Why would someone not upgrade?

[erdunbar]

Originally posted by AdmiralAK
He he
Personally I have my favorite applications assigned to the F-keys. so that I can press F1, F2, F3, F4 etc and without even moving my mouse I can launch my favorite app. This is the way I do it, which is different from your way, which is OK, and very normal (I would be very afraid if everyone did everything the exact same way I do it).

In OS X apple has provided the dock to launch and monito apps. Yes I do believe that the dock has some basic flaws like for example it tries to do too much. I use the dock as a quicklaunch for my most common items, and for my second most common I have put the aliases in my favorites folder. (which is under the apple menu I think).

I think a computer is a big hunk of clay that you have to mold. Most users just use it as a hunk of clay, others make it into a vase, or a cup, or a bowl or a whatever. It depends on one's needs and experties, and of course preferences

It's good to have options so everyone can be pleased (well almost everyone, there will always exist oddballs out there LOL )

In a recent article that was linked to off one of these messages (can't remember where or who), the #1 complaint Apple had on OS X was its slow response time. Guess what #2 was? The dock! It seems people aren't in love with it as much as I was led to believe (much to my relief). The concept is good, but amusingly enough, when I'm in OS X I've already done as much as possible to OS 9 it by adding the ASM 1.1.1 and to have the dock in the upper, right side of the screen. It's made me quite a bit happier and makes OS X more liveable (though, the slow response times are still holding me back from switching... going from OS X to OS 9.0.4 feels like going from a 68040 to a G4 to me). Though, there is still one dock behaviour that drives me NUTS. Whenever I move a file over an app icon in the dock to open it, the dock zooms to accomodate the new icon, rather than highlight the app icon <grumble>.

Now that needs to be turned off. Once you have it customized, it should be a static item there to make your work space more efficient. Dynamic customization is handy when you're setting things up, but is a pain when you're WORKING!!!

As for all those features you mentioned, I use *all* for different purposes. All 15 F-keys launch programmes, URLs and folders (both network and local) that I use all the time or, are VERY important to me. My Apple Menu items are for control panels, less oftenly used apps, or apps with names I tend to forget so I can't use OS 8's find (I despise Sherlock I & II because it's so damn slow and has a clunky interface).

Amusingly, GraphicConverter is the fifth-most frequently used application on my computer (after #1 Outlook Express, #2 Explorer, #3 BBEdit Lite, #4 iCab/Netscape), yet I don't have an F-key assigned, and I don't have an Apple menu item for it because all I do is drop files on the desktop icon. Similarly, I don't have an icon to Explorer or Outlook Express *anywhere* on my desktop or in my Apple Menu items, but I *always* use the F-keys to launch them.

What Apple did with the dock is ditch *all* of these time-saving, highly convenient, HIGHLY PERSONALISED items (another person using my computer tends to have to use command-F to find apps because I have my computer personalized to MY desires (that's why I'm a Mac user and not a Windozer)). In the dock we've got an inept app switcher, a confused app launcher, and a screen real-estate waster!!!

Whatever possessed Apple to change things too much is beyond my understanding. But, if they don't fix it they're going to have troubles convincing people to switch to OS X rather than to Windoze whatever.

Anyway, Apple will eventually figure it out (or else they'll become yet another clone manufacturer

L8r, Eric.

 

[Myke]

I agree entirely with what erdunbar is saying ...and I'd just like to add that the dock is not a suitable place to put shortcuts to your apps because a) if you have a lot of them you'll crowd it and b) my experience with OSX beta is that they don't stay there.

You can add them in as you work of course ...but then it's back to square one when you re-boot.

Whilst I hate the look of the Windows 'start' bar, there's speed and logic to it. You can even customise it to be drop down instead of pop up.

Sorry, but it is MUCH more convenient than the set-up in OSX. Whatever were Apple thinking of?

It's a good point erdunbar makes too, about customising. I really dislike this 'play by our rules or not at all' approach that Apple is adopting. It is what has put me off Windows.

The glory of the Mac OS up to now is that it has been customisable, that it is tolerant of doing things in different ways. It doesn't force the user to accept one set of operational 'rules', so it can be adapted to suit work styles and personal taste - up to a point, anyway.

When I see the 'illegal operation' error box in Windows that sums up for me most of why I don't like it. Now in OSX, Apple is going down the same road. Is this more to do with sociology than technology? Is the computer industry in the hands of suited control freaks?

Well, big assumptions and wild generalisations aside, what it comes down to is, that I don't see why Apple needed to create a more inflexible, less ergonomic GUI, and at a stroke undermine its advantage over Windows.

But it seems Mr Jobs isn't listening ....

 

[AdmiralAK]

I personally want the F keys back so that I can assign apps to them

 

[owl_luvr]

I've got pieces of OS X Beta still on my iMac DV SE/400 & when I try to delete them, an error message says 'OS X Beta cannot be put in the Trash' or some such thing. I just got finished formatting my hard drive because of this. If there's no way to remove the (now completely empty and inactive) System--->Library--->Core Services folders, I'm afraid I'm stuck.

 

[jdog]

Originally posted by Myke

Whilst I hate the look of the Windows 'start' bar, there's speed and logic to it. You can even customise it to be drop down instead of pop up.

Sorry, but it is MUCH more convenient than the set-up in OSX. Whatever were Apple thinking of?

You can drag your Applications folder to the Dock, then click and hold (also command click or something) to open it up just like the Windows Start menu.

I like the dock. My linux setup was almost exactly the same. I even had the Gnome panel floating in the center like the dock is. A lot of Xfree86 window managers will bring up a menu of apps (that you can customize) when you right click on the desktop. This makes it very conveinent as you can open apps no matter where the cursor is. Apple should look into implementing someting of this nature into X.

-jdog

 

[erdunbar]

Originally posted by jdog


You can drag your Applications folder to the Dock, then click and hold (also command click or something) to open it up just like the Windows Start menu.

I like the dock. My linux setup was almost exactly the same. I even had the Gnome panel floating in the center like the dock is. A lot of Xfree86 window managers will bring up a menu of apps (that you can customize) when you right click on the desktop. This makes it very conveinent as you can open apps no matter where the cursor is. Apple should look into implementing someting of this nature into X.

-jdog

Ah, the joys of coming from Linux. As time passes more OS X users will be former Mac OS 9 users, and, unlike Linuxers we tend to be a more picky lot and demand a little more from our software's interface (considering OS X is an OS for which you have to pay and Linux is free, and its GUIs are at the whim of the developer entirely).

I'm starting to like OS X for the [slow, but stable] multitasking (too bloody slow vs. what OS 9 offered) and the ultra-stable OS (protected memory is definitely a nice feature), but the dock still hasn't grown on me. I'm desperately waiting for Apple to fix it and/or a third party to improve it. It's very unsatisfactory as an app launcher, and still sucks rocks as an app switcher (I've given it the better part of a month and have it customized as much as I can) (the behaviour to create a new window whenever I click on an app drives me insane because it reduces the smoothness of my work... I rarely, *if ever* create a new window if one isn't open. I switch to an app to OPEN a doc or do something else, not create one).

BTW the Start menu in Windows is far-far ahead of sticking a folder in the dock. It's FAST to respond (no delay before it pops up (EVEN ON A 486)), you don't have to do anything, it's already there, and it functions as a better app launcher than the dock's push-buttons!!!

BTW Unlike the Windoze task-bar, it is NOT possible to move the dock to another part of the screen. I say this knowing about pinning and orientation because APPLE's default does not allow this. Unless you go out and look for the hacks you won't know about the ability to move the dock to another place on the screen (which makes it a lot more usable as an app switcher than having it down at the bottom of the screen where my cursor rarely comes).




Productivity wise I still berate OS X's GUI designers. It's still a joke GUI when compared to Mac OS 9, or even Windows (yuck), and, well, I guess vs. most Linux GUIs it's already better. I use far FAR fewer programmes in OS X than in 9 because multitasking is slow as molasses on a cold day in January (in the northern hemisphere... my apologies to any Aussies), it's tough to open apps (no F-keys [yet], desktop icons are difficult because to have recognisable icons you need 'em so big that you can only keep a few on the desktop, the Finder is slow so using icons in dock and/or desktop with drag-and-drop is *less* efficient than going through the hassle of the open dialogue, there's no Apple menu (what's this system crap in there... ALL of that should be a sub-menu), and virtual memory SUCKS (and that's on a G3/450 with 192 MB RAM).

Sorry 'bout that, I'm sure some people are tired of my rants. I sure am!

'nother rant: why didn't Apple disable the #@$LK)*( help key in OS X??? It's the worst key ever placed on a keyboard!!!

UGH. @#$)(* dock. I was just trying to switch to QuickTime to turn on the radio stream and couldn't find QuickTime player (open) without having to scan up and down and up and down over the icons (with all their triangles to add to the visual clutter). If the dock was supposed to *improve* work efficiency why did Apple make it so difficult to look at and determine what apps are open? (& the zooming effect is very annoying to deal with if you turn it on to see the icons... it's not a solution, it's part of the problem).

The short and long of it is: I HATE THE DOCK. I'm certainly not the only one (considering it's the second most complained about item to Apple after slow response times). I'm going to predict that Apple will have to re-introduce the app switcher menu, perhaps give people the *option* to use the dock as only an app switcher (plus, improve the colour scheme of the dock to make icons stand out rather than fade into the blue translucent background).

All those dock lovers out there, don't fear, I don't want it to go away, I simply want it to become more Mac-like rather than Linux/NeXT/Windoze-like (leave, the existing dock configuration as an option for those who like it, and give Mac OS 1-9 users the option to use their computers in the way most productive for them).

Eric.

 

[RacerX]

"BTW the Start menu in Windows is far-far ahead of sticking a folder in the dock. It's FAST to respond (no delay before it pops up (EVEN ON A 486)), you don't have to do anything, it's already there, and it functions as a better app launcher than the dock's push-buttons!!!"

I see you haven't used Windows 2000 on a system slower than 400 MHz, the fade in and fade out makes OS X look quite fast.

"BTW Unlike the Windoze task-bar, it is NOT possible to move the dock to another part of the screen. I say this knowing about pinning and orientation because APPLE's default does not allow this. Unless you go out and look for the hacks you won't know about the ability to move the dock to another place on the screen (which makes it a lot more usable as an app switcher than having it down at the bottom of the screen where my cursor rarely comes)."

From what I've heard, when all of the new functionality was added to the dock, this was one part that Apple wasn't sure about. They went with a fix position to cut down on the number of "new" things that the user would have to learn. The fact of the matter is that most of the funtions that we have with the apple menu today were in fact hacks of the past that Apple made as part of the actual system in later versions. The original apple menu had far less to do than the current OS X version. And originally Rhapsody's apple menu was a fix (unchangable) feature that was hacked be some developers. Apple then added the AppleMenuOptions.app for the final release of Server 1.0 (and then lost it again some where between DP2 and DP3).

"All those dock lovers out there, don't fear, I don't want it to go away, I simply want it to become more Mac-like rather than Linux/NeXT/Windoze-like (leave, the existing dock configuration as an option for those who like it, and give Mac OS 1-9 users the option to use their computers in the way most productive for them). "

I miss the apple menu and app menu as much as the next person, and it doesn't help to work on MacOS Classic and Server 1.x systems all day and then jump back to Mac OS X. I do find your dock woes funny though. I woundn't have more than a couple apps stored in the dock at all time, the rest are aliases in my "apple folder" with is set up just like my apple menu on my other systems. I guess I'm not one of those people who needs to have EVERY app I own in the dock for display.

Remember, at this point, no one is making you use Mac OS X. Unless you use WebObjects, Create, TIFFany, and other OS X-only apps, you don't need to put yourself through all this pain and suffering. And even then, there are versions of most of those for Mac OS X Server 1.x anyway, which feels more Classic Mac-like. If you are going to continue, you should try the idea of folder setup like your apple menu in classic (you could even use the apple menu folder from OS 9's system folder if you like). Just a thought.

 

[jdog]

erdunbar,

In hoping to prevent you from an untimely heart-attack, I would suggest you not use OSX anymore.

Seriously though, I would guess the majority of those who are not happy with the dock are long-time Mac users whoare familiar with OS9 and < .

I do resent your implication that those who use Linux/Windows do not demand a quality GUI. And like it or not, those who use MacOS are at the "whim of the developer." Where as with Linux, if you are not happy with your GUI, you can develop your own. You have obviously not had any expierence with *nix running X windows.

Using MacOS9 is about as exciting as staring at a yaks' ass for 3 days. What is more boring than that god-awfull gray GUI? While Windows is not more exciting, OSX is a very visually pleasing environment in which to work.

I do agree with you in regards to the app switching. That is very confusing. Also, does OSX let you "shade" windows like OS9? (By shading I mean rolling up to just the title bar).

-jdog

BTW, Please don't take this as a flame, i am just partaking in healthy debate.

 

[RacerX]

I know I got this fourth or fifth hand, but any one who has worked closely with X-Windows should get a laugh out of it.

X-Windows: ...A mistake carried out to perfection.

X-Windows: ...Dissatisfaction guaranteed.

X-Windows: ...Don't get frustrated without it.

X-Windows: ...Even your dog won't like it.

X-Windows: ...Flaky and built to stay that way.

X-Windows: ...Complex nonsolutions to simple nonproblems.

X-Windows: ...Flawed beyond belief.

X-Windows: ...Form follows malfunction.

X-Windows: ...Garbage at your fingertips.

X-Windows: ...Ignorance is our most important resource.

X-Windows: ...It could be worse, but it'll take time.

X-Windows: ...It could happen to you.

X-Windows: ...Japan's secret weapon.

X-Windows: ...Let it get in *your* way.

X-Windows: ...Live the nightmare.

X-Windows: ...More than enough rope.

X-Windows: ...Never had it, never will.

X-Windows: ...No hardware is safe.

X-Windows: ...Power tools for power fools.

X-Windows: ...Putting new limits on productivity.

X-Windows: ...Simplicity made complex.

X-Windows: ...The cutting edge of obsolescence.

X-Windows: ...The art of incompetence.

X-Windows: ...The defacto substandard.

X-Windows: ...The first fully modular software disaster.

X-Windows: ...The joke that kills.

X-Windows: ...The problem for your problem.

X-Windows: ...There's got to be a better way.

X-Windows: ...Warn your friends about it.

X-Windows: ...You'd better sit down.

X-Windows: ...You'll envy the dead.

 

[jdog]

LOL

-jdog

 

[AdmiralAK]

HILARIOUS

 

[endian]

Seriously though, I would guess the majority of those who are not happy with the dock are long-time Mac users whoare familiar with OS9 and < .

I've used Macs for 10 years (since 6.0.8) and I *love* the dock. I find that people that don't like OSX are NOT (what I would consider) long time Mac users, and have only started using MacOS >8. OSX is much more like System 6 than it is like later versions. My first thought upon seeing Aqua screenshots was "White backgrounds! No window borders! It looks just like System 6! This is great!"

 

[erdunbar]

Originally posted by jdog
erdunbar,

In hoping to prevent you from an untimely heart-attack, I would suggest you not use OSX anymore.

Aaargh, too late. I didn't make it to the gym today and this is my punishment! Splat.

Seriously though, I would guess the majority of those who are not happy with the dock are long-time Mac users whoare familiar with OS9 and < .

And, to reiterate a point I've reiterated to death, that's the bulk of OS X's target audience.

I do resent your implication that those who use Linux/Windows do not demand a quality GUI. And like it or not, those who use MacOS are at the "whim of the developer." Where as with Linux, if you are not happy with your GUI, you can develop your own. You have obviously not had any expierence with *nix running X windows.

Valid point re: quality GUI, my apologies. I am *grateful* I have no experience running *nix X windows. I'm already frustrated enough with OS X's quirks. There's too much typing and funny behind the screens fiddling required. Whenever I've seen my friend using (& have used his machine) the various flavours of X-Windows all I could think of was a cheap Windoze knock-off that didn't quite succeed. When I accessed a mach shell in my undergrad I didn't mind fiddling with the various settings, but on my WORK computer. Ugh, having to type to get things done is repugnant.

Using MacOS9 is about as exciting as staring at a yaks' ass for 3 days. What is more boring than that god-awfull gray GUI? While Windows is not more exciting, OSX is a very visually pleasing environment in which to work.

Agreed, OS X *looks* prettier, but for me it is functionally a less efficient workplace exactly because the graphics are too much. For example, I can't select text in any web browser (iCab or IE) without having to spend a lot of time looking to see where the text is. I haven't been able to determine a bright text selection colour instead of dull blue or grey. Too fancy, too graphics heavy (which distract from the tasks at hand). You seem to have come from *nix where customization rules even more than in Apple's pre-OS X era. Why is it that [it seems] *nixers are happy defending Apple's poor GUI choices to the death ? (just a shot at the *nix OS X defenders).

I do agree with you in regards to the app switching. That is very confusing. Also, does OSX let you "shade" windows like OS9? (By shading I mean rolling up to just the title bar).

Not as far as I can tell. Another interface failure Apple made with their funny window behaviour (of course, windows appearing over half, but not all of another apps windows is incredibly annoying and beta-like). I'd much rather the Windoze behaviour of hiding the app than sending it to the app switcher (dock piece of @#$!).

-jdog

BTW, Please don't take this as a flame, i am just partaking in healthy debate.
[/B]

Nope, no flame. My apologies if any of my stuff has ended up flaming. I've tried to avoid being personal (with the exception of the *nix shots and will edit anything if it is out-of-place (& someone lets me know).

Eric