Windows "Borrowing" Dock from OS X

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doofy10

Registered
The next generation of Windows will include what is called a "task-shelf." The new Windows operating system is code named "Longhorn." The borrowed dock-styled "task-shelf" will enable the Windows user to minimizes windows, doucments, and any other file to the bar on the left. When the window is minimized or brought back to the desktop, a genie-like effect is used. There are also many translucent similarities between "Longhorn" and OS X. See it for your self at:
http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/longhorn_preview.asp

And for a video of it in action:
http://msbetas.net/longhorn/files/longhorn.zip
-Doofy
 
LOL! you guys Typically Jump on the "bandwagon", have you watched the Clip?! It's still a taskbar, merely Docked to the left, and Stretched to make it more visible, this can be done with the current Taskbar! That to can Contain minimized windows, Applications and other stuff, so thats nothing new! ...And this Genie effect?! Well, the taskbar already have an effect, for when Windows Minimize, so its not that much of a Development, Especially if you were a PC User, and knew of Stardocks "Windows FX 2.0 Alpha" Which Offer's a host of effects such as Shadowing, amongst a host of other neat things like minimizing effects!

UNLESS Either Apple or Microsoft, take a HUGE Step forward, there will ALWAY be simularities between the OS's, something neither can help!



NeYo

/edit ...Just to let you guys know, the Current Taskbar now Can Actually have Applications Running INSIDE the taskbar itself! Accompany some of the "Longhorn" themes, you may see Windows Messenger Buddy List Displayed inside, or Notepad for Example! ...it appears the Taskbar is becoming more and more useful, all the time!
 
Windows 2000 has transparency built into the GUI, it just isn't implemented by MS. They released a utility called TweakUI which allows you to enable it. People can actually write apps for 2000 or XP to take advantage of this as well but tend not to. OS X is based heavily on the NeXT OS GUI, where your beloved Dock came from among other things and built around FreeBSD 3.2. Why isn't anybody crying for Apple to get their own ideas for an OS?

Almost everything borrows design cues from another source today. Cars, movies, buildings, music and so on all do.

One reason MS hasn't changed their GUI much since Windows 95 is that it is important for people to feel familiar with their product and beable to identify it by just a glance, this is a great strength. There was an outcry by the Mac community when OS X was released. People were pleading with Apple to make it more like OS 9 and in some ways, Apple complied in 10.1 and even more so in Jaguar.
 
Originally posted by azosx
OS X is based heavily on the NeXT OS GUI, where your beloved Dock came from among other things and built around FreeBSD 3.2. Why isn't anybody crying for Apple to get their own ideas for an OS?
Click to expand...

Perhaps because Apple BOUGHT NEXTSTEP. And because OS X IS NEXTSTEP. Mac OS X has almost nothing to do with the "Mac OS" as it is traditionally know. Mac OS X is NEXTSTEP 5.0.



One reason MS hasn't changed their GUI much since Windows 95 is that it is important for people to feel familiar with their product and beable to identify it by just a glance, this is a great strength. There was an outcry by the Mac community when OS X was released. People were pleading with Apple to make it more like OS 9 and in some ways, Apple complied in 10.1 and even more so in Jaguar.
Click to expand...

Yet they DO change their UI. Almost all the time. I think more so than Apple (though X is a big change for 9 users). And for non-obvious reasons.
 
Originally posted by azosx
Windows 2000 has transparency built into the GUI, it just isn't implemented by MS. They released a utility called TweakUI which allows you to enable it. People can actually write apps for 2000 or XP to take advantage of this as well but tend not to. OS X is based heavily on the NeXT OS GUI, where your beloved Dock came from among other things and built around FreeBSD 3.2. Why isn't anybody crying for Apple to get their own ideas for an OS?
Click to expand...

DO you mean the menu fading or real transparency? I don't see that in TweakUI. Where is it? And btw, TweakUI has been around since Win95. :) Did wonders for it, too.
 
I'm looking forward to this release, my Wintel buddies will go crazy and brag of all the WONDERFUL things Longhorn can do...these will of course be the ones who say Mac OS X Dock suck donkey butt today...

I once tried selling off Fire as a reason to buy a Mac cause it could connect to 5 IMs at the same time, everybody said they would NEVER use an app like that...they came to me a month ago having discovered Trillian and told me of how great it was and that it could connect to several IMs at the same time...
Here's my reaction: :D
 
Hah! I've ALWAYS had the Windows taskbar on one side, ever since Windows 98. Whenever I had to use a PC (or if I wanted to), the first thing I would do was to put the Taskbar to the right edge (or, in rare cases, to the left). Actually, I've done it because of a preliminary Rhapsody Unified Interface Guidelines PDF, which showed 'The Backdrop' (that's what the Dock was called then) on the right edge.
 
Perhaps because Apple BOUGHT NEXTSTEP. And because OS X IS NEXTSTEP. Mac OS X has almost nothing to do with the "Mac OS" as it is traditionally know. Mac OS X is NEXTSTEP 5.0.
Click to expand...

I believe the last released verion of NeXTStep was 3.3. I don't know where you got the ludacris idea OS X is "NeXTStep 5.0". OS X is based on FreeBSD and Mach 3.0 technology. So buying a company and borrowing ideas is ok? That still somehow keeps you original? My point was that everyone borrows design cues from some other source, even your beloved Apple.

Yet they DO change their UI. Almost all the time. I think more so than Apple (though X is a big change for 9 users). And for non-obvious reasons.
Click to expand...

XP is basically the same as Windows 95, except now neon blue and bubbly. Yes, it has many new features but the UI has changed very little. My Computer, Recycle Bin, Taskbar, Launchbar, Start, Control Panel, and so on are all essentially the same since 95. Perhaps you are confused on the meaning of UI or GUI? Any user of Windows 95 or above can easily become familiar with XP. The only reason I mentioned it is that Anti-MS like to comment on how antiquated the GUI has become, where as MS sees the lack of change as one of their greatest strenghts in the OS market. Once glance and you know it's Windows.

DO you mean the menu fading or real transparency? I don't see that in TweakUI. Where is it? And btw, TweakUI has been around since Win95. Did wonders for it, too.
Click to expand...

Real transparency is built into Windows 2000. That is how programs such as WindowBlinds are able to add transparency to 2000 and XP applications. It may be built into WIndows NT 4.0 as well. Also, anyone who wishes could write transparent apps for Windows 2000 and XP. Some do exist. Transparency is not built into 95 or 98. Perhaps that's why you do not see the option. Or maybe it was only in XP.
 
I think part of the reason why people feel that NeXT was Apple's "birthright" is because the majority of people who wrote NeXTSTEP were.. *tad dum* the original Mac OS developers. Also, correctly or not, the Macintosh was considered to be Jobs' baby, so it's kinda logical that the new Macs should be based on his other techno baby.

Mac OS X is actually based on OpenStep 5.x. OpenStep was based on the Mach kernel and BSD, whereas now it's based on the Mach kernal and FreeBSD. I believe the licensing cost of BSD actually contributed to the high cost of the original OpenStep implementation (not to mention the DisplayPS cost too).
 
There never was an OpenStep 5.x either. But in fact Rhapsody DR1 called itself OpenStep 5.1 when you used 'uname -a' in Terminal. Rhapsody DR2, I believe, said: 'Rhapsody 5.1' already.

Whatever: Mac OS X, as we know it today, is a clear evolution: NeXT-Step, OpenStep, Rhapsody, Mac OS X Server, Mac OS X. Rhapsody DR1 and newer for PowerPC contained a 'BlueBox' (Classic). Mac OS X 10 (and its Developer Previews 1 to 4 plus the Public Beta) was the first version to contain the Carbon APIs, which allow changed and recompiled classic applications to use the advanced features of Mac OS X (this is Apple-speak, of course).

The original plan was to take OpenStep and give it a Mac OS 8 Platinum look & feel. This plan was changed between Mac OS X DP3 & Mac OS X DP4 (where Aqua first appeared).

Analog to 'Rhapsody 5.1' (OpenStep 5.1), Mac OS X today claims 'Darwin 5.5' if you type 'uname -a' in Terminal. Jaguar builds show Darwin at version 6.0.
 
Originally posted by azosx
XP is basically the same as Windows 95, except now neon blue and bubbly. Yes, it has many new features but the UI has changed very little. My Computer, Recycle Bin, Taskbar, Launchbar, Start, Control Panel, and so on are all essentially the same since 95. Perhaps you are confused on the meaning of UI or GUI? Any user of Windows 95 or above can easily become familiar with XP. The only reason I mentioned it is that Anti-MS like to comment on how antiquated the GUI has become, where as MS sees the lack of change as one of their greatest strenghts in the OS market. Once glance and you know it's Windows.
Click to expand...

I agree with you that interface-wise, XP is the same as 95. Frankly though, why shouldn't it be? For all of 9X's faults, the interface has always been very convenient. When you know that the interface is not the problem, why change it? Work on what the true problem is, like stability.
 
XP is the same as 95. Frankly though, why shouldn't it be? For all of 9X's faults, the interface has always been very convenient. When you know that the interface is not the problem, why change it?
Click to expand...

thats funny the interface of windows is the biggest reason i never have owned any wintel platforms i happen to find the windows gui very very inconvenient. In sweden we have an old saying "smaken är som baken , Delad!" translated it means something like "personal taste is like the bottom ,separated!" But then again we also have to live in coexistence with the polar bears!:D
 
Neyo,

You're right. They gave a new look to the taskbar. It has a much different look for the shortcuts and the effects are different but it's mostly the same.

I think I like the dock better. It looks nicer and the magnification is nice. Also, the way things shrink is nice when you have a lot of apps open.

Still, I'm not sure what they could have done that would be much different. Most of the systems I use have something like that. (KDE, OSX, Gnome, Windows)

Vanguard
 
Originally posted by azosx
So buying a company and borrowing ideas is ok? That still somehow keeps you original?
Click to expand...

No original...but at least honest. Apple wasn't borrowing the ideas. They bought them. That is the point about Microsoft. Even if Apple wasn't not beeing original, at least they were being legal and ethical about "borrowing".

BTW...there is "borrowing" (stealing) and "borrowing" (borrowing). The difference MAY be subtle...but there IS a difference.
 
Apple should start a lawsuit against Microsoft. They would have to play their cards right though...
from apple-history.com
The Graphical User Interface (GUI)

The GUI had its roots in the 1950s but was not developed until the 1970s when a group at the Xerox Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) developed the Alto, a GUI-based computer. The Alto was the size of a large desk, and Xerox believed it unmarketable. Jobs took a tour of PARC in 1979, and saw the future of personal computing in the Alto. Although much of the Interface of both the Lisa and the Mac was based (at least intellectually) heavily on the work done at PARC, and many of the engineers there later left to join Apple, much of the Mac OS was written before Job's visit to PARC. When Jobs accused Bill Gates of Microsoft of stealing the GUI from Apple and using it in Windows 1.0, Gates fired back:

No, Steve, I think its more like we both have a rich neighbor named Xerox, and you broke in to steal the TV set, and you found out I'd been there first, and you said. "Hey that's no fair! I wanted to steal the TV set!

The fact that both Apple and Microsoft had gotten the idea of the GUI from Xerox put a major dent in Apple's lawsuit against Microsoft over the GUI several years later. Although much of The Mac OS is original, it was similar enough to the old Alto GUI to make a "look and feel" suit against Microsoft dubious.
Click to expand...
...Business. :mad:
 
Originally posted by ricky
No, Steve, I think its more like we both have a rich neighbor named Xerox, and you broke in to steal the TV set, and you found out I'd been there first, and you said. "Hey that's no fair! I wanted to steal the TV set!

The fact that both Apple and Microsoft had gotten the idea of the GUI from Xerox put a major dent in Apple's lawsuit against Microsoft over the GUI several years later. Although much of The Mac OS is original, it was similar enough to the old Alto GUI to make a "look and feel" suit against Microsoft dubious.
Click to expand...

This is revisionist history. First, the implication here is that Microsoft was there first. Nope. Second, that Apple "stole" from Xerox. Nope. Apple "paid" Xerox in Apple stock (a valuable deal at the time) for the right to come in, ask questions, take notes, get ideas. Third, the Lisa (or Mac) systems were actually quite different in their final implementation from the Xerox stuff. True that they got some ideas...but Apple took those ideas much further. Microsoft? They were busily copying the Macintosh toolbox from the day they got a Macintosh prototype. There is "borrowing" and there is "borrowing".

See http://www.mackido.com/Interface/ui_history.html and http://www.mackido.com/Interface/ui_horn1.html for details from someone that was there.
 
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