ya'll gotta relax
- Thread starter chornbe
- Start date
What do you think Steve Jobs asked IBM when IBM said they could deliver a, mmh, 2.5 GHz chip in June 2004? If I take your word, he said "oh, that's a drag" and didn't ask any further. Same thing this year, when IBM happily produced a 2.7 GHz chip? You think Apple has NO MORE information on IBMs roadmap than we do? Truly?
The beautiful thing about intel, pjeski, is that Apple doesn't HAVE to be anything to intel. Intel will go on delivering more and better CPUs. Not only because they have competition "at home" (AMD and others), but also because they need to keep things alive in order to survive. Apple can buy their chips. Apple can buy AMDs chips. Apple even has the option - anytime! - to go back to IBM, should they produce a chip that's better suited for Macs. intel does _not_ give precedence to any Dell or HP around. Intel wants to sell the most chips possible, and any PC maker and Apple who chooses intel over AMD is good PR for intel, so they're constantly trying to convince PC makers and Apple that they're the best choice available for now and the future.
To say Steve's just emotional and foolish is, well, emotional and foolish.
(Sorry, had to...) If you really think the CEO of Apple is an emotional and foolish person, you should look at the past five years of Apple's success. In hard times. With the PowerPC often being too slow and/or not even available in quantity. You think that was all lucky punches? Think again. Do you?
The beautiful thing about intel, pjeski, is that Apple doesn't HAVE to be anything to intel. Intel will go on delivering more and better CPUs. Not only because they have competition "at home" (AMD and others), but also because they need to keep things alive in order to survive. Apple can buy their chips. Apple can buy AMDs chips. Apple even has the option - anytime! - to go back to IBM, should they produce a chip that's better suited for Macs. intel does _not_ give precedence to any Dell or HP around. Intel wants to sell the most chips possible, and any PC maker and Apple who chooses intel over AMD is good PR for intel, so they're constantly trying to convince PC makers and Apple that they're the best choice available for now and the future.
To say Steve's just emotional and foolish is, well, emotional and foolish.
(Sorry, had to...) If you really think the CEO of Apple is an emotional and foolish person, you should look at the past five years of Apple's success. In hard times. With the PowerPC often being too slow and/or not even available in quantity. You think that was all lucky punches? Think again. Do you?Fryke, it;s clear that you are pro-intel. I own stock in intel. I do not care that intel will be supplying Apple with chips because it will make no discernable difference to the bottom line. If you've noticed, the news hasn't caused a rush on intel. It doesn't matter what Jobs knows that we don't. He still cannot see the future.
As far as switching back at any time, surely you know better than that. Developers are going to have to put forth alot of effort into the conversion. Unless Apple switches back before the PPC is phased out (like the 68000) and no one is making "universal binaries" anymore, the switch back will be just as painful as the switch to intel.
As far as Jobs success, the "past five years of Apples success" was purely the iPod. Apples stock price went up when that dynamo hit the market. Look at a five year chart of Appple's prices. If it weren't for the iPod, do you think Apple would have had the price spike in the last year? Do you?...
Yes, the iPod was a lucky punch.
As far as switching back at any time, surely you know better than that. Developers are going to have to put forth alot of effort into the conversion. Unless Apple switches back before the PPC is phased out (like the 68000) and no one is making "universal binaries" anymore, the switch back will be just as painful as the switch to intel.
As far as Jobs success, the "past five years of Apples success" was purely the iPod. Apples stock price went up when that dynamo hit the market. Look at a five year chart of Appple's prices. If it weren't for the iPod, do you think Apple would have had the price spike in the last year? Do you?...
Yes, the iPod was a lucky punch.
Lt Major Burns
"Dicky" Charlteston-Burns
no, the ipod only really took off in the last 18 months. when itunes 4.5 came out for windows. no, the biggest thing to jump start this was steve jobs. his business sense revolutionised the company. the iMac was his idea. it sold a million units. the "lets make macs look good" was his idea. jobs came back in 1997-1998. look at the product lines since then - the B+W g3 (sexy), the imac, the new keyboards and mice, the metal powerbooks, the ibooks! The gorgeous displays! the fact that he consolidated the macs line up to (basically) consumer desktop, consumer laptop, pro desktop, pro laptop helped a lot. steve jobs turned a failing company into one that is very, very strong. 3% market share does't sound much, but they are, after all the biggest windows-independant computer manufacturer.
And what, coincidentally Apple's share price started climbing 18 months ago, but it wasn't related to the iPod? Don't kid yourself, man. I like alot of the things that Jobs has done. But that does not make him infallable and this is clearly a mistake.
Whatever you believe, when the G5 came out it was much better than anything intel had. Maybe intel will be ahead on this next generation, but another generation of RISC processors will come out and it will likely be better than intel's offerings. But now, no matter what happens, the Macintosh will never be better than the competition (better looking, maybe) because everybody will have the same chips.
Whatever you believe, when the G5 came out it was much better than anything intel had. Maybe intel will be ahead on this next generation, but another generation of RISC processors will come out and it will likely be better than intel's offerings. But now, no matter what happens, the Macintosh will never be better than the competition (better looking, maybe) because everybody will have the same chips.
fjdouse
UNIX - Live Free or Die
I just hope we don't inherit that nasty 'CPU insecurity' that PC users have..
"New processor! Must have, must have.. Extra 5MHz, must have, must have!!"
The Mac platform (to me at least) as always been about choosing (and paying the premium for it) a great piece of kit to serve for a good number of years, more of an investment. I hope the transitory, disposable, throw-away economy of the PC doesn't rub off on us (although I detect the traces here among some already).
"New processor! Must have, must have.. Extra 5MHz, must have, must have!!"
The Mac platform (to me at least) as always been about choosing (and paying the premium for it) a great piece of kit to serve for a good number of years, more of an investment. I hope the transitory, disposable, throw-away economy of the PC doesn't rub off on us (although I detect the traces here among some already).
fjdouse said:
Gosh, how I love living outside the mold. I have several computers in my house:
iBook g4 1.33
eMachines 500mhz pIII running Linux
no-name clone with PIII 866 running Win2k
Dell p4 1.8ghz (3 yrs old) running Linux (removed the Win2k partition)
I don't have anything because it's the biggest, bestest, fastest, shiniest - I have them because they fit the purpose for the price I paid. I paid more for my iBook than for the Dell, but it was worth it for the portability, the sexiness, the dvd burner, the OS and... yes, iPhoto is one of the reasons I purchased a Mac.
Yeah, the generalized populace you speak of is out there, but not all of us fit it
ShalomOrchard
Registered
Come on Guys, Software is't the only thing that makes a difference. The hardware, and especially the CPU is important too! The limited stack space on the Intel CPUs
is the cause of half the bugs and security flaws on Windows machines. The Motorola architecture has *always* been superior!
Get a Grip on the Hardware!
Jim.
is the cause of half the bugs and security flaws on Windows machines. The Motorola architecture has *always* been superior!
Get a Grip on the Hardware!
Jim.
Between "every month a faster CPU" and "200 MHz increase once a year" are many little steps that Apple could take. What I _want_ from Apple is that when I'm ready to buy a Mac, I can get the CPUs that are available. I hope that we won't see times when Sony, Dell et al. offer notebooks that simply are faster than the PowerBooks, just because Apple doesn't feel like updating their lines. I hope Apple will create a PowerBook that will automatically inherit the newest chips of the same family as soon as they become available. Not because I'd want to upgrade my PB every month, but so I can safely buy at any given time and know that what I get from Apple is what they can get from intel, processor-wise.
Jason
Eyebrow Moderator
AFAIK the top of the line G5 is comparible, not leaps and bounds better than the top of the line x86 chips. Apple gets a bit more power out of it because of the dual setup and the support of the system and certain applications for that. IMHO Apple switching to Intel is a smart business move. The speed and future speed will not be affected negatively. Most likely, what will happen, is that apple will now have systems just as fast as competitors, no longer relying on IBM or Motorola to try and play keep up. So now Apple can concentrate on marketing a superior OS and other products instead of doing damage control marketing about lagging computer hardware. PPC is faster than P4 mhz for mhz, but when the PPC is 33-40% behind, you got to wonder just how much faster is it mhz for mhz and does it truly make up for it. My guess is, its no real world difference. So would you rather have the same performance and have to defend lower mhz all the time, or same performance and no one questioning your numbers? I prefer the latter, myself.
Jason said:
This is true. In the world of editing, which is extremely processor intensive, the G5 is not so fast as to stand out. If it really had that big a performance advantage, I wouldn't have so much trouble convincing colleagues to switch
I think from the Keynote speech it is obvious that Steve was a bit peeved at the lack of a 3GHz processor & the lack of a G5 Powerbook, but this was not the major issue. Apple have obviously looked at what is about to happen in the devlopment of Processors and found Intel to be ready to move up a step while IBM do nowt. And that's the real issue, the G5 is up there with (maybe slightly ahead of) the current range of x86 chips, but they obviously have strong reason to believe that Intel are about to leave PPC standing.
RGrphc2
...InSaNe...
All i know is I want to see Benchmarks between the Fastest Intel Mac and the Dual 2.7.
On another note do you think Apple will be effected by this annoucement? A lot of people think the osborn effect is going to come into play, and that is something i don't want to happen to the company, i would cry if that did.
"Osborne Effect," a term that describes the fate of the computer pioneer Adam Osborne whose firm went bankrupt when he announced a successor to his pioneering portable computer before it was available.
On another note do you think Apple will be effected by this annoucement? A lot of people think the osborn effect is going to come into play, and that is something i don't want to happen to the company, i would cry if that did.
"Osborne Effect," a term that describes the fate of the computer pioneer Adam Osborne whose firm went bankrupt when he announced a successor to his pioneering portable computer before it was available.
There *IS* no intel Mac for one thing (only the devkit, which isn't built for performance), and the PowerMac will probably even be updated once at least before going intel. So those "benchmarks" (the most futile thing in computing) can't really be done until sometime in 2007.
About Osborne: I think Apple _will_ feel an effect. But they won't go bankrupt because of it. Also: They're bringin' out products soon that will attract buyers. (And nobody stops buying iPods...)
About Osborne: I think Apple _will_ feel an effect. But they won't go bankrupt because of it. Also: They're bringin' out products soon that will attract buyers. (And nobody stops buying iPods...)