Microsoft Office v.X License Agreement

IceDogg25

MacAddict
TO ALL USERS OF MICROSOFT OFFICE V.X for OS X--
I bought Microsoft Word v.X and installed it on the family iBook. Then I installed it on my iMac. A few minutes into using Word on the iMac, an error message popped up on my screen. It said "You have exceeded the amount of users that can use Microsoft Word. It states this in the License Agreement. Word will now quit." I asked a technician at my local computer store what was the deal. He said that you can't install any Microsoft Office programs on more than 2 computers, due to the License Agreement.
The license agreement is the text when you are installing a program that says, "PLEASE READ CAREFULLY". Nobody reads that stuff. Obviously I didn't. When running Microsoft Office 2001 in OS 9, you could install it on as much computers as you wanted to, even though it says that you can't in the License Agreement. As of the release of Mac OS X, all of Microsoft Office v.X programs will automatically quit when installed on 2 computers.
How does Microsoft know that you have it on 2 computers? If you have an Internet Connection, when you connect to the internet it sends a message to them. The reason they do this, is because of the fear of users pirating their software. Any input on this topic?
 
its not sending information to microsoft. it just looks for two installs on the same LAN. lots of software from MS and adobe does this.

 
Thanks. I also heard that you can purchase Microsoft Licenses from MS directly. DO you think that would be better?
 
The latest office products scan your local subnet for other instances of office running on different computers with the same serial number.

MS allows you to install it on up to 2 computers, but only one may use it at the same time(pretty stupid, I know).

 
I realize this is an old post, but I was shocked to see some of the replies.

I dont understand why anyone in their right minds would actually help someone steal software. This guy apparently buys one copy of everything and installs it everywhere he wants.

To give him instructions to steal, whether its MS Word or my sons RealBasic chat program for a buck, is just plain wrong.

Dont get me wrong, I cant stand the fact that the vendors dont trust us to do the right thing, but its guys like him and anyone who helps him that put us in this position.

Please dont do it.

Mikey :D
 
Yes, please dis-regard the fact that this gentleman (IceDog25) paid several hundred dollars for MS Office. Sure he can have it on two different computers, but if he wants to run Word at the same time force him to pay hundreds of more dollars!!!! You are all pirates!!!!

:rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by themacko
Yes, please dis-regard the fact that this gentleman (IceDog25) paid several hundred dollars for MS Office. Sure he can have it on two different computers, but if he wants to run Word at the same time force him to pay hundreds of more dollars!!!! You are all pirates!!!!

:rolleyes:

My thoughts exactly. Thanks... ;)

I'm in a similar situation. I've got OfficeX installed on my G4 desktop and my iBook. I'm the only one using these machines, but if I forget to shut down Excel on my desktop, I can't run Word on my iBook. I'm not about to pay for a second copy, so the little port-blocker rule is quite handy. I've recently noticed that Photoshop and VPC do the same thing. I don't know if a similar port blocker rule would work, but if I find it, I'm gonna use it.

If that makes me a pirate, well, fine. I'm a pirate.
 
ok let me tell you something. I'm not pirating the software!! I'm simply installing it on TWO computers and letting them both not run at the same time is ridiculous. I think a bunch of people would agree with me.
 
technicaly that is piracy. If you read the MS agreement you're violating the standards that you say you've read and understand. Even though this is the case I'll be the first to admit when getting my copy of v.X the first thing I did was block the ports that it used. I wasn't about to let MS open up a hole in my system.

Essentialy somebody could render my copy useless by spoofing packets sent by another machine on my subnet and sending them to my machine.

MS has never been known for their security, I'm not about to let them play around on my machine.
 
Hi,

Let me make this insanely clear: this post has nothing to do with themacko. It's not personal. I'm sure he's the swellest guy ever!

But the argument implied by his post always irritates me in my shoes as a software developer. If I understand the implied argument correctly, it is the familiar one of: well, software prices are unjustifiably high, and licensing is unjustifiably restrictive/therefore, piracy is OK.

That argument is faulty. What the (admittedly) unjustifiably high software prices and (admittedly) unjustifiably restrictive licensing *do* permit you to do is, vote against that software by electing not to buy it, and go with a freeware/open source solution instead. Only market pressures like *that* will fix the current bad situation with bad licenses on overpriced software.

Piracy has the opposite effect. It makes licensing truly nutty (look at what Logic does -- a *dongle*? Come on!), and also makes software more expensive (again, take a peek at Logic -- holy mole!).

My 2c.

-0

ps. The argument that convinced me of this position is a parity argument from physical goods. Note how the piracy arguments sound insane when applied to e.g. buying a car (e.g. they're so expensive, BMWs, so, if you can steal one, kudos to you...). I know that software is not a limited resource like iron. But in this instance, I think that disanalogy is unimportant -- software developers' *time* is a limited resource, and the analogy is reinstated.

-0
 
Zero, I understand what you mean. Actually I'm totally against pirating software. I'm quite proud of the fact all the software on my Mac is paid for (well ... minus the mp3's but you can't hold that against me ;) ). That does infact include MS Office and Adobe Photoshop (Elements) which are probably the 2 most-pirated apps out there.

As for my sarcastic reply, I just found it a bit funny that such a big deal was made of this particular issue which, in my opinion, isn't really pirating. It's simply getting the most out of your software by bending the rules. Sure the guy isn't using his software within the exact provisions Microsoft wants him to, but c'mon now this is a really small issue when you campare it too all those fools who just download thousands of dollars of software just because 'they can.'

And I think I am a pretty swell guy, thanks for noticing!
 
Originally posted by ZeroAltitude
The argument that convinced me of this position is a parity argument from physical goods. Note how the piracy arguments sound insane when applied to e.g. buying a car (e.g. they're so expensive, BMWs, so, if you can steal one, kudos to you...). I know that software is not a limited resource like iron. But in this instance, I think that disanalogy is unimportant -- software developers' *time* is a limited resource, and the analogy is reinstated.

No, it isn't reinstated. Car analogies are very common, and most of them only work to a certain point. Let me try and illustrate why.

Yes, it costs something to initially produce the software - the developer(s) spend time and are (ideally) rewarded by getting paid, whether directly through the profits of the software, or a nice salaray from their company. Since we're talking about Microsoft SW here, it's with a salary for those developers, and they tend (rightly) to be one of the highest paid non-executive groups within MS. Along with R&D, marketing, legal, etc., the Office product has an initial production cost that can be very high indeed. I'm just gonna pull numbers out of the air here, but lets say it costs about $2M to produce a verson of Office. The profit margins on Office are extremely high. As an employee, one can go to the MS company store, and buy it for COG (cost of goods), which as I recall (for Office2000) is about $95 (that's the full version, not upgrade), suggesting that the profit margin is somewhere around $200. But, for the sake of our little experiment, let's cut it in half to $100 clear profit for Microsoft on every copy sold. It's simple math now - Microsoft needs to sell just 20,000 (twenty thousand) copies to cover its initial costs. We all know they've sold a helluva lot more than 20 thousand copies. After that 20K copies, it's nearly pure profit for them - all of the development costs are paid, the legal resarch paid, the R&D is paid. Bugfixes still cost something, but that cost is often assigned to the next version of the product, where the cycle starts all over again. The reccuring distribution costs are very low, given the kinds of volume that O2K generates. And, most importantly for our discussion, the developer's costs have been covered (and then some).

BMW, on the other hand, isn't so fortunate. They have fixed material costs for producing each copy of, say, a 330ci that doesn't decrease significantly over the life of the product. Also, the life of a given model of BMW is much longer than the average life of a version of a software package, which means that given the smaller margins on cars, they take much longer to recoup the development costs for a given model.

All of this makes the software industry's profit-model at once very lucrative, and very difficult to nail down. Microsoft (and others) would claim the full retail price of the product as the loss represented in piracy of that product, even if the product was 2 years into its lifecycle. But to claim that pirating Win95 in late 1997 actually cost Microsoft $200, is just plain wrong. It didn't cost them anywhere near that (COG on Win95, IIRC was around $35).

I'm very certain that, by now, the initial costs for Office.X have been paid. I'm not arguing that it makes it right (or legal) to get a pirated copy to run, but if I already have a legit copy, the waters are rather muddier WRT what's right and wrong. The EULA is not that much help in clearing this up:

1. GRANT OF LICENSE. This EULA grants you the following rights:

  • * Applications Software. You may install, use, access, display, run, or otherwise interact with ("RUN") one copy of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT, or any prior version for the same operating system, on a single computer, workstation, terminal, handheld PC, pager, "smart phone," or other digital electronic device ("COMPUTER"). The primary user of the COMPUTER on which the SOFTWARE PRODUCT is installed may make a second copy for his or her exclusive use on a portable computer.
    * Storage/Network Use. You may also store or install a copy of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT on a storage device, such as a network server, used only to RUN the SOFTWARE PRODUCT on your other COMPUTERS over an internal network; however, you must acquire and dedicate a license for each separate COMPUTER on which the SOFTWARE PRODUCT is RUN from the storage device. A license for the SOFTWARE PRODUCT may not be shared or used concurrently on different COMPUTERS.

So, I am allowed to install a copy on my iBook, with it already installed on my desktop machine. But, the license is not supposed to be shared on different computers... Except, I'm not running my copy from a network drive.. Gah.. my head hurts... :)

Seriously, I think what's happening in my case (I'm the only user) is that the technological controls to prevent 2 copies running concurrently are there to prevent 2 separate users running those 2 copies concurrently. But I'm just one person, so maybe it's ok. I doubt, at any rate, that MS is gonna come after me for it.

Sharing it with a housemate, or spouse, child, whatever, again gets pretty grey, and although the EULA doesn't permit it, I don't see that MS is gonna get to twisted in knots about it (assuming they ever found out), with two conditions. The first copy must be legit. And, it must not be shared outside the household. IMO, the moral/ethical standpoint isn't too bad if that's what's going on.

But, I'm not a lawyer, and I won't pay for yours if Microsoft's lawyers disagree... ;)

(sorry for the length of the post, just too much ground to cover)
 
That was a very interesting post. As you mentioned, there are some disanalogies between the physical goods model and the software model. However, it does indeed get very complicated to see how that plays out.

For example, there are costs not only in developing the software. After the developers' time has been spent, there are ongoing costs in providing updates, providing support, and maintaining documents, 'knowledge base articles', etc, that BMW does not do in the same way (maintenance costs are covered to a point, then it's up to you -- true for software too, but there appears to be a difference -- I'd have to think about this more).

However, there are material costs even in publishing software for Microsoft (agreed, trivial amounts), and, there are diminishing costs for developing new BMWs in fact. Factors involved that seems analogous once again are:

*once the factories are up, new model designs are significantly cheaper to make than the first model design;
*new factories make improvements on car design, so production can be cheaper again when you put out cash for infrastructure development;
*if you only were calculating the cost of the production materials e.g steel, fiberglass, leather, etc, you would find the margins on a BMW were high indeed -- the fixed cost of *raw materials* for a new 330ci are trivial compared to the price tag (? I think ?) --
*expansion on the last point: part of the reason the margins appear different on the bottom line is BMW buys expensive parts for their cars -- parts whose margins are very high (the margins on microprocessors can be very high!) --
*notice how this just pushes the questions downstream -- in a way I think will turn out to be analogous to software development costs when building on already existing products that require license or patent fees :).

Anyway. I don't disagree much with anything in that post. However, I think what you showed _isn't_ that the analogy _isn't reinstated_, but that there may be a final difference in the margins for software development. (a disanalogy would have to be something like, there are limited resources in one model, but not in the other; or, a whole category of cost in one model that isn't in the other; or, did I miss the disanalogy you intended to reintroduce? I'm open-minded on this topic, since I only recently changed my mind anyway -- feel free to continue the conversation!)

But that, I already agree with, because as I implied, I think that software is generally more expensive than is justified by its production.

-0

p.s. This has become a much more interesting post than the title implies :)

p.p.s. Suppose the CD, paper, plastic, box, manual etc. cost about two dollars for a box copy of Office, which you can manage to get for let's say 200 bucks. Raw materials cost == 1% of price tag. Suppose a 330ci costs x in iron, x in fiberglass etc (remember only raw materials -- expensive parts make life hard for us) -- what is the final price tag? I dunno. 40k? To be at 1%, the cost of raw materials would have to be... 400 bucks. How far off is this? How much less *does* software cost in raw materials to produce a boxed set? I'm just curious!
 
Did the Microsoft error message really say "you have exceeded the *amount* of users"? Someone should tell Bill Gates that we have an excellent word in the English language - "number" - and encourage him to use it more often.

Matt
 
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