Powermac G4 450MHz for $ 530. Do I get the money's worth?

Ifrit

Ifrit

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Currently I've saved $ 600 and thought about buying a used G4 (sawtooth?) at the local apple reseller. The powermac's internal HD was replaced with a 40GB one (7200RPM) and it also comes with 256MB RAM preinstalled. The installed stock ATI 128 Rage graphic card is the only disadvantage.
I already "played around" with it (it is still running OS9), and it seems to work without problems).

I want to use this G4 model for "low level" DVD authoring and video editing (imovie, idvd), graphic editing (Photoshop), and of course for creating music with garage band. The internal HD of my current mac (G3 700MHz ibook) is to slow for those kinds of activities and provides not enough space (although graphic editing is not a problem)

I want to hear/read your opinions about this subject, maybe someone could suggest other, cheaper solutions (but I can't think of any)

Some questions still remain:

Currently I own a G3 700MHz ibook. Basically this is the only mac I have fully experienced (speed/performace wise) How does a G4 450Mhz compare to a G3 700Mhz? (I must admit I also work on another apple reseller and have taken appart a lot of apple machines (including the new G5) but there wasn't much time to "toy" around with 'em. I am kindas new to this buisness. :) )

I've read somewhere it is possible with add on cards to bump this G4 model to 1Ghz speed. Does panther support it?

Are there any critical firmware updates I have to install before installing Mac OSX 10.3?
 
You shouldnt need any firmware updates, and it should run Panther fine. I bought a 400Mhz (chipped to 500Mhz by the reseller for me) G4 with a DVD-RAM drive in October. Well I traded it for two beige G3s and £300. Thats Pounds Sterling, so $500 sounds pretty good to me in comparison. I actually took my Jaguar HD out of one of the beige G3s, popped it into the G4, booted and upgraded. I had backed my stuff up but in the end it wasnt necessary, and Panther seems to run fine on the upgraded chip.
 
Sorry to say, but I don't think that this Sawtooth, inexpensive as it may first appear, would be a good deal for you. While G4s do have the advantage of altivec, which boosts performance in many OS X applications, 450 MHz is certainly below the minimum system requirements for most of the programs you mentioned. Like you said, that Rage card would also have to be replaced; when you add up total costs for the Sawtooth, new processor and graphics card, you're talkin' over one grand. For that kind of cash, you could get a brand new top of the line 1GHz eMac 80GB HD, superdrive, Panther & iLIfe. (Though the eMac's HD is not 7200rps; only towers come with that. But it probably is not your iBook's HD that is too slow for iLife, but its processor.
System Requirements:
Macintosh computer with a PowerPC G3, G4 or G5 processor
600MHz G3 or faster required for GarageBand
G4 or faster required for GarageBand software instruments
733MHz G4 or faster required for iDVD
256MB of physical RAM )

You might also consider the purchase of a used QuickSilver.

The decision is yours, my friend.

http://www.macsales.com/

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/
 
Yep, I'd agree... try and push for an eMac... they are great machines, and far superior than the G4 450.
 
I have to admit the eMac makes sense with all those extra taken into account - I forgot to mention I already had a Radeon 9000 64Mb and lots RAM, so my g4's performance is pretty good, but I already had that stuff so it wasnt an extra expense or consideration for me.
I will say I am quite happy with performance with Photoshop, Studio MX etc, once the RAM is in there....
 
Thanks for the reply andychrist (and the other forumers), I never thought about the Mhz border. The only thing I had in mind was the "needs a G4" requirement.

Unfortunally, it will take another 5 months until I am able to buy a new machine (with the current lousy job including my 2nd job, working at the apple reseller, its only possible for me to save $ 100 per month)

Has anybody tried these applications on a 450 Mhz G4. Do they work at all? Is the "Required hardware not found!" idvd styled message the only thing which appears, if you are trying to launch one of those apps? The price of the G4 is still tempting, if I compare it to the prices of a well know online auction site, or other places.

Regarding the equipment statement, I already have enough spare parts lying around, for examble a spare Apple branded Superdrive, there is a Mac Geforce 2 MX somewhere "hiding" in my closet (I only need something which is OSX 10.3 compatible and has 32MB vram, right?)
I got most of these parts from my 2nd job, or through ebay. RAM isn't a problem eigher.

I also considered a used QuickSilver, but most of these sell for $ 1000 in Germany.

edit: Wooohaaa found a used quicksilver on ebay (buy at once option) for $ 800, maybe I'll save my money and buy one of those in ~ 2 months. (if they are still sold for this price)

(I apologize, my English writing skills aren't on par with yours)
 
Talk to Bobw, he has a 450 MHz G4 bumped to 1GHz, and likes it.

You could also check here: http://promo.euro.apple.com/promo/refurb/de/

The US Apple Store has some good deals on the refurbished macs, so I would assume that the German one would too.

Also, I think $530 for a 450MHz G4 with 256MB of RAM and no display is a bit much, and I also agree that for what you're doing, the iBook will probably seem like a sports car compared to the G4, because there is solid evidence that the G3 and the G4 are close to equal in speed for the same MHz, as long as the application you are using isn't optimized for the G4.
 
Ifrit: The 1GHz processor upgrade goes for about $350, so even if that is all you would need to buy, you're still looking at $880 minimum, without a good display (you didn't mention having one other than the iBook.) And if you try using any of the iLife package other than iTunes on a 450 MHz G4, you will be sorely disappointed-- just forget about GarageBand and iDVD (both of which you said you wanted to use.) Please understand, those figures I lifted from Apple's iLife site are not just recommendations, they are requirements.

If you need to keep current, a cheap, outdated Mac is no bargain.

But a cheap, used QuickSilver or new eMac, is!

BTW your English is fine, I assumed you were in the States!
 
Is it worth it to buy an powermac 450mhz and the buy a processor upgrade for another $350? Isn't it better to take that money and buy a new but still used powermac G4?! You'd get AGP x4 slot, faster bus. That's what I'd do.

Just a thought

Viktor
 
Also, have you inquired where you work about trading in your iBook, or have you looked to see how much you could get for it on eBay? I bet that with the money you'd make on that, combined with your savings, you could get that used QuickSilver plus a nice display, or a brand new eMac, right now.

Cheers!
 
iMan, those were considerations for me too. I could have got an eMac (the 17" screen would certainly be better quality than my current Dell one) but I wanted expandability, I now have two HDs in there, a graphics card and wanted the option of adding a TV card among other things. Sure the eMacs got enough FW and USB ports but I like my kit internal, not loads of peripherals. I also want to go up to 19" or 21" this year.
As far as bang-for-your-buck goes, the eMac is certainly better value, but if you like to get inside your machine a lot, and you're more likely to 'acquire' components 'free' for your upgrades rather than taking out a second mortgage, then the G4 is a workhorse that will stand you in good stead. The amount of complaints I hear from my mate with the Cube just becuase he can't do much to it to improve its spec, its a consideration.
Even if I had managed to sell my g3s for what they were actually worth (rather than having little option but to trade them to reach G4 value), I would have got a Qucksilver 1Ghz, or even a Mirror Drive 733Mhz, for the expansion ability.
Maybe you can do quite a lot to eMacs, but seeing as it takes most people an hour to find the power switch I'm guessing its even harder to get inside one of those than a tray-load iMac......
 
Ok, you're right andychrist, it might be that I got to obsessed by the possible ownership of a powermac system (even if it is a obsolete G4 450MHz powermac). To be honest in most cases I am rather a impulsive buyer, this means if a product is just necessary its no problem (lets say you have to buy a car which will bring you from point A to point B and you also know you have to spend a lot of money on it)
I know how to handle such situation calm, comparing various offers etc. BUT the opposite happens if I am excited, if I am really looking forward for this product and playing around with this powermac didn't help either. I might have ended with an obsolute machine which isn't capable of doing the things I want.
Thats one reason I purchased a overpriced G3 clamshell powerbook around 2 years ago which I sold for around $ 800 on ebay > although I even made some momey out of it. Yeah, I know it might sounds like I didn't learn from the mistakes I made. So I think I am back "on track".

I really don't want to sell my ibook, because I really need it for my two jobs (and without ical I would forget my own head if it wasn't attached to my body).
A display is no problem I have enough spare 15'' CRTs in my room, including two 19'' screens (currently both are connected to my main PC)
(And not long ago I got a graphite airport station as birthday present so this "investment" wouldn't be usefull anymore)

The only thing I thought about is selling my ibook + spending the money in order to get a new, more powerfull portable G4 system. But I don't know if a 12 inch powerbook is a good replacement for a desktop system. Others might argue that even a G4 ibook would be better replacement. I am confused now.

I rather prefer the idea of a seperate portable and a seperate desktop system.
 
I owned that exact machine - G4 450 sawtooth - and I did sell it and upgraded to a DP G4 1 GHz DP primarily for video editing. I loved that G4 450 for many years, but it really isn't up to what you need. Sure, you could upgrade the processor to 1 GHz, but what is the cost of all that? At the same time, I goofed around with a friends 800 MHz G4 Emac and thought it was plenty zippy for most video and FCP work.

As a fellow impulsive person (my friend's nicknamed me "Mr. Instant Gratification), I know exactly where you are at! Just take your time - it can only get better (price wise and choice wise) as you wait. I think you will want dual monitors and a tower vs an emac is the way to go there. Perhaps a faster used G4 desktop is the answer. 886 (or whatever weird speed that was), 1 GHz single processor or something like that is sure to come along in the used market. I'd go for a faster clock speed single over a slower speed dual too. For example, rule out a dual 500.
 
Hey Ifrit, don't feel bad, I spent $950 just in the past year alone upgrading my obsolete G3 iMac, for which I originally payed ~$1300. It is now worth maybe $400. Thus is writ my folly, that some might draw a leaf.

A new 12" or even 14" (!) 1 GHz G4 iBook would certainly be able to handle the applications you describe, and would allow you to trade in your G3 700 MHz without sacrificing the portability that you need for your job. I dare say you could get as much for that G3 on ebay as you did for your clamshell; again, the proceeds combined with your present savings could get you a new, top of the line, fully warranteed product.

On the other hand, there are obvious advantages to owning both a portable and a separate desktop. That $800 QuickSilver certainly does have potential, but if you can't swing it right now it may be gone when you can afford it.

The iBook and eMac will always be there, their prices falling, beckoning you...
 
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