Yes, same here. I want to know WHY it has to optimize everything. I know it's prebinding stuff, but why does it have to do this(besides making it faster)? OS9 didn't have anything like this. Why did Apple build this into OSX if it makes it slower?
10.1.1
- Thread starter masternew
- Start date
Yes, same here. I want to know WHY it has to optimize everything. I know it's prebinding stuff, but why does it have to do this(besides making it faster)? OS9 didn't have anything like this. Why did Apple build this into OSX if it makes it slower?
I agree with SCrossman. You give up a few short minutes (I mean you guys realize that the optimization takes just MINUTES) to have a snappier, better supported system all the time.
If Apple came to you and said, "Can I make your system run faster, including the Finder, better CD & DVD burning support, and support numerous other USB devices?"
You ask, "Well, how long is going to take?"
Apple, "Oh, just about 20 minutes to an half-hour."
You actually say, "No."
Apple (suprised), "Even though it's FREE?"
Anyway, I was thrilled to see 10.1.1 out already. ANd thrilled to see that after it downloaded, Apple actually took the time to optimize my system, as well.
Thanks Apple!
If Apple came to you and said, "Can I make your system run faster, including the Finder, better CD & DVD burning support, and support numerous other USB devices?"
You ask, "Well, how long is going to take?"
Apple, "Oh, just about 20 minutes to an half-hour."
You actually say, "No."
Apple (suprised), "Even though it's FREE?"
Anyway, I was thrilled to see 10.1.1 out already. ANd thrilled to see that after it downloaded, Apple actually took the time to optimize my system, as well.
Thanks Apple!
iknownotwhoiam
Registered
any time i add anything new to my desktop (folder/downloaded file/disk image) everything on my desktop decides to scatter and will not move back into its original position. has this happened to anyone else?
No, not really, cause my question was why is there anthing that has to be bound? What's being pre-bound and why is there a need for the things that are being bound? As I said before, OS9 didn't have it and it ran fast.
tismey
Official Bartender
OS X is built on a completely different foundation from previous versions of the OS, including OS 9. The UNIX innards of OS X are what make it loads more stable, and so-on and so forth, and as far as I understand it, prebinding is a *NIX thing that makes sure that all its bits and pieces are where the system thinks they should be pre-runtime (rather than having to locate them when you want to do something). There's no doubt someone who knows a lot more about UNIX who can explain it in more detail if you really want. It DOES speed things up, it's a good thing. Use the time to make a cup of coffee, or ring your mum or something...
OS X is a completely different beast than OS9. Prebinding is done to ensure the OS knows the location of the various files used for an app or the OS itself. The information is then cached so the files are bound together for quicker loading.
The biggest reason it is done is to increase performance, as you stated in your original question.
But I will digressÉ
Yes, I do know that prebinding is a good thing in OSX but only because of the way OSX is written. If the OS has to look for stuff when a program is launched, what happens in OS9? I'm not complaining about the time it takes to do it either cause you don't even have to watch it, just continue on with whatever you want to do.
All I'm trying to understand is what is it in OSX that makes prebinding necessary, when it's not in OS9.
If you are right and OSX is searching for stuff when it's not prebound, why not make it more like OS9 so that it's not required? Maybe it's too big of a task to do or something but I just want to know.
I KNOW THAT. I'm not an idiot that thinks that it should be the same as OS9 or anything, but all I wanted to know is what part of OSX makes it different from OS9 with regards to prebinding.
What type of files are bound? Preferences? Shouldn't an application already know the location of any files that it uses?
I installed 10.1.1 on my G4 just fine. But on my PB it's no go. The updater gives me an error message after download but before install. No problem, thinks I, I'll just d/l it manually. Do that at versiontracker, mount the disk image, and now whenever I try and run the .pkg it opens the window and then unexpectedly quits. Any thoughts?
ulrik
Registered
To make it simple:
In OS 9, Applications had most of their needed libraries either bound into their code or they got them from system extensions.
"Libraries" might not be the correct term under OS 9, but I'll use it to make things easier. I don't know if you are a programmer, so I will try to explain it. I do this because I want to help you, not because I think you are an idiot.
When you code something, you use libraries. It's like a real library. You use the knowledge of others. Easy example: you are writing an app which can open files. Normally, you would have to write your own methods/functions to make the graphic card draw a window, you handle any mouse/keyboard events in the "open file" window, to analyze the file system etc. etc. This takes time. So, what else can you do? You pull a book out of your library (in this case the book would be a function) and you use it's knowledge (the "actions" the function executes) to do this file opening. Result? You are saving time, you are securing that it works (since in this case the functions have been already written by Apple) and all applications share the same "open file" functionality, so debugging is easier, the final user finds it easier (since each app more or less has the same "open file" dialog) etc.
Now, there are two possibilities when you code: either include these libraries static. This means they are "hardcoded" into your application, making it big. The other approach is that you dynamically load these functions from system libraries. You might know that Windows uses files with the ending .dll, which is exactly this, it's a dynamic link library. So any app which uses our "open file" dialog executes a function withing this library to display the window and make it work with the app.
It saves space since all apps are smaller, they share the same functionality over one file, a system library. These libraries have to be present in the RAM when the application runs, everything else would be slow. So once the application starts, it searches all libraries it needs, loads them into the RAM, and the starts running. What the prebinding does is making some kind of list where the needed libraries for each app are, making app launch times faster. If the prebindings are out of date, the application would start to search the library all over you harddrive before it is able to start running.
This is a VERY basic explaination, and I know that there are "errors" in it, I just wanted to explain what this prebinding stuff is and how important it is.
In OS 9, Applications had most of their needed libraries either bound into their code or they got them from system extensions.
"Libraries" might not be the correct term under OS 9, but I'll use it to make things easier. I don't know if you are a programmer, so I will try to explain it. I do this because I want to help you, not because I think you are an idiot.
When you code something, you use libraries. It's like a real library. You use the knowledge of others. Easy example: you are writing an app which can open files. Normally, you would have to write your own methods/functions to make the graphic card draw a window, you handle any mouse/keyboard events in the "open file" window, to analyze the file system etc. etc. This takes time. So, what else can you do? You pull a book out of your library (in this case the book would be a function) and you use it's knowledge (the "actions" the function executes) to do this file opening. Result? You are saving time, you are securing that it works (since in this case the functions have been already written by Apple) and all applications share the same "open file" functionality, so debugging is easier, the final user finds it easier (since each app more or less has the same "open file" dialog) etc.
Now, there are two possibilities when you code: either include these libraries static. This means they are "hardcoded" into your application, making it big. The other approach is that you dynamically load these functions from system libraries. You might know that Windows uses files with the ending .dll, which is exactly this, it's a dynamic link library. So any app which uses our "open file" dialog executes a function withing this library to display the window and make it work with the app.
It saves space since all apps are smaller, they share the same functionality over one file, a system library. These libraries have to be present in the RAM when the application runs, everything else would be slow. So once the application starts, it searches all libraries it needs, loads them into the RAM, and the starts running. What the prebinding does is making some kind of list where the needed libraries for each app are, making app launch times faster. If the prebindings are out of date, the application would start to search the library all over you harddrive before it is able to start running.
This is a VERY basic explaination, and I know that there are "errors" in it, I just wanted to explain what this prebinding stuff is and how important it is.
Thanks for the explanation.
Yes I am a programmer so I understand now what a program is searching for.
The reason I made a point of saying that I'm not an idiot was because people kept saying that OSX is different from OS9. Yes I already know that, and now I have an explanation for what exactly the prebinding does.
Prebinding in Mac OS X only applies to Mach-O binaries which are written in Cocoa or derivatives of Cocoa and Carbonized applications that run through a Mach-O proxy.
Run-time "static dynamic binding" resolves the function calls of the program at load time so that they refer directly to the library functions in RAM. C++ "virtual functions" are resolved in this manner.
The Objective-C language supports a special property called "Dynamic Dynamic Binding," which basically means that the actual function to be called in a library or program module is only very loosely determined when the program is built, so the actual function called and its location in RAM are determined at run-time. This means, for example, that you can call a method named "MyMethod" for any object that has such a method, and you don't have to decide what kind of object will call it until run-time. This is similar to what C++ "virtual functions" accomplish, but far more flexible. Of course it also makes the runtime code a little slower, which is where prebinding comes in.
For more on Dynamic Binding check out this link.
Prebinding is necessary to speed things up in MacOS X not only due to the property of Dynamic Binding, but because there are complex chains of dependency between various libraries, so seeking the library the program needs, followed by the library the library needs, plus the library that that library needs... can be a hassle time after time. Not to mention that once the system locates all the necessary libraries it must load them in order of dependency, which is the reverse of the search order.
To learn a little more about prebinding go to the terminal and enter:
man redo_prebinding
Run-time "static dynamic binding" resolves the function calls of the program at load time so that they refer directly to the library functions in RAM. C++ "virtual functions" are resolved in this manner.
The Objective-C language supports a special property called "Dynamic Dynamic Binding," which basically means that the actual function to be called in a library or program module is only very loosely determined when the program is built, so the actual function called and its location in RAM are determined at run-time. This means, for example, that you can call a method named "MyMethod" for any object that has such a method, and you don't have to decide what kind of object will call it until run-time. This is similar to what C++ "virtual functions" accomplish, but far more flexible. Of course it also makes the runtime code a little slower, which is where prebinding comes in.
For more on Dynamic Binding check out this link.
Prebinding is necessary to speed things up in MacOS X not only due to the property of Dynamic Binding, but because there are complex chains of dependency between various libraries, so seeking the library the program needs, followed by the library the library needs, plus the library that that library needs... can be a hassle time after time. Not to mention that once the system locates all the necessary libraries it must load them in order of dependency, which is the reverse of the search order.
To learn a little more about prebinding go to the terminal and enter:
man redo_prebinding
Thanks for another great explanation. I'm familiar with dynamic binding and static binding. I think there's another way to do it in C++ but I'm not sure how as I'm only a second year computer programmer student.
I wouldn't have thought that dynamic binding would have such an impact on application launch times.
What exactly am I looking for here? I see Contents if I open the .pkg in the terminal, and Resources inside of that. Nothing I know to run.
The other oddity? My terminal is now defaulting to zsh. It used to be tcsh, which I prefer. How do I set what it starts up in?