10.2.8 - second time around. Do you trust it?
- Thread starter karavite
- Start date
karavite
Registered
Okay, so what are we saying here RacerX? Everyone should know not to update their software even when their computer is set by default to update their software? Every new Mac user should have an expert they can call or talk to about their computer and if no expert is available, spend time scouring the web for information on running their computer because their computer company can't supply them with enough detailed and clear information? For those without the expertise or someone like you to call, what happens to those who pay Apple for support and call them? You know what Apple says (at least to my new user friends who followed this path)? "Run the updates!" Most people would assume that Apple would be the best for having the most competent experts on the Mac, so why do they pump out and/or recommend these updates if nobody should run them? (note, apple tech support is often inconsistent - you can get a sharp or dull cookie depending on your luck, but where is that published?).
What about security? Many OS X updates include security updates - it often says this right in the update notice text. With all the hype in the media about computer security (though thankfully on the MS side of the fence), isn't it reasonable for a new Mac user to think they may need to run an update at least for security purposes?
There is no logic here, no clear message or source of expertise - especially for new Mac users who buy into Apple's marketing message: "Easy to use, less hassle, reliable, dependable..."
Maybe my expertise at software is above average but still quite limited, but I am a user not a network admin. I use my computers very productively for my work. As a user I am way above average. You know, some of use computers for work, not just making computers reliable and stable. There is more to life and business than keeping a print server up. I make the money my IT department blows on fixing problems.
Business, education, healthcare... is sick and tired of buggy IT and all the excuses - it is a drain on everything is NOT the center of interest or priorities. Though Apple is far superior to MS or anyone else on this, but the same old IT arguments are getting very old and tired. I hear network admins going on and on about their issues as if the network was the whole purpose for the business or institution existing - not the other way around (eg. reality). I often quote Alan Shepard (from The Right Stuff). "Fix your little problem and light this candle." Sure maybe we could all spend time learning more about technology, but network people could sure use a lesson in learning more about business and users. RacerX you sound way way above average in your job, but you are rare. Your profession needs more people like you!
When OS X first came out, it was very much a work in progress. Updates were common and often resulted in substantial benefits in performance and features. From this, I found myself excited at OS X updates. I ran them from 10.1 and was rewarded with a much better computer every time. Apparently I was lulled into a feeling of safety by so many effective updates. I have learned the hard way. Now, I don't run updates and I tell the Mac users (all 600 miles away) who I convinced to buy a Mac to not run their updates either. Even with these issues, there is no way MS updates for security are any comparison - the instructions and steps for required security updates are a nightmare and very risky and confound non-savvy users all over the world. No argument here - Apple leads the way on updates.
Now for my machine, I do run many third party OS hacks - many of which I find increase my enjoyment and productivity in using my computer (Fruit Menu, Virtual Desktop and a few more) so I realize their is a risk when running an update - most times there is not. I know Apple can't account for this stuff that messes with the OS so I back up my entire drive to another drive using Carbon Copy Cloner and I am safe. If there are problems I can just switch to the other drive.
My two "switchers" have Emacs and iMacs with nothing other than maybe MS office on them and they ran updates and had big problems. One lost the ability to run iMovie 3 (her sole purpose for buying the Mac in the first place) and then paid the Apple support fee only to have Apple not be able to solve their problem - after being guided through reinstalls she still can't run iMovie 3, Apple can't give her iMovie 2 and told her, swear to God, to just wait for 10.3. I suppose she could shell out a few hundred for FCP and then spend a few days learning how to use it, but she was sold by Apple commercials and Apple store reps on the virtues of iMovie and iPhoto (which often locks up).
I'm not clear on the whole story because I was called after it all occured, but I believe she updated her OS because the update of iMovie 3 required and update of Quicktime which in turn required an update of OS X. She foolishly thought iMovie 3 would give her more features (after all that was what Apple said in emails, their website and update notices) and that the upgrade path would be safe given she had virtually no third party software on this Mac. I suppose she should have called MIT and registered for a class in OS architecture prior to running all of this? So, this wasn't a case of it aint broke so don't fix it, it was a case of Apple saying here is a great new product that is unique to your Mac (iMovie 3) - run all the updates and have a great time with those family videos! Search this site and you will see many people with update issues including iMovie 3.
What about security? Many OS X updates include security updates - it often says this right in the update notice text. With all the hype in the media about computer security (though thankfully on the MS side of the fence), isn't it reasonable for a new Mac user to think they may need to run an update at least for security purposes?
There is no logic here, no clear message or source of expertise - especially for new Mac users who buy into Apple's marketing message: "Easy to use, less hassle, reliable, dependable..."
Maybe my expertise at software is above average but still quite limited, but I am a user not a network admin. I use my computers very productively for my work. As a user I am way above average. You know, some of use computers for work, not just making computers reliable and stable. There is more to life and business than keeping a print server up. I make the money my IT department blows on fixing problems.
Business, education, healthcare... is sick and tired of buggy IT and all the excuses - it is a drain on everything is NOT the center of interest or priorities. Though Apple is far superior to MS or anyone else on this, but the same old IT arguments are getting very old and tired. I hear network admins going on and on about their issues as if the network was the whole purpose for the business or institution existing - not the other way around (eg. reality). I often quote Alan Shepard (from The Right Stuff). "Fix your little problem and light this candle." Sure maybe we could all spend time learning more about technology, but network people could sure use a lesson in learning more about business and users. RacerX you sound way way above average in your job, but you are rare. Your profession needs more people like you!
When OS X first came out, it was very much a work in progress. Updates were common and often resulted in substantial benefits in performance and features. From this, I found myself excited at OS X updates. I ran them from 10.1 and was rewarded with a much better computer every time. Apparently I was lulled into a feeling of safety by so many effective updates. I have learned the hard way. Now, I don't run updates and I tell the Mac users (all 600 miles away) who I convinced to buy a Mac to not run their updates either. Even with these issues, there is no way MS updates for security are any comparison - the instructions and steps for required security updates are a nightmare and very risky and confound non-savvy users all over the world. No argument here - Apple leads the way on updates.
Now for my machine, I do run many third party OS hacks - many of which I find increase my enjoyment and productivity in using my computer (Fruit Menu, Virtual Desktop and a few more) so I realize their is a risk when running an update - most times there is not. I know Apple can't account for this stuff that messes with the OS so I back up my entire drive to another drive using Carbon Copy Cloner and I am safe. If there are problems I can just switch to the other drive.
My two "switchers" have Emacs and iMacs with nothing other than maybe MS office on them and they ran updates and had big problems. One lost the ability to run iMovie 3 (her sole purpose for buying the Mac in the first place) and then paid the Apple support fee only to have Apple not be able to solve their problem - after being guided through reinstalls she still can't run iMovie 3, Apple can't give her iMovie 2 and told her, swear to God, to just wait for 10.3. I suppose she could shell out a few hundred for FCP and then spend a few days learning how to use it, but she was sold by Apple commercials and Apple store reps on the virtues of iMovie and iPhoto (which often locks up).
I'm not clear on the whole story because I was called after it all occured, but I believe she updated her OS because the update of iMovie 3 required and update of Quicktime which in turn required an update of OS X. She foolishly thought iMovie 3 would give her more features (after all that was what Apple said in emails, their website and update notices) and that the upgrade path would be safe given she had virtually no third party software on this Mac. I suppose she should have called MIT and registered for a class in OS architecture prior to running all of this? So, this wasn't a case of it aint broke so don't fix it, it was a case of Apple saying here is a great new product that is unique to your Mac (iMovie 3) - run all the updates and have a great time with those family videos! Search this site and you will see many people with update issues including iMovie 3.
Ripcord
Senior Lurker
Perhaps you're right, but the great point brought up earlier is that when 90% of home users or non-IT-admins see software update pop-up and say "new system update released! Will make your system faster and more stable! Install immediately!" I'm guessing they think it's okay to do just that. It's silly to think that they'd think otherwise.
Perhaps not for you, but you work on Macs all day. You're responsible for maintaining them for a large number of people. It's your job. But my mother's going to have a tough time with this. In fact, most of the guys where I work would also click the "Update now" button when it comes up. They're no slouches technically - research scientists, network gurus, programmers, etc, but not Sysadmins.
I agree that it's silly to whine about the problems - they happen, although they should happen EXTREMELY rarely (and they tend to with Apple). However, the elitist "anyone with an IQ of 4 should know better" attitude just doesn't fly.
Ripcord
Senior Lurker
There's a fine line between acceptable software defects, and when software companies should be liable for damages caused by the defects. Personally I think MS owes me quite a bit of money for my time spent rebooting systems after BSOD (or after installing new software for that matter. Reboot THREE times to install Sniffer? That's crazy.), trying to figure out why my sound card magically stopped working, time spent getting hammered by Code Red or Nimda, etc. But that's probably only because I've lost years of my life to these things...
In your case - let's say you took your brand new car back to the dealer for a tune-up, who suggested an upgrade to the computer in the car as part of the tune-up. The upgrade somehow blows up your $150 car stereo (okay, so it's a new, CHEAP car). You'd demand something from the dealer, wouldn't you?
But not for a $150 battery?
Like I said, it's a fine line. If the upgrade caused my car to stall occasionally but there were no major problems, and they took care of it three days later, I probably wouldn't make it an issue.
What do you guys think? Mistakes and bugs are unavoidable events, but at what point should software companies be held liable for damages?
Ripcord
Senior Lurker
Right, exactly. And what do you tell them? "Okay, when the system update thing pops up and tells you to upgrade, don't. Just tell it to skip. When it keeps bugging you to upgrade every week, just ignore it. Or put it on the Inactive list. Set an iCal reminder for a month in the future, then go out to the web and start trolling the message boards and news sites to make sure there are no reports of problems or incompatibility with your particular system or software. Or perform a system backup and then run the update (but remember, only after a month!)"
That's ridiculous. Mom would chuck hers out the window and take up knitting, or CB radio or something.
(I know I'm probably contradicting a couple of things I said in my first message, but I was thinking about corporate users, mostly. In context, though, I still don't think this was that big of an Apple gaffe)
pds
Registered
Ripcord,
Yes, if I went to a service center I would hold them responsible. When the service man here broke my keyboard cable while he put in a new hd, I made him replace the keyboard.
With the update, I was the service center and I hold myself responsible. I have no proof that the 2.4 update fried my 5 year old second-hand clamshell's battery, only anecdotal evidence.
I chalk it up and remove my battery now whenever I do an update, whether for os or other things.
Now that I think about it again...
I was pissed at the time.
Yes, if I went to a service center I would hold them responsible. When the service man here broke my keyboard cable while he put in a new hd, I made him replace the keyboard.
With the update, I was the service center and I hold myself responsible. I have no proof that the 2.4 update fried my 5 year old second-hand clamshell's battery, only anecdotal evidence.
I chalk it up and remove my battery now whenever I do an update, whether for os or other things.
Now that I think about it again...
I was pissed at the time.
I don't know, guys... It may be my personal luck, but I have _always_ installed the system updates when they came out from day one of Mac OS X 10.0. I've NEVER had an update kill anything. And quite surely never a whole system. Even iTunes 2.0.2 installed _just_ fine for me without killing my harddrive. 10.2.8 installation went fine the first time I've tried. And quite surely any upgrade before. And I know quite a number of people who had no problems either. Now... Apple _does_ test their software with ADC Select & Premier members. Maybe those are not the people who install APE, haxies and other system altering (and problem-prone) software. Or I don't know...
I *think* Apple has done the right thing. A bug cropped up. Or two. Okay, can happen. Shouldn't - but can. They took the update down. Best thing they could do, right? And after a week (or was it less?) they've issued another update that solved the problems.
The knowledge base article DID talk about the problems afaik. So: All's well that ends well...
That's the way I see it. Can't help it.
I *think* Apple has done the right thing. A bug cropped up. Or two. Okay, can happen. Shouldn't - but can. They took the update down. Best thing they could do, right? And after a week (or was it less?) they've issued another update that solved the problems.
The knowledge base article DID talk about the problems afaik. So: All's well that ends well...
That's the way I see it. Can't help it.
hulkaros
The Incredible...
I trusted it in more than 60 Macs of our customers (all models of 2001-2003 actually) and NO problems whatsoever with MANY additional hardware and software stuff installed after the initial OS X and iApps installations!
For those who had/have problems with 10.2.8 I feel sorry for them
I cannot say anything other than I do hope that their problems will soon end one way or another...
For those who had/have problems with 10.2.8 I feel sorry for them
I cannot say anything other than I do hope that their problems will soon end one way or another... 
edX
mac shaman
i think that at times apple is responsible for releasing updates that don't work as well as they thought. the 1st 2.8 is an example of this. however, if apple releases and update and suddenly your 3rd party software or hardware doesn't work, that's the manufacturer's fault. i mean - os x is the operating system. it is there responsibility to make sure their stuff works with it. this is part of why apple prereleases betas to their registered developers. so write the 3rd party who's responsible and let them know you're not happy. don't bitch and moan and iwhine about apple cause your m$ mouse no longer works. or your belkin hub just became the cause of kernel panics. sure, get pissed, but get pissed at the right people.
that being said - i'd bet 90% of update problems occur for people who don't take the time or invest the money to keep their system repaired and maintained. if you've got little problems before an update, they're very likely to be big ones afterwards. this has nothing to do with apple. it has to do with being too lazy or cheap or naive to keep their system in tip top shape. directories, filesystems, etc. need to be rebuilt and updated. crowded, active disks need to be defragmented. crons need to be run. caches need to be cleared. pram needs to be cleared. get the picture? no one should install a new update unless they know they've been properly maintaining their macs before hand. don't expect an update to repair things that were already wrong (or going wrong) with your unique computer after installing. and like i said earlier - don't forget to repair permissions after each update.
and if you've got warez and multible haxies on your mac, think for a second about where possible conflicts and problems might really orginate. i would guess there is a potential for more corrupt files and conflicts in those than in all the apple updates combined.
that being said - i'd bet 90% of update problems occur for people who don't take the time or invest the money to keep their system repaired and maintained. if you've got little problems before an update, they're very likely to be big ones afterwards. this has nothing to do with apple. it has to do with being too lazy or cheap or naive to keep their system in tip top shape. directories, filesystems, etc. need to be rebuilt and updated. crowded, active disks need to be defragmented. crons need to be run. caches need to be cleared. pram needs to be cleared. get the picture? no one should install a new update unless they know they've been properly maintaining their macs before hand. don't expect an update to repair things that were already wrong (or going wrong) with your unique computer after installing. and like i said earlier - don't forget to repair permissions after each update.
and if you've got warez and multible haxies on your mac, think for a second about where possible conflicts and problems might really orginate. i would guess there is a potential for more corrupt files and conflicts in those than in all the apple updates combined.
karavite
Registered
edX - I do hope you never seek work in PR, marketing or customer relations! Ripcord said what I have been trying to say - how does this hard a$$ attitude help with new neophyte Mac users - those people Apple specifically targets in all its ads. If your way is the way it is for all Mac users, then why not just go out and buy a Dell PC with Windows XP home edition? Sure it will be more headaches, but with the $1000+ I can save on hardware (you gan get PCs for about $500 these days) I can buy a suite of disk utilities and be all set.
FYI, can you believe 10.2.8 fixed unexplainable printing problems I encountered with 10.2.6? My garden variety Epson printer, fully supported by OS X, would not print on 10.2.6 - EVEN from a clean OS X install upgraded to 10.2.6 with NO - ZERO third party apps of ANY KIND or anything else and permissions repaired... (I did this "just for fun" yesterday on a spare drive). Now it prints like a champ with 10.2.8. I guess Epson is to blame here for my 10.2.6 printing issues? I mean what kind of user or customer am I to expect reliable printing in 2003? I should learn to write my own printer drivers and then I will have nobody but myself to blame!
Ripcord said what I have been trying to say - how does this hard a$$ attitude help with new neophyte Mac users - those people Apple specifically targets in all its ads. If your way is the way it is for all Mac users, then why not just go out and buy a Dell PC with Windows XP home edition? Sure it will be more headaches, but with the $1000+ I can save on hardware (you gan get PCs for about $500 these days) I can buy a suite of disk utilities and be all set.FYI, can you believe 10.2.8 fixed unexplainable printing problems I encountered with 10.2.6? My garden variety Epson printer, fully supported by OS X, would not print on 10.2.6 - EVEN from a clean OS X install upgraded to 10.2.6 with NO - ZERO third party apps of ANY KIND or anything else and permissions repaired... (I did this "just for fun" yesterday on a spare drive). Now it prints like a champ with 10.2.8. I guess Epson is to blame here for my 10.2.6 printing issues? I mean what kind of user or customer am I to expect reliable printing in 2003? I should learn to write my own printer drivers and then I will have nobody but myself to blame!
RacerX
Old Rhapsody User
Can you drop the whole "Apple should be able to walk on water in 2003" thing already.
People aren't going to agree with your exaggerated view of the computing world. No company bats a 1000... not as long as they have clients that is. It just isn't possible.
Anyone so unrealistic as to believe that any piece of technology is beyond problems has no business owning any technology. That includes cars, microwave ovens, phones, mobile phones, VCRs, DVD players, and calculators (just to name a few). And anyone that gets as worked up as you over things like this needs to consider anger management because it is just not healthy. Getting upset as if someone (Apple) plotted to cause you problems is just bizarre. And then repeating the year 2003 over and over like some type of mantra is even worse.
I've quoted Consumer Reports before because they are honest and non-bias. As of September 2003, Apple had the best record of customer service and customer satisfaction in the industry. And yes that included Dell.
Just for fun, what was your garden variety Epson printer? All but one of my home clients use Epson, I have an Epson, and I know a few of my smaller clients have an Epson on their networks. What printer are you having problems with in 2003?
People aren't going to agree with your exaggerated view of the computing world. No company bats a 1000... not as long as they have clients that is. It just isn't possible.
Anyone so unrealistic as to believe that any piece of technology is beyond problems has no business owning any technology. That includes cars, microwave ovens, phones, mobile phones, VCRs, DVD players, and calculators (just to name a few). And anyone that gets as worked up as you over things like this needs to consider anger management because it is just not healthy. Getting upset as if someone (Apple) plotted to cause you problems is just bizarre. And then repeating the year 2003 over and over like some type of mantra is even worse.
I've quoted Consumer Reports before because they are honest and non-bias. As of September 2003, Apple had the best record of customer service and customer satisfaction in the industry. And yes that included Dell.
Just for fun, what was your garden variety Epson printer? All but one of my home clients use Epson, I have an Epson, and I know a few of my smaller clients have an Epson on their networks. What printer are you having problems with in 2003?
karavite
Registered
RacerX, as they say, please don't get your BVDs in a bunch. I am not hostile to you and I am a huge Apple fan, but I think they could use some feedback now and then. I never said Apple needs to be God, just being a little more open and informative (eg push not pull) on technical issues, errors and problems. It would further seperate them from the crowd of "oh, it's not our fault, it must be some other software you are using..." type of repsonse that is all too common out there.
Apple, not me, markets their products as super easy to use and as a great alternative for home and small business users. I just think they could do a little more to follow up on their main brand identity issue.
You seem to make some of your living consutlting home users - that's great. I on the other hand have little time to help friends and family with computer problems (I only help the Mac users and am very often successful), but when one of them buys a Mac on my recommendation and upgrading to iMovie 3 (an upgrade promoting new features) causes problems Apple support - paid support - can't solve, and others on this very forum have the same problem, well it seems unfair and an embarrassment. Speaking as a consumer, not an Apple worshipper, paid consultant... why can't someone demand a reliable $2000+ computer that lets them print or make movies just like on the ads? As a consumer with plenty of choices, logical arguments aren't really the issue - consumers can take their money wherever they want no matter what their opinions are based on. I don't want Apple to lose switchers! My Apple switcher friend (who can't use iMovie when she bought a Mac for iMovie and paid Apple $300 in support fees) is livid. Apple had her in their pocket, she absolutely loved her Mac, but now is furious and dissappointed. If you are near Detroit, I would have her call you, but knowledgeable people like you are not easy to find! Even if they are, paying someone $80+ an hour to clean up ones "super easy to use Mac" is not something that leaves a warm fuzzy feeling in people's heart.
P.S. Epson 740i - a little old, but has been supported by OS X since day one. I tried different USB cables and ports, tested it on a PC, another Mac... and yet it would not print from the G4 DP (oh, ran the hardware check disk too, repaired permissions...) with both a perfectly clean 10.2.6 install on one drive and another drive with a "messy" third party app infested 10.2.6 upgrade. I upgraded to 10.2.8 (second one) and the messy thrid party app infested drive now prints like a charm. Same with the clean drive. I have seen plenty of "can't print" posts associated with various OS X updates on this site. Sure it is a little thing in the grand scheme of things - God knows what little line of code from Apple and/or Epson is responsible, but call me crazy, I just naturally expect a $2500 computer and/or perfectly relaible printer to handle something like printing hassle free - in 2003 especially.
Apple, not me, markets their products as super easy to use and as a great alternative for home and small business users. I just think they could do a little more to follow up on their main brand identity issue.
You seem to make some of your living consutlting home users - that's great. I on the other hand have little time to help friends and family with computer problems (I only help the Mac users and am very often successful), but when one of them buys a Mac on my recommendation and upgrading to iMovie 3 (an upgrade promoting new features) causes problems Apple support - paid support - can't solve, and others on this very forum have the same problem, well it seems unfair and an embarrassment. Speaking as a consumer, not an Apple worshipper, paid consultant... why can't someone demand a reliable $2000+ computer that lets them print or make movies just like on the ads? As a consumer with plenty of choices, logical arguments aren't really the issue - consumers can take their money wherever they want no matter what their opinions are based on. I don't want Apple to lose switchers! My Apple switcher friend (who can't use iMovie when she bought a Mac for iMovie and paid Apple $300 in support fees) is livid. Apple had her in their pocket, she absolutely loved her Mac, but now is furious and dissappointed. If you are near Detroit, I would have her call you, but knowledgeable people like you are not easy to find! Even if they are, paying someone $80+ an hour to clean up ones "super easy to use Mac" is not something that leaves a warm fuzzy feeling in people's heart.
P.S. Epson 740i - a little old, but has been supported by OS X since day one. I tried different USB cables and ports, tested it on a PC, another Mac... and yet it would not print from the G4 DP (oh, ran the hardware check disk too, repaired permissions...) with both a perfectly clean 10.2.6 install on one drive and another drive with a "messy" third party app infested 10.2.6 upgrade. I upgraded to 10.2.8 (second one) and the messy thrid party app infested drive now prints like a charm. Same with the clean drive. I have seen plenty of "can't print" posts associated with various OS X updates on this site. Sure it is a little thing in the grand scheme of things - God knows what little line of code from Apple and/or Epson is responsible, but call me crazy, I just naturally expect a $2500 computer and/or perfectly relaible printer to handle something like printing hassle free - in 2003 especially.
edX
mac shaman
my epson 740 has worked like a charm since 10.0.4. the only problems i've ever had were cured by giving it a little time turned off and then rebooting. so i doubt that the apple/epson drivers were really at fault in your case.
i think you'll find that apple is pretty d@mn good at admitting when it's their fault and knowing when it's not. the recent 10.2.8 release was a great example of apple quickly taking responsibility.
karavite - perhaps you should advise your friends to join our site and get the advantage of our members' expertise. lots of problems around here get solved after apple support has failed. i can't say that i can give apple tech support the highest rating.
i think you'll find that apple is pretty d@mn good at admitting when it's their fault and knowing when it's not. the recent 10.2.8 release was a great example of apple quickly taking responsibility.
karavite - perhaps you should advise your friends to join our site and get the advantage of our members' expertise. lots of problems around here get solved after apple support has failed. i can't say that i can give apple tech support the highest rating.
lilbandit
I hate Meath
anybody trying to solve another member's problem in here is obviously an enthuasiast, be it mac/windows/linux whatever. The poor individuals who have to work in those tech support call centres are often not interested in your problems and it is just a job. Dell are the same, when I was in college I took a summer job doing tech support for a bank. I wouldn't wish that kind of job on anyone. You are given a laminated list of appropriate answers for customers and you operate within a chain of command that records your calls. It's no wonder IT support is among worst of any sector.
edX
mac shaman
yea, i've also learned that the only way to get decent tech support is usually to ask for a supervisor as soon as the first person can't help you. with sbc yahoo i just immediately ask to be bumped to tier 2 support. even those guys don't always know what they're doing, but at least they don't keep asking you the same questions off their sheet over and over.
edX
mac shaman
karavite - why does the idea of maintaining and repairing a mac before things get too far out of hand seem so alien to you? if you bought a mercedes instead of a ford, would you think there was some reason you shouldn't wash & wax it, or change the oil? i would think you would be more devoted to maintaining it given the added investment it represents.
karavite
Registered
Okay edX, you are getting out of hand here. What makes you assume I don't take care of my Mac? What little hat did you pull that out of? I have plenty of third party utilties in my arsenal that I use regularly in a preventative way - including Drive 10, Disk Warrior, Plus Optimizer and I regularly repair my permissions. I'm sure I have a better car than you do too. Take a hint from lilbandit and contribute something productive.
karavite
Registered
Can you READ? After everything I did to trouble shoot this - two hard drives, three computers, switching cords and ports... Are you in some kind of mental fog? Of course I turned off the printer. Go find something else to drum up a little better than "Gee, mine worked fine, so you must be at fault." Next you'll ask me if I spun in my chair three times and said, "please print, please print, please print"
I thought you would learn some manners after 6700 posts.