12 kernal panics a day; determining cause?

H

hellatoms

Registered
I have a Dual G5 with 512megs of Apple ram, 512 megs of Crucial ram, 220 gig harddrive, 9800 video card, and the latest Panther updates. In the last week or so, I've had an escalating number of kernal panics a day (computer freezes with a gray screen saying to reboot). It started with 1 a day, and finally moved up to about 12 a day.

They would happen at random: browsing in Safari, making playlists in iTunes, using iPhoto, at the Log In screen when the system boots (before I even had a chance to pick a user), etc. I even had a kernal panic when I booted from the Install CD to use the Disk Utility.

I've also had a problem recently were the Finder will freeze up, and it can not be relaunched or force quit. Other applications will work fine for a short period, but then they too will freeze. The system will not reboot, because the Finder won't quit, so I have to hold the power button to turn the system off.

I've tried Disk Utility (after booting from the Install CD, all the tests came out OK but after it was all done I had a kernal panic), and I did the Apple Hardware Test and didn't find anything wrong. I took out the 512 megs of ram I got from Crucial, and I've had 3 kernal panic in the last half hour. I hadn't had any for months. I haven't installed any new software or hardware. I don't have any peripherals connected.

I don't think it's the OS, because it crashed when I booted from the Install CD. Is there a way I can test the ram to make sure it's alright? Where can I look for a log of what the error was? I don't notice anything in the console; what specifically should I look for? What can I do?
 
I have heard lately that folks are removing the Apple ram and having these errors go away. Did you try that? Put the Crucial back in and see what happens.

Mikey
 
I'll do that now.

I'm wondering if there is a utility to test the ram, so I see definitively that that is the problem.
 
There are some nice tests out there, also included with the OS. TechTool does mem tests as well as your Hardware test disc if you got one with the Mac.

I hope the memory swap works, it seemed to help others with G5's and lots of kernels. And i'm not talking popcorn.

Mikey
 
Yeah, techtool will test your memory for you. But i'd say your best bet is to just do trial and error to see which is the faulty ram. Use just the crucial ram for a week, write down the amount of kernel panics you get (if any) and then switch.

I hate to see such a beastly machine fall victim to bad memory!


Let us know how it goes
 
I used memtest to check all of my memory, and it found no errors.

I removed all the Apple ram, and I'm only using Crucial ram, and I had a freeze just now. Every program froze, including the dock (but iTunes still played music in the background), with the spinning beach ball. I had to hold the Power button to shut the machine off and reset.

Here's the latest crash log. Anyone know what it means?

*********

Tue Feb 3 09:14:05 2004

panic(cpu 1): Unexpected user state trap(cpu 1): 0x00000008 DSISR=0x42000000 DAR=0x00000000294EB000 PC=0x000000000575FA78, MSR=0x100000000200F030

Latest stack backtrace for cpu 1:
Backtrace:
0x000833B8 0x0008389C 0x0001ED8C 0x000909F4 0x00093B8C
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x2846D280)
PC=0x0575FA78; MSR=0x0200F030; DAR=0x294EB000; DSISR=0x42000000; LR=0x0575F3E4; R1=0xBFFFC7D0; XCP=0x00000008 (0x200 - Machine check)

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 7.2.0:
Thu Dec 11 16:20:23 PST 2003; root:xnu/xnu-517.3.7.obj~1/RELEASE_PPC

*********

Wed Feb 4 16:29:14 2004

panic(cpu 1): Unexpected user state trap(cpu 1): 0x00000008 DSISR=0x42000000 DAR=0x0000000004994008 PC=0x0000000090001800, MSR=0x100000000200F030

Latest stack backtrace for cpu 1:
Backtrace:
0x000833B8 0x0008389C 0x0001ED8C 0x000909F4 0x00093B8C
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x00955A00)
PC=0x90001800; MSR=0x0200F030; DAR=0x04994008; DSISR=0x42000000; LR=0x90001260; R1=0xBFFFE480; XCP=0x00000008 (0x200 - Machine check)

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 7.2.0:
Thu Dec 11 16:20:23 PST 2003; root:xnu/xnu-517.3.7.obj~1/RELEASE_PPC

*********

Wed Feb 4 17:09:13 2004

panic(cpu 1): Unexpected user state trap(cpu 1): 0x00000008 DSISR=0x42000000 DAR=0x0000000004994008 PC=0x0000000090001800, MSR=0x100000000200F030

Latest stack backtrace for cpu 1:
Backtrace:
0x000833B8 0x0008389C 0x0001ED8C 0x000909F4 0x00093B8C
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x00955A00)
PC=0x90001800; MSR=0x0200F030; DAR=0x04994008; DSISR=0x42000000; LR=0x90001260; R1=0xBFFFE480; XCP=0x00000008 (0x200 - Machine check)

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 7.2.0:
Thu Dec 11 16:20:23 PST 2003; root:xnu/xnu-517.3.7.obj~1/RELEASE_PPC

*********

Wed Feb 4 17:20:11 2004

panic(cpu 1): Unexpected user state trap(cpu 1): 0x00000008 DSISR=0x42000000 DAR=0x00000000E11CD000 PC=0x0000000090001800, MSR=0x100000000000F030

Latest stack backtrace for cpu 1:
Backtrace:
0x000833B8 0x0008389C 0x0001ED8C 0x000909F4 0x00093B8C
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x1D9BA000)
PC=0x90001800; MSR=0x0000F030; DAR=0xE11CD000; DSISR=0x42000000; LR=0x90001260; R1=0xBFFFEBA0; XCP=0x00000008 (0x200 - Machine check)

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 7.2.0:
Thu Dec 11 16:20:23 PST 2003; root:xnu/xnu-517.3.7.obj~1/RELEASE_PPC

*********
 
Panic is limited (at least in this log file) to CPU 1. I wonder if maybe it is a little loose or maybe going bad. All the log entries are for CPU 1 so I am concerned you may have a bad processor or at least a bad mounting. What seems even stranger is it kept playing iTunes (probably CPU 2). This then leads me to try one more thing before going to the Apple Store for repairs.

Have you created a new user and logged in to that account and tried it out? This is a test to make sure the user folder is not corrupted or has bad files in it. You did mention the panic you had when booting from a CD so this is just a last ditch, but I am leaning towards the processor here and not the memory.

Hope this helps and I hope it comes out OK. Nice machine, bad thing to happen.

Mikey
 
macmikey said:
Panic is limited (at least in this log file) to CPU 1. I wonder if maybe it is a little loose or maybe going bad. All the log entries are for CPU 1 so I am concerned you may have a bad processor or at least a bad mounting. What seems even stranger is it kept playing iTunes (probably CPU 2). This then leads me to try one more thing before going to the Apple Store for repairs.
Click to expand...

What are the odds that I can find out myself if one of the processors is bad? I'm starting to grasp at straws, because I don't want to play the dreaded "send it to Apple, they can't duplicate the error, they send it back unfixed, I send back again, etc" game.

Due to living in a dorm, I have had the heat set to 80 degrees F much of the time to counter the horrible cold outside. Would this put the computer at too hot a temperature to operate? I thought the fans would crank on if things got too hot, but do they function based on CPU strain, and not temperature?

I dropped the temperature in the room to 73 degrees, and have tried straining the system (35 movies playing, iTunes with visualizer, a bunch of browsers/text/pics open, Photoshop going, Expose, etc.) to see if I get any failures. I have both processors maxed out at 100% usage without problem (for now).

Would I be able to duplicate the panics like this, or am I wasting my time?
 
Be sure to try the Apple RAM by itself, without the Crucial. You never know.

I had bad non-apple RAM in my al-book causing constant Kernal Panics. I got it replaced, and so-far-so-good.
 
Before worrying about RAM problems, try looking at something more simple. After the latest Panther update I had kernel panicks after 5 minutes of operation without fail. It turned out the culprit was the APC PowerChute monitoring daemon :rolleyes: . Once I removed it (AND disconnected the USB interface to the UPS) my system ran perfectly well.

See if your system has any of these third-party daemons or other system utilities that could be causing problems first.
 
michaelsanford said:
Before worrying about RAM problems, try looking at something more simple. After the latest Panther update I had kernel panicks after 5 minutes of operation without fail. It turned out the culprit was the APC PowerChute monitoring daemon :rolleyes: . Once I removed it (AND disconnected the USB interface to the UPS) my system ran perfectly well.

See if your system has any of these third-party daemons or other system utilities that could be causing problems first.
Click to expand...

I think this is a good idea, but would have no effect on booting from CD.

Mike
 
If iTunes is still playing, it's not going to be a kernel panic. If there's a kernel panic, that's the 'reboot now' screen. More likely a process that handles the GUI is hung - the windowmanager or similar.

Of course, that can be just as bad as a kernel panic if you don't have a second computer to ssh onto your comp from and kill the offending process, since the fix is the same - reboot the hard way...

In either case, bad RAM may be a cause. One reason to wonder if maybe it's something different, is the fact that it coincided with the OS upgrade, which gives us something else to suspect. It might just be that there's one or more files from the OS install that got corrupted when you did the install.

Have you got another HD? You might try installing the OS on another HD, booting off that, and seeing what sort of results you get. My wife's computer just got into a situation where it would just barely boot, and then get constant crashes/panics. I figured RAM might be a problem (no recent OS/software installs other than the usual periodic security updates), but swapping RAM out didn't do any good. We swapped hard drives, and my computer/her HD combo had the problem, her computer/my HD combo was fine.

Incidentally, taking an iMac apart is really fun.
 
I've had the two problems (programs freezing and kernel panics), and I thought they were related, but now it's not looking like it.

I haven't had a kernel panic in about two days. I have since put all of the ram back in, and kept the Activity Monitor open, and watched both processors working fine.

I'm now thinking the video card was the problem, and that it wasn't in all the way. For a few weeks now, there have been instances were the image on the screen would flicker. I assumed it was because I'm using a really old monitor, but perhaps the video card connection wasn't very good. Perhaps when I opened the case, and checked over everything, the card got set better. (The fan also had a surprising amount of dust; maybe it wasn't being cooled well enough?)

I'm still leaving the possibilities open for larger problems, but having worked in processor intensive graphics programs for two days without problem, I'm becoming optimistic.

Edit: Scruffy, your advice is sound. I want to do a format/reinstall in the coming weeks, after I'm fairly sure that the panics/freezes are over. I've just got to go out and buy enough DVDs to back up 90 gigs worth of crap. :(
 
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