I'm looking at a near spotless Apple iBook G4 with almost a dead battery which I can buy from the original owner for $300. I still think that despite the battery, the price is good, which includes a very nice carrying case. What's holding up the deal for me is the owner has none of the disks that came with his computer. This looms large in my mind as a deal breaker. Am I being too careful? The owner states he remembers only 2 disks which he can't find.
Am I being too fussy?
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ElDiabloConCaca
U.S.D.A. Prime
In my humble opinion, $300 is too much for that computer. For a mere $200 more, you can get a Mac mini (which I know is a different class of computer, but it's a fair comparison in terms of what you get).
http://www.mac2sell.net/
That site predicts that even a maxed-out, top-of-the-line, fastest processor available iBook G4 14" with a superdrive, 1GB of RAM and an 80GB hard drive is worth less than $200, and that's with a working battery.
http://www.mac2sell.net/
That site predicts that even a maxed-out, top-of-the-line, fastest processor available iBook G4 14" with a superdrive, 1GB of RAM and an 80GB hard drive is worth less than $200, and that's with a working battery.
ElDiabloConCaca
U.S.D.A. Prime
Just bear in mind that the site I linked to lists perceived value of the machine -- not what the market will actually fetch for a comparable computer.
Continuing with my opinion, and again, this is only my personal opinion, I would think that any Mac not using an Intel processor is a dead-end road, only for "collectors" and Mac-enthusiasts who like to tinker. The maximum operating system that will run on any PowerPC-based Mac is Leopard (Mac OS X 10.5). The iBooks can hold less than 2GB of RAM. They use older IDE-based drives. They don't make many parts for them anymore.
For $300, I think you can put that toward a computer that is much better suited for future needs and demands.
Continuing with my opinion, and again, this is only my personal opinion, I would think that any Mac not using an Intel processor is a dead-end road, only for "collectors" and Mac-enthusiasts who like to tinker. The maximum operating system that will run on any PowerPC-based Mac is Leopard (Mac OS X 10.5). The iBooks can hold less than 2GB of RAM. They use older IDE-based drives. They don't make many parts for them anymore.
For $300, I think you can put that toward a computer that is much better suited for future needs and demands.
As impressed as I am with your premises, I must confess that my preference for a late g4 isn't as well reasoned. The reality is I've barely mastered the g3 iBook. I figured that if I got a more sophisticated version of my machine, I could do what I doing right out of the box, but better. However, I would like to be more conversant with computers and should challenge myself more. While I don't understand everything you've written, you've managed to say it in a way that makes me want to take a bigger step than I had planned.
I'd be grateful if you would identify a machine or two that I might consider.
I'd be grateful if you would identify a machine or two that I might consider.
ElDiabloConCaca
U.S.D.A. Prime
If you're not looking for a portable (laptop) computer, then the Mac mini is a good fit -- it's powerful enough (much more powerful than either a G3 or a G4 anything) and is relatively inexpensive.
If you're looking to get into the portable market with a laptop, then brand-new, you're looking at a minimum of $1,000 for an Apple-branded laptop... however, MacBooks can be had, used or refurbished, for much less. A good place to check is Low End Mac's "Deals" page:
http://www.lowendmac.com/deals.shtml
For as little as $600, you can get a MacBook that will blow the iBook G4 out of the water in terms of performance and longevity.
http://www.lowendmac.com/deals/best-macbook-prices.html
I would avoid any Apple computer that still has a PowerPC processor, as they've already got both feet in the grave and will no longer be supported (in terms of operating system) by Apple in the very near future. The most recent release of Mac OS X (Snow Leopard) will not run on anything but Apple computers with Intel processors.
If you're looking to get into the portable market with a laptop, then brand-new, you're looking at a minimum of $1,000 for an Apple-branded laptop... however, MacBooks can be had, used or refurbished, for much less. A good place to check is Low End Mac's "Deals" page:
http://www.lowendmac.com/deals.shtml
For as little as $600, you can get a MacBook that will blow the iBook G4 out of the water in terms of performance and longevity.
http://www.lowendmac.com/deals/best-macbook-prices.html
I would avoid any Apple computer that still has a PowerPC processor, as they've already got both feet in the grave and will no longer be supported (in terms of operating system) by Apple in the very near future. The most recent release of Mac OS X (Snow Leopard) will not run on anything but Apple computers with Intel processors.
Doctor X
Registered
No.
Aside from what ElDiablo writes--which is quite true--this place is littered with pleas from visitors who have a problem and do NOT have their installation disks.
Further, lack of such disks always should raise suspicious as to whether or not the computer was "acquired by means not traditionally considered 'honorable.'"
--J.D.
ElDiabloConCaca
U.S.D.A. Prime
I know I've beaten this analogy to death, but I believe it's still applicable to this day (and carries with it the same weight in terms of importance):
You wouldn't buy a used car if the owner wouldn't supply the keys... and you should not purchase a computer if the owner is not willing to supply the original install/restore CDs/DVDs that came with the computer.
Buying a computer without the original install/restore discs is like purchasing a used car where the owner supplies you with only a picture of the keys.
The original install/restore discs that came with the computer are your ticket to general troubleshooting, reinstallation and maintenance. While the computer may function fine without them, the day will most definitely come when you need those discs, and then you're up a creek without them.
On the other hand, the site I linked to above (lowendmac.com) and the deals you'll find through 3rd parties will most likely NOT supply you with the original discs that came with the computer a lot of times. It is up to the buyer to acquire a set of discs (and this is another reason I recommend purchasing an Intel Mac over a PowerPC Mac), which can be purchased through Apple's online store. If you purchase a G4, then you will need to locate a retail copy of Leopard -- which is difficult to do for a reasonable price (no one sells it anymore unless you can find it used, and even then, it's a crap-shoot on what you're going to get). If you purchase an Intel-based Mac, then you can simply pick up the newest retail version of Snow Leopard, sold throughout the world and easily had.
You wouldn't buy a used car if the owner wouldn't supply the keys... and you should not purchase a computer if the owner is not willing to supply the original install/restore CDs/DVDs that came with the computer.
Buying a computer without the original install/restore discs is like purchasing a used car where the owner supplies you with only a picture of the keys.
The original install/restore discs that came with the computer are your ticket to general troubleshooting, reinstallation and maintenance. While the computer may function fine without them, the day will most definitely come when you need those discs, and then you're up a creek without them.
On the other hand, the site I linked to above (lowendmac.com) and the deals you'll find through 3rd parties will most likely NOT supply you with the original discs that came with the computer a lot of times. It is up to the buyer to acquire a set of discs (and this is another reason I recommend purchasing an Intel Mac over a PowerPC Mac), which can be purchased through Apple's online store. If you purchase a G4, then you will need to locate a retail copy of Leopard -- which is difficult to do for a reasonable price (no one sells it anymore unless you can find it used, and even then, it's a crap-shoot on what you're going to get). If you purchase an Intel-based Mac, then you can simply pick up the newest retail version of Snow Leopard, sold throughout the world and easily had.
Doctor X
Registered
It always amazes me: "I lost them!"
How do you lose them? Seriously. I am a complete idiot when it comes to remembering things. I have become lost in phonebooths. I have lost glasses on my face. Bodies of ex-girl . . . right, I lose things.
I have never lost those disks. This includes from before when I KNEW why you should have them. When they gathered dust in a box and I tried to figure out a problem in System 7.
I will also add to your point regarding "PowerPC" is a dead end. Sorry, it is. I loved OS 9 back in the day . . . now nothing runs on it. Further, the "thing to do" is to "thin" your Universal applications to leave the Intel. So, as you state, that would be $300 for an already obsolete computer.
I will further also add that there is nothing "scary" to learn in OS 10.6 compared to earlier OS.
He will do fine.
--J.D.
How do you lose them? Seriously. I am a complete idiot when it comes to remembering things. I have become lost in phonebooths. I have lost glasses on my face. Bodies of ex-girl . . . right, I lose things.
I have never lost those disks. This includes from before when I KNEW why you should have them. When they gathered dust in a box and I tried to figure out a problem in System 7.
I will also add to your point regarding "PowerPC" is a dead end. Sorry, it is. I loved OS 9 back in the day . . . now nothing runs on it. Further, the "thing to do" is to "thin" your Universal applications to leave the Intel. So, as you state, that would be $300 for an already obsolete computer.
I will further also add that there is nothing "scary" to learn in OS 10.6 compared to earlier OS.
He will do fine.
--J.D.
nixgeek
Mac of the SubGenius! :-)
I'd have to agree with Doctor X on the PowerPC. Even some Linux distributions are dropping official PowerPC support, which saddens me because I did love the PowerPC platform. Most have already said it, but I have to agree that the $300 price for an iBook G4 is way too much. I would definitely go with EDCC's recommendation of an earlier-generation MacBook. You would be able to run Snow Leopard and all current Mac apps, especially since 10.4 is losing support from developers now and 10.5 won't be far behind soon enough.
sgould
Registered
I have an Intel MacMini and an Intel MacBook which are fully up to date. Buying a G4 as a main machine will limit support in future very soon.
If it has no discs and no battery, I would say you should get it for nothing! A set of retail discs and a battery will cost a lot. Does it have a working power lead/charger? If not that's another big expense.
I upgraded our old G4 iBook to 10.5 and it's OK, but it's only useful as a backup/spare which we use on driving holidays and in hotels and other places where the risk of theft & breakage is higher. It's really seen as a disposable item now.
If it has no discs and no battery, I would say you should get it for nothing! A set of retail discs and a battery will cost a lot. Does it have a working power lead/charger? If not that's another big expense.
I upgraded our old G4 iBook to 10.5 and it's OK, but it's only useful as a backup/spare which we use on driving holidays and in hotels and other places where the risk of theft & breakage is higher. It's really seen as a disposable item now.
ElDiabloConCaca
You've been so forthcoming, I can't resist asking one last question to save myself reams of reading. I rejected the Mac mini because it's so unlike anything I've used that it makes me uncomfortable, but the MacBook looks exactly like the machine I'm using and therefore gives me a feeling of security.
I would appreciate it if you would reconsider what you've written in light of my needs. I use a computer solely for research. I have no interest in anything else a computer does. To accommodate my research, all I need is email to communicate with colleagues. I know most persons like to use a computer to download music, store photos, play computer games, and pursue scores of other interests. I'm not into any of that. Having read what I've just written, would you change anything you've written?
Doctor X
Many thanx
You've been so forthcoming, I can't resist asking one last question to save myself reams of reading. I rejected the Mac mini because it's so unlike anything I've used that it makes me uncomfortable, but the MacBook looks exactly like the machine I'm using and therefore gives me a feeling of security.
I would appreciate it if you would reconsider what you've written in light of my needs. I use a computer solely for research. I have no interest in anything else a computer does. To accommodate my research, all I need is email to communicate with colleagues. I know most persons like to use a computer to download music, store photos, play computer games, and pursue scores of other interests. I'm not into any of that. Having read what I've just written, would you change anything you've written?
Doctor X
Many thanx
ElDiabloConCaca
U.S.D.A. Prime
I might reconsider, yes, if you only use the computer for email and nothing more. An older computer would fulfill that need for a time. If you use a web browser as well, it may also suffice for a time.
You'll have to search for a replacement and pay another $300 sometime in the future when that iBook G4 stops working. A $600 computer may last more than twice as long as the iBook.
So, yeah, you could get back up and running with the iBook G4 just fine, although I still don't think it's the best deal you can get for an iBook in that condition.
This is more along the lines of what I think they're worth:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Apple-iBook-G4-...iewItemQQptZApple_Laptops?hash=item1e5b33d3a0
Could you post the specifications (or provide a link to) the current one you're considering?
You'll have to search for a replacement and pay another $300 sometime in the future when that iBook G4 stops working. A $600 computer may last more than twice as long as the iBook.
So, yeah, you could get back up and running with the iBook G4 just fine, although I still don't think it's the best deal you can get for an iBook in that condition.
This is more along the lines of what I think they're worth:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Apple-iBook-G4-...iewItemQQptZApple_Laptops?hash=item1e5b33d3a0
Could you post the specifications (or provide a link to) the current one you're considering?