Any news on the G4/G5 progress ?

hELLO wORLD

Registered
MOSR, AppleInsider and ThinkSecret are not focusing on processors news theses times.

Apple has launched 733 G4 PowerMacs, and it is a good move, but is is only 233 MHz + in more than a year !!

Motorola research team rocks since G4 is a better µP than any Pentium or AMD, but Moto production team really suck since 1GHz PIII is better than 733 G4 (John Carmak debate...).

A good article in ArsTechnica show us the G4 is better designed than AMD(P7), and is ready for optimisations and improvments (sorry I have lost the link). However P7 have advantages (more processing units) and is similar to the G4 in many ways. This article demonstrate that CISC and RISC debate is terminated, we are in the post-RISC era, and both P7 and G4 are post-RISC processors.

This MHz gap has to be reduced very very quickly !!!

Any news on Moto researches ? On PowerPC alliance (AMD participation on G4 production and improvments ?), any news on G5 advancment and scheduling ?
Any news on Altivec patent to be bought by Apple or rights of production sold to AMD ?

I don't care if PCs are as fast as Macs, since MacOS is better (in my opinion). But if Macintosh becomes slower than the best PC, I will have a bad feeling.
Steve Jobs said to analysts that Macs are to be the BEST computers, and it is the reason why low-end iMac costs 100$ more : all macs have FireWire now !
So BEST computers have to reach best speeds !!!

Good work Apple, good work Motorola research team, but please find QUICKLY a way to procuce 1+ GHz G4 !!
I don't want to see 1.5 GHz G5 with 3 GHz Pentiums VI...
We have to reach 1 GHz at last for MWNY 2001. And we have to reach same (or near) MHz frequencies than Pentiums in 6 months max (autumn 2001).
By 2002 we have to reach and keep parity (minimum) with PC procs.
Of course, more processing units (integer, foating point...), more Altivec modules (and true 64 bits with MacOS X 64 bits for early 2002).

And hardware have to be improved to have the best computers :
+ true UMA-2 architecture
+ Ultra-ATA 100 (minimum)
+ AGP 8x as soon as it comes to the market
+ 200 MHz system bus as soon as possible
+ 128 Mb MIN (low end iMacs) and 196 Mb MIN (G4s)
+ DVD/CD-RW combo as soon as possible in all models except SuperDrive
+ Surround sound, 32 bits, and a Mic-In is all models
+ WebCam in iMacs

Those improvments are not easy to implement, and I'm sure Apple is working hard on these. But I don't want our favorite platform to miss that train. Not now ! Not with this great MacOS X coming !

Go Apple Go !!! All your job is great, and I am expecting great things from you !
MacOS X is a killer !! Let's make killer Hardware now :)
 

boult

Member
don't forget about MHZ Myth!!!! at macworld expo tokyo Jobs says 733mhz is like 2Ghz to Pentinum 1.5Ghz

if we get 1Ghz then it is overkill (cuz it would be like a 3Ghz)
 

zpincus

Registered
Originally posted by boult
don't forget about MHZ Myth!!!! at macworld expo tokyo Jobs says 733mhz is like 2Ghz to Pentinum 1.5Ghz
...if all you do is run altivec-enhanced photoshop filters all day. While the g3/4 core may do more per clock cycle, it isn't doing twice as much. A 1.5 Ghz P3 can, unfortunately, spank our beloved machines in pretty much anything but the most vector-heavy, altivec-enhanced applications. Sorry.

Zach

(They don't call it the "Steve Jobs reality distortion field" for nothing!)
 

hELLO wORLD

Registered
This is so true Zach... :-(

boult, that's right that G4 have better performance than Pentiums at the same speed, and it is true that there is a MHz myth. However, a G4 733 can't do as many tasks as a P III @ 1+ GHz... Except of course Altivec specific tasks, as Zach said.

One solution is to make a G4 with more processing units, more integer and floating units. In this way, at the same frequency, the µP could do more things (increased mips and gigaflops). The 7450 has more Altivec units for exemple, and it is a step in the right direction. However, it is not sufficient.

Hopefully, G4 architecture permits to increase frequency (pipeline) and features.

I really hope we will reach at last 1 GHz for MWNY ! It is possible if Apple push Motorola, AMD, IBM and all involved persons NOW and QUICKLY !!!

One more thing, Apple have to learn from its experience. When they expect to ship a new product in 3 days, just say one week. If timing is respected, people will have good surprise to see shipment in advance. If problems are encountered, this give extra-time to Apple, and CREDIBILITY !!!!

Please Apple, MWNY should be perfect ! No shipment delays (ANTICIPATE PLEASE), no new HW glitches (like TiBook DVD...), New Pro Macs (G4@1GHz, UMA-2, ATA-100), New consumer Macs (iMac reach 1GHz with 750CXe starting from 600 MHz and AGP 4X and a better graphic card, like radeon light), enhanced Cube, enhanced PowerBook (AGP 4X with radeon or nvidia or BTO...)
More memory !!! It will be MacOS X era

And all things I have laready suggested...
 

hELLO wORLD

Registered
One more thing for MWNY HW :

USB-2 on every computers (to be competitive with Wintels one)
and of course a faster FireWire 800 Mb/sec !

And I have forget iBooks ! Larger screen, more memory and connectivity.

A killer mouse that can be one or two (or three?) buttons, maybe a wireless one ! That would be so Appleish... One wire to the powerplug, one other to the keyboard, and... that's all ! AirPort for Internet...

AirPort 2...

DVD/CD-RW combo please !!! Choice between CD/RW or DVD has not to be done. Both are important now, leave DVD is missing a train. And this in every Macs, even low-end iMac !

Apple have to regain the spirit it has in 1998 with news iMacs. SIMPLICITY and HORSEPOWER

Software now :
we should have AppleWorks bundled with every Mac (and an new version?).
iTunes (of course)
more games bundled
iMovie
Carbon Adobe PhotoDeluxe bundled with every Mac (Altivec enhaunced)
a ton of freewares and stuff like Fire.App, OmniWeb, Omni...
A TELEPHONY SOFTWARE !!!!!
a fax managment software as a MacOS X service !
Anything that a new user could look for, and in several domains (edition, education, utilities, games, internet, database, word processing, spreadsheet, movie editing, music, etc...)
A lot a software (not necessarily high end, but consumer oriented(like Adobe Photodeluxe (only 49$))

The more software, the more impact MacOS X will have on public, medias and consumers. People will have the impression that this new OS can do lotsa things (things consumers do the most with their computer) and is ready for the present, ready to replace MacOS 9 or Win...
 

AdmiralAK

Simply Daemonic
Hmmm.....
While we are at it, and describing the hardware we want.... How about more, better, cheaper cinematic (DVD aspect ratio) screens :)

Surround sound and DVD will go great with this new type-o-screen ;)


Admiral
 

nada

Registered
Like to participate with my visions of the future when reading yours =)

PowerBook Ti - right way to go.. put in a Nvidia GeForce 2 Mobile until 3 has gone mobile (probb more than a year ahead)..Or RADEON Mobile.. BTO options would be it.. Then fix the anoying hatch in the back, where the bottom of the LCD screens hangs over and make it difficult to eject near all the cables attached there..Just flip the connections upside down or get rid of the overhang fast ..

Also make an BTO for a CDRW drive or why not even a combo DVD-ROM/CDRW drive..

PowerMac G4 - Speed speed speed.. its the only thing which can make PC users to get rid of their crap..both Mhz speeds in CPU aswell as fast graphicscard.. the GeForce 3 is a VERY VERY good way to start. UMA-2 ASAP.. DDR-SDRAM and faster bus speeds...MP in 2x and 4x is also a possible way to get more buyers..

Cube - discontinue

iBook - have no suggestion for this.. why not make 2 versions of the Ti instead? One G3 and one G4 or something like that..

iMac - has done its job i think.. Was the no.1 some years ago.. now it has nothing to come with any more.. too small CRT (needs to be atleast 17"), better graphic card, faster etc etc..

So.. why not get rid of the iMac aswell and transform the Cube + iMac into something new.. BTO screens, (LCD as rumors says?), GeForce 2 or 3, G4 etc..

The future is G4 and later G5..

Ive read above that some like the Motorola team.. im not really that positive to them.. Have read rumors that IBM had much faster G4s months if not years ago than Moto yet hasnt come up too. But coz Moto has the patent of the Altivec and much of the G4 (am i right?) this stops IBM to launch their G4s...Its also IBM who come up with all the new methods like Copper, SOI and more.. Apple put your cards on IBM instead of Moto.. then you probb get faster and higher clockrates more often.

The law (forgot the name for the moment) which says the Mhz dubbles every 18month isnt right when talking about Motorolas CPUs.. =)

(sorry for my eventually bad english)

Nice discussions due..

 

g3ski

Registered
We need more Mhz NOW, Why didn't apple......

.....Make the 667 and 733 G4 Macs with Dual processor options now. I know that the chips are in short supply (bad motorola, bad motorola). When the 667/733 chips become available in large quantity, then Mac owners could get another 667+Mhz for just $150-250. Hmmm, why didn't they think of that. Maybe it has to do with the fact that the 7450 is different architeturally that the 7460 and they didn't expect to the make the 7450 for very long.

Another request: G4 Tower that can hold two 5.25" drives. Give me a DVD and a CD-RW in the Tower and stop debating over which one is better. Dell can do it in a $1200 tower, Apple has to be able to do it in a $1700-3600 Tower.

Hopefully the next G4 Tower will give us this flexibility of multiple processors and multiple drives.
 
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