Apple should re-enter innovation.
- Thread starter fryke
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Quicksilver
Find a golden apple.
i Think iTablet (stupid name) is good infact the pocket pc market im sure is now starting to rise i see more and more people everyday use pocket pc's in there work, one in particular is the xphone & xda. I think it is an innovative area and just mearly a blind spot for larger corporations. of course the way i see it, its first in best dressed people want them but the ones they really want are almost as much as some computer systems themselves. I'm sure if there was one that was fun and not 100% business oriented/marketed. mabey set as a home consumer device, people would like that.
I wish newton os was open source I have a friend who already re designed an os x like colour interface that slightly works, It looks really cool. I dont know what code he is using though mabey the graphics were translated or somthing. In fact im surprised how some of the features in newton os 2.1 resemble some os X features but really scaled down, eg: the trash, the way you delete an item, that dock. and animations, etc.
what ever apple does im sure its for their best interests. I havent seen "think different" around for a while though.
I wish newton os was open source I have a friend who already re designed an os x like colour interface that slightly works, It looks really cool. I dont know what code he is using though mabey the graphics were translated or somthing. In fact im surprised how some of the features in newton os 2.1 resemble some os X features but really scaled down, eg: the trash, the way you delete an item, that dock. and animations, etc.
what ever apple does im sure its for their best interests. I havent seen "think different" around for a while though.
I disagree. He may have disliked the Newton in the past (when it just cost Apple money!), but he quite certainly likes the concept and technology. Some of the ideas were brought to Mac OS X (even Ink). Thus what I've said: A PIM-device that inspires people to communicate.
MacMuppet
Registered
Interesting article, Fryke. I see the point you are making but I personally disagree about Apple not innovating (recently) in the hardware arena.
Granted, a major seeling point of the first iMac was its 'cuteness', guaranteeing its installation in Ad Agencies and female staffed industries the world over - but I think there's more to it than that.
Yes the early Macintoshes were all-in-one, and I daresay there were a few PCs out there the same, but I believe they revolutionised the computer market with the iMac.
I'm talking about its overall effect - you'll notice a lack of all-in-one PCs and out there, so one could hardly argue it had a direct affect of form factor throughout the industry - but its the attitude change it affected.
They showed that functional equipment doesnt have to be ugly, and that it can be aeshetically pleasing (at least compared to a dusty cable-tastic beige box) while still being efficient. The ports and plugs on the side, the one-hand carrying handle.
I believe that the iMac got a lot of people on the right side of the digital divide by making the physical object more desirable, or at least less repellant.
The keyboard and mouse! Yes they were crap, but they got everyone thinking, didnt they?
I have some further points about the iPod but I have to go and work for a living....
Granted, a major seeling point of the first iMac was its 'cuteness', guaranteeing its installation in Ad Agencies and female staffed industries the world over - but I think there's more to it than that.
Yes the early Macintoshes were all-in-one, and I daresay there were a few PCs out there the same, but I believe they revolutionised the computer market with the iMac.
I'm talking about its overall effect - you'll notice a lack of all-in-one PCs and out there, so one could hardly argue it had a direct affect of form factor throughout the industry - but its the attitude change it affected.
They showed that functional equipment doesnt have to be ugly, and that it can be aeshetically pleasing (at least compared to a dusty cable-tastic beige box) while still being efficient. The ports and plugs on the side, the one-hand carrying handle.
I believe that the iMac got a lot of people on the right side of the digital divide by making the physical object more desirable, or at least less repellant.
The keyboard and mouse! Yes they were crap, but they got everyone thinking, didnt they?
I have some further points about the iPod but I have to go and work for a living....
Quicksilver
Find a golden apple.
fryke said:
Yes i saw it on a pocket pc, it was back at uni just before os X.2 was released
Out of interest. Ever since then ive been trying to find somone who could or if it is possible to translate the os handlers through means of custom written software or somthing, so that we can change the apperance of the screen and possibly use colour. i dont know if its possible but ive put alot of authentic thought into it, theoreticly it works.
This is somthing ive been interested in since, and only been really having ago at PDA, XDA or what ever *DA development over the last 6 months i have all newton os's as well as HP pocket Pc and O2 XDA.
From my opinion apple is too right about not entering the PDA market, but like i believe, i think what ever the iPod may evolve into its definatley got what everyone wants.
The potential future of the iPod is Huge.
As far as PocketPCs (some form of embedded Windows OS) is concerned, the newer versions like 2002 and up support themeing but not very much can be changed. Most of the OS is stored on ROM or flash ROM so it isn't so easy to change system files.Quicksilver said:
Another alternative is to write a full screen app, and over ride the custom drawing of widges to use your own drawing routines. I'm working on a project right now for a client who wanted the PockPC app to be colored in their theme colors. I basically rewrote the basic widgets like buttons, checkboxes, radio buttons, etc. You can do that now with a normal app, but you're still limited to just the client area of the main window, child windows can be repainted all throughout. Hence the suggestion to go full screen app. Then you can draw your own menus, title bars, and such.
I've seen people write a GUI for GameBoy, GameBoy Advanced. Same idea, except in this case we're just hiding the native interface.
Quicksilver
Find a golden apple.
Thanks for that Lycander. Do you know of any good sites i can look at? its a jungle out there.
TommyWillB
Registered
I'm having a hard time deciding how I feel about this topic.
I do look to Apple to WOW! me with great new things. But that does not automatically mean new features and gadgets.
As RacerX suggested, we look to Apple to make things that work. Apple's iTunes certainly was not the first MP3 player, and where iTunes excels over the others (ignoring the ITMS part) is its "it just WORKS" brand of Apple usability.
With that said, I'm not sure if making something "workable" qualifiies as "innovation" or mere "evolution". Do a number of small improvements = innovation, or does the term innovation only apply to big "disruptive" things? (Many, like this month's Wired magazine, ask if innovation can be measured by the # of patents a company holds... but I don't agree with that.) Maybe is is, as mi5moav's suggested, "(things) that aliens would visit to see".
To me there have only been a handfull of Apple creations that everyone (not just Mac loyalists) agree were truely innovative.
I don't mean that list to be exhaustive... But I am trying to make the point that we should not expect world-changing innovation on a daily/weekly/annual basis. True innovations come when the orginization and spirit of a company are in perfect alignment.
I don't see any particular need to say at any moment in time if Apple IS or IS NO innovative... Over it's lifetime it IS, so just sit back and wait to see what comes next, even if it's 5 years into the future... or, as chevy suggested, it takes us 5 years into the futrue to recognize the innovations we already have. (personally, I'm still if the iPod qualifies?)
I do look to Apple to WOW! me with great new things. But that does not automatically mean new features and gadgets.
As RacerX suggested, we look to Apple to make things that work. Apple's iTunes certainly was not the first MP3 player, and where iTunes excels over the others (ignoring the ITMS part) is its "it just WORKS" brand of Apple usability.
With that said, I'm not sure if making something "workable" qualifiies as "innovation" or mere "evolution". Do a number of small improvements = innovation, or does the term innovation only apply to big "disruptive" things? (Many, like this month's Wired magazine, ask if innovation can be measured by the # of patents a company holds... but I don't agree with that.) Maybe is is, as mi5moav's suggested, "(things) that aliens would visit to see".
To me there have only been a handfull of Apple creations that everyone (not just Mac loyalists) agree were truely innovative.
- Mac OS GUI (as released with the 512k "Macintosh" Classic)
- The tight Hardware/OS integration that enabled "Plug-and'Play" before that term even existed
- The native multimedia capabilites that enabled Desktop Publishing, and Music/Video creation
- The iMac
- iTunes Music Store (and IMHO it's prececessor Kodak picture printing in iPhoto)
I don't mean that list to be exhaustive... But I am trying to make the point that we should not expect world-changing innovation on a daily/weekly/annual basis. True innovations come when the orginization and spirit of a company are in perfect alignment.
I don't see any particular need to say at any moment in time if Apple IS or IS NO innovative... Over it's lifetime it IS, so just sit back and wait to see what comes next, even if it's 5 years into the future... or, as chevy suggested, it takes us 5 years into the futrue to recognize the innovations we already have. (personally, I'm still if the iPod qualifies?)
TommyWillB
Registered
So I have a soft spot for Apple when they fail simply because they are a few years too early.Randman said:
I this this was the problem with the Newton (Message Pad). It WAS innovative, but the technology was not good enough to make it Palm Pilot sized, so it failed. I truely beleive we'll see another fanless computer like the cube, but most people will fail to rember that Apple did it first.
Probably we can have the same discussion about the Pippin vs. the X Box.
I want Apple to innovate, but I don't want their R&D expenditures to turn out to be fi$cal failures for Apple and free R&D for the rest of the industry.
I agree to that. I also think that, while we're speaking, there _are_ people at Apple spending R&D expenditures that turn out to be fiscal failures. ;-) We might just not have seen them in the recent past, because they haven't found their way to the market. iPod II is such a subject I happen to know about. The 'videoPod' has been developed and put on hold. Apple has all the jigsaw-piezes to put together 'new' stuff. But, of course, new doesn't always mean success.
Mac OS X is on a good way (as Racer X has emphasized), however, that too doesn't yet mean success.
The innovations _I_ meant filled a gap that no-one else had seen before the release of a product (or a concept, even). Maybe not even the guys that invented them, sometimes.
The more we discuss this, the more my original thought becomes clear to me, which is a good thing (and why I started this discussion). I guess what really annoyed me was Steve Jobs saying something like: "We're innovating through this dark period." I expected more from that. Whether that's Steve's or my own fault... Steve also called the year 2003 the year of the notebook. But I guess he very well _knew_ that it was the going to be the year of 64bit computing. I guess the lack of 64bit computers by Apple at the beginning of 2003 made him switch the speech. But: I expected more from Apple's notebooks than what they brought us in 2003 (_after_ the 12" and 17" introduction, I mean).
Maybe I'm just growing older... But I kind of liked those days. Remember? Steve Jobs was back at Apple, and we didn't hear much. Then Apple's homepage only showed a cookie, a book and some third item I can't remember exactly. And out of _NOwhere_ came the iMac. While the iMac for me wasn't the kind of innovation I was talking about initially, that _event_ back then gave the platform - and my evangelism - a good old spin. And it gave the fellowship of the Mac momentum.
I just hope. I hope for more. Maybe we'll see some at WWDC 2004...
Mac OS X is on a good way (as Racer X has emphasized), however, that too doesn't yet mean success.
The innovations _I_ meant filled a gap that no-one else had seen before the release of a product (or a concept, even). Maybe not even the guys that invented them, sometimes.
The more we discuss this, the more my original thought becomes clear to me, which is a good thing (and why I started this discussion). I guess what really annoyed me was Steve Jobs saying something like: "We're innovating through this dark period." I expected more from that. Whether that's Steve's or my own fault... Steve also called the year 2003 the year of the notebook. But I guess he very well _knew_ that it was the going to be the year of 64bit computing. I guess the lack of 64bit computers by Apple at the beginning of 2003 made him switch the speech. But: I expected more from Apple's notebooks than what they brought us in 2003 (_after_ the 12" and 17" introduction, I mean).
Maybe I'm just growing older... But I kind of liked those days. Remember? Steve Jobs was back at Apple, and we didn't hear much. Then Apple's homepage only showed a cookie, a book and some third item I can't remember exactly. And out of _NOwhere_ came the iMac. While the iMac for me wasn't the kind of innovation I was talking about initially, that _event_ back then gave the platform - and my evangelism - a good old spin. And it gave the fellowship of the Mac momentum.
I just hope. I hope for more. Maybe we'll see some at WWDC 2004...
Randman
HA! HA! HA!
Fryke, I think you're jaded and looking for more PUNCH from Apple. If you look at the upgrades to the laptop line especially the iBooks, that's pretty impressive [but people want G5 PowerBooks yesterday]. The G5s are a wonder to behold [but people want 3 GhZ and up]. iPods are great and the iTMS is a hit [but people want video/cellphone/pda iPods]. Panther's a great OS, the best so far [but people are already tired of it and are calling for Tiger].
It truly sounds like many people aren't so much asking for innovation as they are instant gratification.
A few years ago, I spent more than a grand on a clamshell iBook. 366 mhz, 6 GB hard drive, no firewire, OS 9, etc, etc. And I was so happy with it. It was a great alternative to PowerBooks, which were more expensive, I used PowerMacs at work so I had access to greater power and the Airport-enabled clamshell served my surfing/e-mail purposes just fine. That was in 2000.
Less than 4 years later, I paid slightly less for a brand-new 1 Ghz, G4 iBook with 60 Gb hard drive, FireWire and 10.3. And there's more to do with it these days as far as applications go. And it's even more powerful than the old towers I used for so long at work.
Maybe that's not innovation, but that is surely progress. And progress is more than good enough, in my humble opinion.
ps, welcome back Tommy. Thought aliens abducted you along with the other MIAs.
It truly sounds like many people aren't so much asking for innovation as they are instant gratification.
A few years ago, I spent more than a grand on a clamshell iBook. 366 mhz, 6 GB hard drive, no firewire, OS 9, etc, etc. And I was so happy with it. It was a great alternative to PowerBooks, which were more expensive, I used PowerMacs at work so I had access to greater power and the Airport-enabled clamshell served my surfing/e-mail purposes just fine. That was in 2000.
Less than 4 years later, I paid slightly less for a brand-new 1 Ghz, G4 iBook with 60 Gb hard drive, FireWire and 10.3. And there's more to do with it these days as far as applications go. And it's even more powerful than the old towers I used for so long at work.
Maybe that's not innovation, but that is surely progress. And progress is more than good enough, in my humble opinion.
ps, welcome back Tommy. Thought aliens abducted you along with the other MIAs.
Fryke seems to have read the same eWeek article I commented on last week. See thread http://www.macosx.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43561.
A mostly Windows user, I summarized the reasons why I feel that Apple continues to innovate. OK, they slipped behind on USB 2.0 but do you see a single PC with Firewire 800?
I noticed the article in MacRumors about Apple's patent on unused windows that turn transparent (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/05/20040517100757.shtml). I thought of that idea years ago - who hasn't? The fact that it hasn't shown up yet in Windows or Mac makes you wonder... But, like Expose, it's one more way to make the machine easier to use.
Innovation isn't necessarily about ground-breaking new technology. It's about making things better, no matter how minor the improvement.
A mostly Windows user, I summarized the reasons why I feel that Apple continues to innovate. OK, they slipped behind on USB 2.0 but do you see a single PC with Firewire 800?
I noticed the article in MacRumors about Apple's patent on unused windows that turn transparent (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/05/20040517100757.shtml). I thought of that idea years ago - who hasn't? The fact that it hasn't shown up yet in Windows or Mac makes you wonder... But, like Expose, it's one more way to make the machine easier to use.
Innovation isn't necessarily about ground-breaking new technology. It's about making things better, no matter how minor the improvement.
If you don't leave out the first part of Ripcord's sentence, it's true, though. "Without continual (continuing?) innovation ..." -> Apple becomes more and more irrelevant.
He's exactly right. But they, of course, _are_ innovating. Just not in a big way right now. But I see them leading in hardware design, I see them leading in operating system and UI design...
But you can't just take _half_ of someone's text and say she/he's wrong.
He's exactly right. But they, of course, _are_ innovating. Just not in a big way right now. But I see them leading in hardware design, I see them leading in operating system and UI design...
But you can't just take _half_ of someone's text and say she/he's wrong.