Apple - two words to consider: "Home Automation"

karavite

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Though centralized and automated audio/video equipment is pretty much limited to the upper crust budgets, this is a field that is expanding.

For the life of me, I cannot understand why Apple's digital hub strategy has not expanded to provide affordable and really cool options for home automation. Why can't iTunes serve up music via wireless to little audio stations and speakers throughout the house? Like in my shower? Why can't iPhoto let me view my photos on my TV? Why can't Sherlock be available to me in any room (on some cheap device with a pen interface or something) so I can see what movies are playing at my local theater and/or to use as yellow pages? Why can't I network a set of iSights or other camera's and have be able to serve up these images across the house and/or use it is a video intercom system? Why should I buy some expensive device as a internet radio receiver that lets me select any station from any room in my house when I have a computer that can access the same sites? I could go on and on.

This stiff IS coming to all of our homes. Many people do this sort of thing with available hardware and software, but it isn't always easy to accomplish regardless of expense. Only Apple could make it "plug and play." Apple has almost ALL of the pieces, but has not put them together yet. Somebody will very soon, and if it isn't Apple it will be a shame.
 
Why can't iTunes serve up music via wireless to little audio stations and speakers throughout the house?
You can get an FM transmitter and broadcast to radios (even in the shower) via iTunes or iPod.

Why can't iPhoto let me view my photos on my TV?
Because Apple sells computers and monitors. And you could always create a slideshow, burn it onto a disc, then playback on your television set (even in the shower).

Why can't Sherlock be available to me in any room (on some cheap device with a pen interface or something) so I can see what movies are playing at my local theater and/or to use as yellow pages?
Well, you can use Sherlock on your computer and find the information, then sync it to your mobile phone and or iPod and/or pda. And many telephone networks offer wap services (for phones/pdas) such as that (and you can even book movie tickets that way).

Why can't I network a set of iSights or other camera's and have be able to serve up these images across the house and/or use it is a video intercom system?
If you have the computers, you can. And check out evocam. And there's greater interactivity between other devices. I can set up iSight in my home, stream it to a webcam, then check it via my computer at work, or even my GPRS mobile phone when I'm really away from it all.

Why should I buy some expensive device as a internet radio receiver that lets me select any station from any room in my house when I have a computer that can access the same sites?
That's your choice, not Apple's. And again, you can use a FM transmitter to broadcast streaming Internet radio stations to radios all over your house for a fraction of the price.

So these things can be done already. Maybe not in the plug-and-play Apple has made so many people dependant on, but it's there.

It's the same argument from people who are always saying: Apple need to build an iPhone, Apple needs to build an iPDA. No, Apple doesn't. If the company makes it easier and better to use other devices effortlessly, the same thing is accomplished without the heavy R&D costs as well as competing with existing companies. It's picking the battle selectively.
I'm sure this Apple push toward digital networking will lead to greater ease in some of the things you've mentioned, but Apple still need to become a bigger player. Give 'em a greater foothold into the Windows platform and you may start to see more of this come. Just my $.02.
 
Right... most of the features mentioned are available to us, in some form or another... I believe that karavite just wants to see the same fit and finish that's put into every Mac put into home automation. If Apple actually made a concentrated effort to make an integrated system for your house, it would kick ass.

But I agree. Apple is very wise about which technologies to bet on, which to develop, and which to leave alone. But remember.... Apple is always just a few years ahead of their time... not decades. They can't afford to be. ;-)
 
adambyte, you cued in to my point - Apple could put this together and it would be great. It IS happening and going to happen more and right now Apple is missing the beginning of it.

Randman - I think you misunderstood me. I said all this stuff is possible and available, but it is not plug and play. Only geeks like you or me would put together the peices to make things like this work and even then, it isn't perfect. No offense, but some of your points fall short and hardly offer something seamless/automated - I don't want to burn disks or synch anything manually. Let the hardware/software take care of that for me. It is time for the computer to evolve and do more for me all by itself.

I think Apple will never gain back share on Windows unless they provide something people want and Windows doesn't have. The business market - outside graphics, video and some web developement, is largely a goner for Apple. They will never get it back. Education is not doing so hot these days either. The one area they have strength is in the home market. You seem to think I am asking for too much, but it is already here. Why not let Apple do it and do it right.

The Escient Fireball is a $2000 box that does many things I am asking for: http://www.escient.com/fireballline.htm Here is the touch panel that goes with it: http://www.escient.com/etp1000.htm

The page says "More than a Hard Drive" - and they are right - it is a really just a specialized computer. It may be expensive, but cheaper versions and knock offs are coming soon. Cheaper similar products will be in Best Buy within two years tops.

I tried one out the other day and my reaction was this: Almost everything it does my computer can do - just not as elegantly or automatic. Why is that? Why should I spend $2000+ on this thing when my $2500 computer is so close to being this same thing? Why can't my computer have the same features + the same convenience and flexibility? 80% of it is just software and interfaces to other devices (TV, stereos...). Why can't my Mac be the center media/information "brain" of my house (e.g. the "DIGITAL HUB"!!!) like the Escient Fireball? Unlike the Esceint, my Mac has two processors and a multitasking operating system, yet it hardly utilizes the full capabilities of either one. Why not?

You say Apple can't risk investments in new hardware, but I think they can't risk standing still. Home theater, home automation is growing rapidly. Faster towers and lighter laptops are hardly innovative or market shaking events, but when Apple does something new and innovatiive they do it right it and it pays off - iPod for example. Apple could lead this and back up the talk Jobs makes about a digital hub. I didn't say it, he did! If they can't do the hardware, they could find a partner and promote standards and interfaces and/or the software to drive this kind of thing.

Off topic: Rather than post a new thread, did you see the shameless Apple music download ad rip-off by buymusic.com! I thought it was an Apple ad until the very end. God, what a world of shameless no-talent people we live in. Don't they teach people not to plagarize in school? Still, like all the other clones, they don't get the subtle details that Apple pays attention to.
 
Originally posted by Randman
You can get an FM transmitter and broadcast to radios (even in the shower) via iTunes or iPod.

laughing out loud.

I want a waterproof wireless rendezvous enabled minisystem that I can mount in the shower and change tunes as I lather up. The system would get fed the music from my mac, and again, I would be able to select the music right then. Who wants to make a "shower playlist", hit play, get naked, and by the time the water's hot you missed the first song. No. Not to mention the fuzzy hiss as your FM transmitter goes in and out, or fails to work at all.
Add AM/FM and price it under $200.
 
When I think of "home automation," I think of being able to speak to the house and give it commands, then the house sends signals to all the devices and appliances to fulfill your commands. For example: you get out of bed in the morning and say, "Make breakfast." The kitchen activates, and the refrigerator gives 2 eggs to the stove to cook, the coffee pot starts brewing, the toaster starts toasting, etc. This is, naturally, a long way off, but I think this is where home automation will go someday, rather than just being a big interconnected intercom.
 
Right arden - that is part of home automation too, and you can rig this sort of thing up with various devices (X10 and a computer with speech recognition), but it far from where it needs to be. I actually rigged something like this up with my old Quadra 660 AV in 1994 - though by no means was it slick or really usable (I was controlling MIDI devices and a light or two via my Mac and a PC -both via speech). Still, that is the point I am trying to make here - there are so many little pieces out there, and have been for some time, but nobody has put them together yet in the right way. Standards is one issue, wireless another, but it IS coming soon. I just want to see Apple incorporate this into their digital hub strategy - it seems the logical next step. Media (music, images and movies) seem to be the core of Apple's digital hub ideas, so why not extend it to merge with home audio and theater equipment. We have been hearing about the inevitable merging of our TV and computer, so why isn't it happening with Apple now?

In the mean time, I ran a audio cable under my floor from my G4 to my Rotel 1055 surround sound receiver so it can play various internet radio stations in my living room and bedroom (via the Rotels zone 2 that is controllable via remote). I may run a video cable from the Mac into the Rotel (using a Dazzle AV bridge) so I could watch some home movies directly on my TV, but running from my Mac. Still, there is NO remote for my G4 (which is in my office). I can't tell it to play MP3s, let alone another radio station or start up FCP or iMovie to watch some video, without walking over to it. I don't want to walk over to it. Is it really too much to ask. The main thing that is missing is some way to control the Mac without being in front of it. A little wireless tablet device (that can run on its own and also communicate with other Macs) would do the trick. A little software to load up internet radio stations and manage and access the other media stored on my Mac would then make my Mac the equivilent of the Escient Fireball.
 
P.S. Some people seem to think I am being a ridorkulous dreamer here, but look what MS is doing - email, the web and photos on a TV. http://www.msntv.com/Default.aspx

Come back to this post in a year or so and tell me MS and others won't expand this to all kinds of media and communication with all kinds of devices - movies, radio, music, home theater/audio and PCs. Apple could do it so much better.
 
I realize posting back to oneself can be the sign of a sick mind (or lack of social life), but I have been researching the whole home automation area and there is a lot happening. According to some mfgs I spoke with, EVERYONE is hot for this market to explode, even Apple.

If you are rich and have about $50,000 to spare, you can do almost anything in home automation http://www.crestron.com/, but for the rest of us, there is hope, but it aint all there yet.

X10 devices have been around for a long time and have the advantages of being cheap and using your houses electrical wiring system as a network - anything plugged in to a wall outlet can be controlled by an x10 device, but the types of control are limited to (basically) on/off, though this can be enhanced with motion sensors, remotes, special modules for lamps, appliances, momentary switches... and PC control (Macs too). Still, it isn't all the way there to having any and every device available for any kind of control - for example, tell my computer to load up a play list on iTunes and send the audio to a specific room in my house.

Again, X10 is pretty cool and previous attempts at new standards and protocols have not taken off, but Universal Plug and Play http://www.upnp.org/ is getting a lot of attention from big players like Microsoft and Sony - still, no products. I assume Apple is interested too, but they are not often mentioned as a big player here. Can someone please tell me, who does plug and play better than Apple? Didn't they basically invent the concept? Please spare me from a world where Microsoft leads on plug and play! Wait a minute, unless they have someone to copy or buy out, they really can't do anything "new" - I guess we are safe for now! :-)

Any way, for anyone interested here are some links on various subjects:

X10 Devices - don't be fooled by the bad web design or seemingly simple products - there is a lot of hidden power and control available with these things - even without a computer. Controls based on time of day, motion sensing, macros and grouping of devices into "scenes" - many devices can control other devices - for example, when a motion sensor can trigger a macro or scene - not just one light.
http://www.x10.com/automation/homeautomation.htm
http://www.x10.com/automation/product_modules_switches.htm
http://www.x10.com/automation/product_wireless_remotes.htm
http://www.x10.com/automation/product_motion_sensors.htm
http://www.x10.com/automation/product_plug_controllers.htm

Other X10 based product companies:
http://www.smartlinc.com/
http://www.leviton.com/

Here are other companies with X10 based products and speech control (sadly all PC):
http://www.appliedfuture.com - voice control too
http://www.automatedliving.com/default.htm
Though you don't need a computer to control X10 devices, it can be a lot of fun. Fortunately, there is a developer who remembers Apple and OS X! It is cheap - only $39.00!!! (nice guy too)
http://www.alwaysthinking.com/products/products.html
I have yet to test this out, but it seems to work with Apple's speech functions (in and out). Also, with this, you will need a serial to usb adapter - they recommend Keyspan: http://www.keyspan.com/products/homepage-Serial.spml

Here are some other companies that specialize in AV equipment and home AV networks (not X10):
http://www.nilesaudio.com/
http://www.nuvotechnologies.com/
http://www.xantech.com/

This is the area I think Apple can run with - I'm not saying a Mac can serve up cable TV and DVDs throughout the house, but the Mac already has all kinds of digital media - why not use it as a digital media server to AV equipment throughout the house? MP3s/iTunes, internate radio, pics (iPhoto) and home movies (iMovie), addresses (Address Book), email (Mail), information (Sherlock)... throughout the house?

Any way, for those who think home automation is not coming soon to a computer near you (Mac or otherwise), you are really talking about something where you have no knowledge. Same goes if you think there is no place for Apple because they are interested, but are probably hampered by economic issues. Still, the home automation trend will more than likely consist of smart devices and wireless (though you cannot serve up high quality home audio and video via wireless), but there is certainly a part to play for the computer, computer network and Apple. Again, Apple could lead the way with well thought out, easy to use and innovative ideas.

Any way, with X10 devices and a couple hundred bucks you can have your Mac control almost every light and appliance in your house. I am going to get back into X10 and set some stuff up here at home. I'm also using my Mac to send audio to my AV receiver (itunes and internet radio) and then use my AV receivers Zone out to serve up the Apple media (audio only) to other areas of my house. With AppleScript (and even QuicKeys!) I can set up some automation on the computer end for using my Mac as a digital hub - for example:

1. At 7:30 am (when I wake up), check my mail and use text-to-speech to read off a list of messages in my inbox via the audio out of the mac to my AV receiver to it's second zone in the kitchen (Mail has lousy AppleScript support for this kind of thing).

2. Load up my favorite internet radio station and play it on all audio zones in my house (Could just use a timed QuicKeys sequence to launch Windows Media player and then select a favorite...).

3. Run some timed macros to activate some of the X10 devices (make coffee, turn on the AC in the living room...)

These are just a few examples, but what is clear to me in attempting this is the lack of software to make this all easy to do for people who are less obsessed than I am. Some day I hope Apple changes that.
 
You can add http://www.hometoys.com and http://www.bangolufsen.com

But (yes, there is a but) all this technology does not solve a few problems: very bad user interface... and legal transmission (broadcasting) of music /image/video over the air...

What is needed is a system with some kind of identification, like does Bluetooth, but easier to use. Don't want your neighbor to listen to your music... and for sure you don't want him to control your house.

X10 is a nice standard for techies. Bluetooth user's interface is still rough. WiFi is not defined at sufficiently high level. Yes, there is place for Apple here !
 
I want the robot vacum cleaner... mmmm automatic home vacum cleaning! You just put it on your floor and turn it on and it putzes away! Sucks out al the dirt.

And on the frontier of home control, all you really need to control those x10 devices from your mac would be a piece of software someone writes, correct? So why not write it? I agree it would be awesome.
 
Well, karavite, if you can put something together that does what you want at a price you can afford, more power to you. Maybe if you emailed Apple with some suggestions, they might jump on it more quickly.

There's something to be said when people are so lazy they can't even get up to control their own appliances. It's one thing if you're busy with something, painting a room or working on an important project or something like that, but if you want home automation just because you don't want to get up, that's another thing altogether. Maybe you should look at the reasons you want home automation and see if pure laziness is one of them.

No offense.
 
arden, other than my own geeky nature, there may not appear to be too many reasons for wanting this, but there are many good reasons. It really isn't about laziness.

First, in my own defense, I am not a lazy person. I work at least 55 hours a week in my "day job" and have worked extra every Saturday and more for at least the past 7 years in other areas I am interested in (minus the two years I went to grad school and worked about 100 hours a week and read 800 pages of assignments per week). I try to exercise at least 3 times a week too. Sorry, but the laziness argument doesn't fly here.

My weekend work that I referred to has been in the area of assitive technology - technology for people who are disabled. Most of this work has been with people who are visually impaired and the various tools they can use to use a computer so they can work or go to school. When you work with people who need assisitve technology you soon realize it isn't always the person who is disabled, it is our technology. Often times a bad designs make people disabled more then their physical disability. Good designs can make people who are disabled more productive and enjoy their life. One thing that technology has promised but has failed to deliver on is integration and communication between devices. Though a lot of home automation is more about gee whiz and/or even laziness, making it affordable will have extra benefits for a wide range of people who are disabled, older and/or who want to save a little time and effort for other things that are more interesting or rewarding. Apple led the world in assitive technology in the 80s, and the Mac was THE computer for people who are disabled, but lost out due to Windows dominating computing. Macs would still be the best ever computer for accessibility if developers (who are forced to write for Windows) could put their efforts toward Mac solutions. Any way, the same things that benefit people who are disabled often benefit people who are not disabled. The "curb cut" is a classic example, but there are many more that most people don't even know about. OCR, word prediction in cell phones and other examples originated in assitive technology. Also, assistive technology uses almost every kind of new technology to help people who are disabled. So, if I or enough other people are too lazy to turn on a light, it will result in cheaper and easier to use solutions for someone who is physically disabled and cannot turn on a normal light switch.

Outside of disability issues (which could account for at least 1000 good uses of home automation) I can think of many reasons how an automated home can help people and not be related to laziness.

1. Energy saving - lights, AC and heat all regulated by time of day and activities by people who live in the house (you don't need a computer on all day to run this either).
2. Time saving - add up all the little things we do in our houses every day and give us an extra hour or two to read to our kids, go on a walk...
3. Increase the functional value of all our home electronics.

Regarding 3, here is where I do get a little lazy and selfish. As a result of my not being lazy in working, I have spent tons of money on technology, but I am not happy with the lack of integration between what I get for my hard earned money. In my living room is a A/V system I have spent about $6000 on, and let me tell you it sounds great (my AV receiver can be updated for new software - but only via a PC). The A/V receiver's second zone allows me to listen to it in another part of the house (for example, I can listen to the radio from the AV receiver while it plays cable TV in the living room). In my office is my G4 DP 1 GHz I spent about $2500 on (bought it when it came out), plus another few grand in monitors, and AV gear in there. There are a few things I would like to do with BOTH systems but cannot (easily).

One of the things I would like to listen to (in the living room) is the internet radio stations I always listen to when I work in my office. I can run an audio cable from the Mac to the AV system, but I can't control the Mac from the living room. Despite having spent nearly $10,000 on computer and audio equipment, short of moving my G4 into the living room (something the wife will NEVER let me do), there is almost zero integration here. PC users have a range of cheap products they can use to serve up MP3s and/or internet radio from their computer to their stereo and even control their PC remotely, but since I have a Mac (a sign of good taste I think), I cannot. I'd like to watch some of my video I edit on my mac in my living room without having to run cables and/or burn a DVD every time. Again, PC users have this sort of thing available. I do not.

So what do I do - work harder so I can buy radios, stereos and computers for every room in my house? Isn't $10k enough? How about 2k? It should be.

Any way, if this keeps up, guess what I will buy for my next computer? I hate to say it, but if Apple doesn't keep up on this, I'm reverse switching. I have spent tons my hard earned money on personal macs for years - 10 + a newton, iPod... + software and peripherals - all from Apple. Probably $30,000. I have convinced at least 200 computer purchases by friends and family to go to Macs. Am I the kind of customer they want to lose?

Just this past day I ordered about $300 worth of X10 stuff and cables that will let me do a lot (though far from all) of what I mentioned in the previous message. Still, it is far from elegant and what is missing is software, communication protocols and neat hardware features. Apple could to this! All the pieces are there, we just need someone to put them together.

Sure home automation may seem frivolous, but so are luxury cars, clothes, perfume, gold clubs and even our dumb home computers. Like other seemingly frivolous things, home automation can and will generate jobs. The market in home automation right now is about 2 billion a year. This is expected to jump to 10 billion in few years. Apple can get in on it or not, but it is coming either way. It is the closest thing to a sure bet in technology these days. Could Apple use a bit of that 10 billion dollars?

The whole purpose of this thread, and others I have written on is to simply talk about how Apple could be THE leader in a business that is growing rapidly and is right up their ally. Am I voice in the wilderness? I didn't say "digital hub," Steve Jobs did! So where is it today? iPod was the last big step and it paid off - everyone copied it, but as usual, they copied it poorly, but what has Apple done since to really add to the digital hub? Little video cameras and MP3s and all the great (for the most part) iApps are part of it, but they need to lay a home network infrastructure. Take the Mac out of the home office WITHOUT taking it out of the home office! That is where computing is going. Apple would and could do home automation so much better than ANYBODY, but they may miss the boat. An Apple home automation system, that worked as well and was as innovative as all Apple products usually do, would be a big selling point to sell more Apple computers in homes (THE only place they can sell computers!).

Oh, Mr. K., I'm not a programmer, but someone did write the software - http://www.alwaysthinking.com/products/products.html and I bought it! I ALWAYS support the little Mac developers and this guy did a nice job, but is limited to some issues with hardware due to the PC-ness of the world. Why can't Apple help him and other like him? For example, speech control is an option, but PC users have far more powerful, cheap and reliable options here.
 
I have seen the inside of Karavite's mind, and it is full of wires...

Wow, I never expected such a response! I guess the semi-accusation about laziness came more from my own current lifestyle than anything you might be doing. I'm not working right now, and since it's summer, I'm not in school either, so I really have very little to do. I wouldn't mind being able to control everything from the computer, or whatever, but that stems into severe lethargy and I should get up and do more than push buttons when I want something done.

However, I can certainly see Apple foraging the way into making our homes like the quarters on the Enterprise. They are definitely the perfect company to introduce cheap and easy home automation, especially for the harder jobs that people would rather not touch. I hope you have success in reaching them, Karavite.
 
Dave17lax - neat post! It raises another point I forgot to mention - Apple has AppleScript! Yet another peice of the home automation puzzle ripe for use!!! Another is one of my favorite programs (until they ruined it on OS X) - QuickKeys. Do you know the poor people at CE took years to write QK for Windows. I wonder why?

arden - you are right, my mind is a mess of wires right now. I am obsessed and underneath it all is the deep desire to be the Captian Picard of my home:

When I am thirsty: "Grape Juice, Fresh Squeezed, Cold."
When the neighbors dog is pooping on our yard - "Raise sprinkler shield."
When a visitor pulls up - "Driveway On Screen, magnification level 2"
When I want to watch TV - "Open (Discovery) Channel"
When it is hot out - "Divert all power to AC"
When our own dog won't leave the kitchen when I am cooking - "Fire ice maker, full spread"...
And of course, when my mother in law comes over - "RED ALERT" followed by an automatic rotating shelf that flips around to display all the awful picture frames and other nick nacks she gives us constantly...

I hope I didn't come off as some kind of arogant jerk about my work, school... and all that self indulgent B.S. - it is so hard to read a person's intent on thses things and I got a tad huffy on the lazy thing, but it didn't seem like you were being nasty at all. I just want to see Apple lead more revolutions and shake things up - and be successful. Nobody else can or has for some time!

Any way, enjoy your summer! If I can pass on advice I should have listened to and should listen to - it is this. Some time ago, before OS X, I bought Suse Linux for the Mac and was on the phone with tech support to figure out one little thing that kept my install from working. When we figured it out, I said something like, "Man this is so cool, I can't wait to do this and that..." Then the tech support guy, the biggest Linux geek you could ever imagine said something like, "Hey man, get OUTSIDE. Enjoy the sun, get away from the computer..." In my case, he was right! Why don't I listen to this more?...
 
Replying to myself again!

I just had to post this - these guys make some really cool software and a Mac USB interface to X10 (no more serial adapters). The software is much more powerful than others I have seen (for Mac), has a pretty decent UI and can even respond to emails.

http://www.perceptiveautomation.com/indigo/index.html

You can download a trail version (have to get a trail code by email) and even without any X10 devices you can get a good idea of what it can do.
 
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