ATI Radeon 5770, Mac Pro 1,1, pre-boot initialization failure

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kapok

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Hi, I’ve been experiencing some fan spin-up issues on my Mac Pro 1,1 (late 2006 1st gen. Intel model). After posting at discussions.apple.com, I was encouraged to run Apple Hardware Test to test for any hardware faults. Unfortunately, ever since I replaced my old graphics card with a new one (The nVidia GeForce GT 8800 for Mac, which had worked great for years, "burnt out", and Apple Corp. recommended the ATI Radeon HD 5770 as the best/only replacement option available for the Mac Pro 1,1), I've been having graphics card issues which prevent me from running (or more accurately, viewing) pre-boot processes, such as Apple Hardware Test.

The Mac Pro is fully updated, running OS X Snow Leopard, 10.6.7. It has 6 GB of RAM -- plenty for my purposes -- and I run system maintenance routines weekly to correct permissions, etc. In preparation to diagnose my fan issue, I went ahead and "flashed" the PRAM, and reset the System Management Controller (SMC) for good measure.

I first noticed a change in the boot process after installing the 5770 graphics card. As everyone knows, after pressing the Mac's power button, a chime is heard. After a moment or two of darkness, the grey screen & Apple logo appear, followed eventually by Finder. Ever since I installed the 5770 however, the screen remains blank until JUST before OS X has fully loaded (sometime AFTER the grey Apple logo would ordinarily appear on-screen, but before Finder opens up).

At first, I didn't think much about it. Everything else seems to work just fine...until I tried booting (while pressing the "d" key) from my system disc, to run Apple Hardware Test. As best as I can tell, everything loads up normally, except that I can't see it. After hitting power, and pressing "d", the optical drive spins up, and I can hear that the system disk is being read, and then everything quiets down, and there I am sitting in front of a blank screen. I'm fairly sure the computer is not frozen because it responds to key combinations like "control-command-option-eject", the keyboard shortcut for "fast shutdown".

I have experimented with various other start-up key combinations (like "c", or "command-option-p-r" to flash the PRAM, etc.), and have confirmed (just by listening to the sounds that the Mac Pro makes while it's booting, for lack of any visual confirmation) that those "low-level" boot processes are in fact working properly.

My suspicion is that the new 5770 graphics card isn't being initialized early enough in the boot process, maybe as a result of the boot ROM upgrade that took place when I installed it. System Profiler identifies my current boot ROM version to be "MP11.005C.B08". A quick Google search confirms that this version is associated with Mac Pros which have been upgraded with the ATI Radeon HD 5770 graphics card.

So now I'm now stuck without the ability to run ANY kind of pre-boot diagnostics, etc. at ALL anymore. Additionally, I can't enable/disable my firmware password, because I can't see the EFI password prompt when I boot holding down the "Option" key (After the brief "Option"-boot period, it was clear that my system was doing one of two things; 1. Stalling/Crashing somehow 2. Booting to the EFI password entry prompt as it was supposed to, but failing to route that low-level process to the video card -- all I could see is the blank screen).

So, dear reader, thank you for having the patience to read about my problem. Not being a qualified technician, I understand that many of my assumptions may be speculative, but I believe that I've been thorough so far.

Fortunately, this problem is not debilitating for me right now, but I can foresee having troubles in the future (like when it comes time to upgrade the OS to Lion). If the ATI/Apple engineers haven't written a firmware/boot ROM fix (assuming that is what's needed) by then, Perhaps it will finally be time to buy a new computer :/

Please do not hesitate to re-post this on any other forum where you believe it might be relevant. Thanks in advance for any help you can offer!

-kapok
Mac Pro 1,1, 6 GB RAM, OS X 10.6.7, ATI Radeon HD 5770 GPU
 
Yes, thank you for your help DeltaMac. I followed your instructions carefully, and my firmware password has been reset. I believe my graphics card problem is unrelated to EFI, however.
 
Ooh, Mac-Forums.com had some good feedback. This was my closing reply to their collective genius...

"Heh, perhaps I will. It's funny, my broken 8800 still has an itty bitty little bit of life left in it -- I can boot in "safe mode"... sometimes. A risky choice, but maybe I'll just stick it in the closet, and cross my fingers. The realist in me says, let the e-bay proceedings begin...

Frankly, the darned thing (aka the 2006 "junker") still works great, for just about everything I throw at it, and the 5770 is a huge performance upgrade, and ENTIRELY flawless separate from the present failure. I'm just a little bit weepy about having to give this thing up when Lion finally rears its ugly head, is all.

Thanks Nick, you're a real pal to confirm all that junk.

-jabroni5" (aka kapok*)

http://www.mac-forums.com/forums/ap...-boot-initialization-failure.html#post1247642
 
You can boot to the Apple hardware test without needing video. Just insert the disk that has that test, and start while holding the letter D.
Do you get video at some point during that boot?
If not, then the firmware in your card must just not be compatible with your MacPro.
If you purchased that card through Apple, then you should tell them the card doesn't work properly, and you need that replaced.
If you didn't purchase from Apple, then whatever retailer should be able to help you, if they sold it to you as an Apple compatible card.
 
DeltaMac said:
You can boot to the Apple hardware test without needing video.

Do you get video at some point during that boot?

If not, then the firmware in your card must just not be compatible with your MacPro.

If you purchased that card through Apple, then you should tell them the card doesn't work properly, and you need that replaced.
Click to expand...

I missed the "multi-quote" memo, so I'll address your points in order...

1. That's good to know!

2. Unfortunately when I "d" boot, with my original system software "Mac OS X Install Disc 1" in the drive, the screen stays dark the whole time. Eventually the CD/DVD drive spins down, and it appears to have finished booting, but I can't see anything at all to confirm it.

3. It IS true that Apple only documents the 5770 to be supported for 2010 and later Mac Pros, but they still recommend them (w/ out warranty, support, etc. as the sales rep. with whom I carefully discussed my purchase told me) for older Pro users like myself.

4. I COULD call up Apple and tell them to replace my card, but I'm quite leery that they'll tell me exactly the same thing as when I bought it. That it's not officially supported for use in my computer. My guess is that getting another card isn't going to fix the problem. It seems like a lot of fuss (plus, my computer would be down while my only graphics card is "in the shop") only to discover that it's not a broken card, just a symptom of incompatibility.

I believe what I'm going to do is find a cheaper, FULLY compatible graphics card on e-bay (perhaps the GeForce 7300, which was the stock card for this Mac Pro when I bought it) and use it for diagnostic purposes. It's a nuisance to be swapping graphics cards all the time, but if it's only for occasional system maintenance/diagnostics, then I guess I can deal with that.

I find it hard to believe that Apple is going to upgrade the 5770's firmware to accommodate pre-2010 Pro users, if they haven't already. I can only assume that there's some kind of technical limitation for backwards compatibility that simply can't be worked around for older machines.

Thanks again for all your help, DeltaMac!
 
One method to discover if you have a hardware problem is to try replacing that hardware.

If you bought that card from Apple (did you?), then it should have similar warranty to anything that your purchase from Apple - usually a 12-month warranty for new parts, or 90 days for a service replacement part (if your card was replaced at an Apple service shop) - or whatever is left of the manufacturer's warranty.
Tell whoever that your vid card is not working properly, and ask for a replacement.
As the part is not too challenging to replace, they may ship you a replacement, and you return the old card. You likely wouldn't have the MacPro down for longer than it takes to replace the vid card.
You haven't said if you have tried simply reseating the vid card that you are using now? That's something that I would always try in a service shop.
 
DeltaMac, I am encouraged by your reply, but I'm genuinely unconvinced that there's anything wrong with this ATI Radeon HD 5770 graphics card. Excepting all these pre-boot initialization issues, the darned thing is a winner. Every application (games in particular, but graphics rendering on the whole) that I've run performs at or above where the nVidia GeForce 8800 GT did, and while the computer IS booted, the card's performance seems flawless.

I DID indeed buy the card from Apple, directly. I have been asked that question already on the identical Mac-Forums thread, and I appreciate your concern. I could return it, but I've been through exactly 5 graphics cards since I purchased this system in 2006, and I'm flatly sick of the shuffle. Happy that the 5770 is so good, even WITH the firmware flaws.

To honor your suggestion, I have re-seated the 5770 in slot 1. The problem is not resolved.

Preparing to bid on 7300/8800 nVidia cards on eBay as I write this.
 
kapok said:
... I'm genuinely unconvinced that there's anything wrong with this ATI Radeon HD 5770 graphics card. Excepting all these pre-boot initialization issues, the darned thing is a winner.
...
Click to expand...

I think you are misguided on this - If Apple sold you this card, they should also be able to tell you that what you have (improper video start at Mac boot) is expected, or normal behavior. I think not.
The way to tell if this is normal is to try a different 5770, instead of possibly wasting your time trying a different card (again) If you like that card, at least make sure that yours is good - I don't agree that you have made that determination yet (you still have that little booting problem, eh? :D )

And in another direction - have you tried reinstalling the current combined OS X updater? That's a trick that has been a possible fix for myriad minor and major issues that show up in OS X systems, and has helped virtually since OS X has appeared on the scene. I would always try that install when presented with a possible system driver issue. Here's a link to the correct download, if you don't keep one around: http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1361
 
Hi DeltaMac, as usual, thanks for your continued help with my issue. Just to re-cap, since it's been a few days; Last time I posted, I was still struggling to get my Radeon 5770 graphics card to display anything during the boot process.

Well, problem solved. As is probably common with home users who refuse to seek hands-on guidance, the solution turned out to be obvious, and I feel really dumb. What has been happening is that I have my 20" Apple Cinema display plugged into the DVI port, and my flat-screen TV plugged into the mini-display port. Even when the TV is off, the 5770 defaults all pre-boot processes to the mini-display port. So all I had to do to fix this problem was either unplug my TV from the mini-display port, or turn it on, and perform the diagnostics on the TV instead. G whiz.

Furthermore, the problem is well documented, if I'd only known what I was looking for.

Apple Hardware Test has reported no failures, and my fan issue seems to have been resolved for the moment, though I still get periodic sleep/wake issues which are probably just related to too many devices plugged into the USB hub, hard for me to say.

Thanks again, you're a credit to the forum.
-kapok
 
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