Can't install Tiger on G4 PCI Yikes

M

mjit

Registered
Hi! I'm new to the forum, but not new to Macs. I'm having a problem, and I think I could be over looking something simple.

I have a Desktop G4 PCI graphics, the "Yikes" model. I have run everything from OS 8.6 through OS 10.2.8 on this machine, separately and on partitions. A few months ago I went back to just 9.2.2 so that my son can use his preschool game CDs and not accidentally boot into OS X. Now I want to install 10.4.

I tried to just start up with the Tiger DVD in the drive, and I get the Mac chime, but the screen stays black. Remove the DVD, it starts up fine in OS 9. Tried putting the DVD in while booted in OS 9, and starting the DVD, it puts up the OS X install screen with the Restart button, but after hitting Restart it does the same thing as starting up cold, normal chime, then a black screen.

I've unplugged ethernet, SCSI cable (it has an Apple installed SCSI card), everything but keyboard, mouse and moniter. Reset PRAM. Reintitialised the hard drive, created 2 partitions and installed OS 9 and updated to 9.2.2, thinking maybe I could start up from that partition and install Tiger to the second partition ( I have no idea if there would be a problem with the different Extended and Journaled HFS+ formats that are listed, but I thought I've give it a try) but no dice. The DVD installer only seems to work by restarting, and that only gets me back to a black screen.

The DVD player is a DVD-ROM from a Sawtooth G4 (AGP Graphics) and boots fine with the OS 9 disk, and has no problems loading DVDs or CDs, including the Tiger DVD. The Tiger DVD is the full retail boxed version, not a system specific disk. The hard drive is 40 gigs, with nothing on it except the system. When I partitioned it, I installed OS 9 on a 10 gig side, and left nearly 30gigs for Tiger. The machine has 512Mb RAM. The PCI Graphics model requires no firmware update.

Just for the heck of it, I ran back just now and popped in the 10.2 DVD that came with my TiBook. It was slow, but it booted from that disk after about a minute. I can install, use the utilities, everything with no problem. I could go back to 10.2.8 (I skipped Panther), but I'd rather try Tiger.

Am I overlooking something?

Thanks,

mj
 
Oh yeah, I am holding down the C key while restarting, didn't want to leave that little fact out. And I have also tried using the Startup Disk control panel to boot from the Tiger disk.

I've also used the disk utilities to check the drive, it checks out fine. And rebuilt the desktop, although I can't see that being of any use in this situation. Didn't repair permissions as it's running OS 9.
 
One thing you could try is starting up holding down the option key, enabling the Startup Manager. If the Startup Manager sees the Tiger boot disk, you have a good chance of booting into the installer.

Another option is to boot the PowerMac into Target Disk Mode (boot holding down the T key) and then mounting the PowerMac's internal drive as a firewire drive on your TiBook. You could then boot to the Tiger disk on the TiBook and install the system to the firewire (PowerMac internal) drive.

That brings up a good question, though... does that Tiger disk boot well on the TiBook? If not, you may just have ended up with a bad disk - not common, but not unheard of.
 
Can you try removing the SCSI card altogether?

Also, have you added any 3rd-party RAM to the machine? Try to return the machine to an "as-stock-as-possible" configuration and see if that helps.
 
Ishcabittle said:
One thing you could try is starting up holding down the option key, enabling the Startup Manager. If the Startup Manager sees the Tiger boot disk, you have a good chance of booting into the installer.

Another option is to boot the PowerMac into Target Disk Mode (boot holding down the T key) and then mounting the PowerMac's internal drive as a firewire drive on your TiBook. You could then boot to the Tiger disk on the TiBook and install the system to the firewire (PowerMac internal) drive.
Click to expand...
The G4 PCI Yikes! model does not support either of those operations.
 
I agree with ElDiablo, but technically the Apple installed SCSI card shouldn't hinder the Tiger install... Still, it's worth a shot.
 
ElDiabloConCaca said:
The G4 PCI Yikes! model does not support either of those operations.
Click to expand...

Ouch. Sorry 'bout that. What was the first PowerMac to support those, the AGP? Scratch those ideas then.
 
I forgot to add that, I did try holding the Option key, just got the black screen.

I knew Target Disk wasn't supposed to work on this one, but I was thinking about giving it a try anyway.

I think it's all stock RAM at this point. I took the extra RAM out and put it it in the Sawtooth. The SCSI card is that Apple factory installed Adaptec card that would stop working for most people with almost every update since OS 8.6, but I've gotten it to work with every single OS I've used. I guess it could be SCSI voodoo still in play, though. I'll try popping that out, and I'll go see if the TiBook boots with the Tiger DVD.
 
Yeah -- if it's the Adaptec 2906 version, it has been known to cause problems with more recent operating systems.

I would say pull everything except for the stock RAM, one hard drive and the stock video card and see if that works. If it does, then you can, by process of elimination, find the culprit piece of hardware (assuming it is hardware that's causing it to fail).

Also -- is this a retail version of Tiger, or is it a grey-colored, system-specific Tiger DVD?

[ Yep, the AGP-based G4 towers were the first to support Target Disk Mode and the option key System Selector at startup... there may have been an iMac or two in between the PCI and AGP G4 towers, though, that supported these operations. ]
 
Took the SCSI card out (it's an Adaptec 2930CU Mac). Booted up, put the DVD in , and used the "Restart to install" button. Still came up black screen. I restarted from the front of the machine and held down the C key, still no go. I can't get away from the black screen unless I take the DVD out.

I did find non-Apple RAM, took that out, but then I couldn't even get to the "Restart to install" screen, since that left me with just 64MB! So I put a 256 stick back in, same thing happens.

The only drive is a 40gig that replaced the original 30gig that failed years ago. There are no other mods, just the extra RAM.

The disk boots the TiBook no problem, and funny thing, it boots the heavily modded Sawtooth right up. That thing has three large drives, an ATA controller card, a 2.0 USB 5 port card, Digi 001, and a 1.3GHz OWC processor upgrade (which isn't even supported), and a recently added dual layer DVD drive.
 
I just stole an original Apple stick of RAM out of the Sawtooth, and removed the 3rd party from the Yikes. Same deal. It starts up, I put in the Tiger disk and hit the "Restart to install" get the chime when it restarts, I can see it access the DVD drive, but nothing. I even checked again to be sure it was the DVD-ROM drive I had in there, and not the CD burner I had in before. It is the DVD drive. The drive is working fine with other DVDs (Jaguar) and CDs.

This is the black retail version of 10.4, not a grey system specific version.
 
have you made sure that the firmware is up to date, on the mac and dvd drive? and is it infact a stock apple dvd drive?
 
The Yikes model (PCI) doesn't need a firmware update. The DVD-ROM is a stock Apple drive that was originally in the Sawtooth (AGP). Just to check to see if the drive would boot a DVD, I put in my Jaguar DVD (grey system specific 10.2) for my TiBook, and it booted from that DVD right away.

My TiBook will boot from the Tiger DVD, and so will the Sawtooth, so I don't think the DVD itself is defective. The Yikes will boot from the Jaguar DVD and play any other DVD or CD, so I don't think the drive is defective. The Yikes doesn't require (or even have) a firmware update, so that can't be it. I'll go check and see if a stock Apple DVD-ROM has any kind of update.

The Sawtooth DID require a firmware update, and when I updated it, this DVD drive was in it. It booted from the DVD and installed Tiger with no problems. I then took the drive out of the Sawtooth to install a dual layer burner, and put this DVD-ROM in the Yikes. It's worked flawlessly (including as a boot drive) until I decided I might as well get some more use out of my family pack and install Tiger on the Yikes. This is the only DVD it won't boot from. It will PLAY the DVD if you put it in when the computer is booted from the hard drive (which is OS 9.2.2 at the moment) and gives me the install screen with the Restart button, but if you hit the button, it restarts, gives the chime, then nothing. And you can't get it to start up past the chime unless you hit the Restart button on the front of the computer itself, and grab the DVD out of the drive before the computer looks for it. I know I've probably posted all this info earlier, I'm just going through it again...

I can usually work these things out myself, so when I can't, it's usually something really weird. Or something amazingly simple that I've stupidly overlooked. Either way, thanks all for trying to help me!
 
Well, the problem is resolved, but I don't know why.

I also posted my problem over on the Apple site, and got some answers, but nothing worked. I finally just decided to install Jaguar on a partition (OS 9.2.2 is on the other side) and see what happened. I've had 10.2 on there before, so I know it works. As soon as Jaguar was installed, I pop in the Tiger DVD, hit restart and it boots right up from the DVD!

So now Tiger is installed, and I can still boot into 9.2.2 for my son's older game CDs. I don't know why it worked, but... can anybody tell me?
 
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