googolplex
jeff.hume.ca
scrolling is at the moment being done with XUL not cocoa. It will use cocoa soon i think..
Chimera browser is available for d/l!
- Thread starter ThE OutsiDer
- Start date
phatsharpie
Futuristic Robotic Cat
Wow!!! It's even faster than v0.1 from yesterday! This browser ROCKS! I can't wait for it to be usable (in terms of scrolling and form elements).
Does anyone know if Mozilla/Netscape plugins (i.e. Flash and Java) would work with this wonderful browser?
GREAT JOB GUYS!!!
-B
Does anyone know if Mozilla/Netscape plugins (i.e. Flash and Java) would work with this wonderful browser?
GREAT JOB GUYS!!!
-B
Matrix Agent
Masochist Mascot
Die Netscape buttons! DIE!
googolplex
jeff.hume.ca
are you refering to the form control buttons in the page? because if you are they will indeed die.
One thing that I found out from one of the developers is that they are planning on making gecko talk to quartz. Gecko would figure out where everything goes and then tell quartz to draw it. This would mean that pages would look like they do in Omniweb only they would render properlly and faster
!
phatsharpie, I dont know about the plugins. Post a message asking about it on the chimera newsgroup on news.mozdev.org, or email one of the developers (I think they have their addresses on the site somewhere.), or try and find one of them on #mozilla on irc.mozilla.org (their names are 'hyatt' and 'NSObject').
One thing that I found out from one of the developers is that they are planning on making gecko talk to quartz. Gecko would figure out where everything goes and then tell quartz to draw it. This would mean that pages would look like they do in Omniweb only they would render properlly and faster
!phatsharpie, I dont know about the plugins. Post a message asking about it on the chimera newsgroup on news.mozdev.org, or email one of the developers (I think they have their addresses on the site somewhere.), or try and find one of them on #mozilla on irc.mozilla.org (their names are 'hyatt' and 'NSObject'
).
I personally think that OmniWeb's path will be better. (To take from Mozilla only what's needed and implement it in a finished Cocoa application rather than building a Cocoa app around a finished Mozilla.)
The speed of Chimera is exceptionally cool, but I guess it'll be diminished once it has to do also the hovers and everything that just isn't in it yet.
The speed of Chimera is exceptionally cool, but I guess it'll be diminished once it has to do also the hovers and everything that just isn't in it yet.
googolplex
jeff.hume.ca
Omniweb is going to need to take a whole lot more from mozilla to have whats needed. All they have taken from mozilla so far is the javascript engine BTW.
The speed isn't going to be diminished. I dont know what your talking about that isn't there yet. Most everything that is in gecko in regular Mozilla is there. If the speed were to diminish it would only be at the speed of regular mozilla which is already way faster then everything else.
What is wrong with building cocoa around the engine. Its a much better approach in my opinion. Chimera doesn't have to worry about the rendering engine because it will always be up to date and fast for mozilla. All that chimera has to worry about is making a great cocoa app and tying gecko into it.
I'm not saying that Omniweb is a bad browser, it makes pages look great and its got an amazing interface, but I think that using gecko is a great idea and will make this browser really amazing.
The speed isn't going to be diminished. I dont know what your talking about that isn't there yet. Most everything that is in gecko in regular Mozilla is there. If the speed were to diminish it would only be at the speed of regular mozilla which is already way faster then everything else.
What is wrong with building cocoa around the engine. Its a much better approach in my opinion. Chimera doesn't have to worry about the rendering engine because it will always be up to date and fast for mozilla. All that chimera has to worry about is making a great cocoa app and tying gecko into it.
I'm not saying that Omniweb is a bad browser, it makes pages look great and its got an amazing interface, but I think that using gecko is a great idea and will make this browser really amazing.
googolplex
jeff.hume.ca
It still needs more work. It couldn't be included now. But yes this thing is amazing and it should be the default on os x when it is done!
Yes, but they already announced they are planning to implement more for the 5.0 development tree on the mailing list.
Hover over a link that does change its colour via CSS in IE or mozilla. This is only an example, there are quite a lot of features that aren't there yet. There are even more features that are in OW which aren't in mozilla at all. Features Cocoa provides, so Chimera *could* implement them. Like Quartz displaying the pages. Or live text checking. Other things spring to mind like *very* cool shortcuts (user programmable).
Well, that's what OW plans, too, only the other way round. If the GUI comes second, then you can always use mozilla, but OmniGroup has developped the app over years now and you can see their experience in almost every Cocoa detail. It'll take the chimera project quite some time to achieve the lot, I believe, while OmniGroup will either finish their work in the browsing engine or adopt gecko.
It's just an opinion I state here. I *like* the idea of chimera. Like it more than mozilla's interface for sure. I'm just thinking aloud here.
googolplex
jeff.hume.ca
omniweb isn't going to adopt gecko fully because then they would have to get gecko to talk with quartz to keep their nice looking pages. Chimera is working on this now.
Your right hover isn't there yet, but when it does get ther it wont slow things down much at all.
having the rendering engine basically done gives chimera a huge head start. Now they just have to make a great interface. Whereas OW has a great interface but now they have to do the dirty work and make a great engine.
Long Live Choice!
Your right hover isn't there yet, but when it does get ther it wont slow things down much at all.
having the rendering engine basically done gives chimera a huge head start. Now they just have to make a great interface. Whereas OW has a great interface but now they have to do the dirty work and make a great engine.
Long Live Choice!
that's exactly where i think you're wrong. about which part is the hard one. apple itself once said that when everything works as planned in a software development and you'd say 'we're 80% done', really there are 80% to come, and that's refinement in the interface. that's where apple is strong, so they must know. and that's why omniweb has so much appeal although it's cleary inferior in showing websites (missing features) which is its primary task.
googolplex
jeff.hume.ca
Sure, the interface is very difficult. And it needs a lot of attention and time to make a good one. I love omniweb's interface, but being someone who uses CSS and a few other things that Omniweb doesn't do correctly I dont use it.
I dont want this thread to turn into a browser arguement, because I love omniweb as well. Also I think we should just look at chimera and be glad that there is going to be another great browser on os x!
I dont want this thread to turn into a browser arguement, because I love omniweb as well. Also I think we should just look at chimera and be glad that there is going to be another great browser on os x!
bighairydog
tail-wagging member
Fuck me that's fast...
One thing though. Go to the same page in IE and Chimera. Chimera renders faster, but check out how slow vertical scrolling by moving the scroll bar is.
Looks promising though.
Bernie)
One thing though. Go to the same page in IE and Chimera. Chimera renders faster, but check out how slow vertical scrolling by moving the scroll bar is.
Looks promising though.
Bernie
)I downloaded Chimera too, and it's speed is AMAZING! God, I never thought my DSL could be that fast!! Unfortunately, it's not really usable yet, as it has no JavaScript support and you can't type in text fields (not to mention the horrible scrolling), but I see amazing potential for this browser! It's only been out for two weeks, and already it's much faster than OW and IE! Still don't like how it looks quite as much as OW, but I do love the tabs feature.
Also, the "Back" button is not quite as instant as OW and IE, but it is faster than OW was for a LONG time (until about October 2001). I see a very cool replacement for OmniWeb in about 4-5 months!
Adam.
Also, the "Back" button is not quite as instant as OW and IE, but it is faster than OW was for a LONG time (until about October 2001). I see a very cool replacement for OmniWeb in about 4-5 months!
Adam.
bighairydog
tail-wagging member
I've noticed people talking about what OW has taken from mozilla:
I always thought that opensource meant hello power, goodbye friendly user experience (case in point - UNIX).
Can someone fill me in on the situation?
Bernie)
Is OW open source? I assume it must be to be able to incorperate bits of mozilla. If it is opensource, then it sure is the only nice looking bit of open source I've ever seen!
I always thought that opensource meant hello power, goodbye friendly user experience (case in point - UNIX).
Can someone fill me in on the situation?
Bernie
)
googolplex
jeff.hume.ca
omniweb isn't open source. Commercial software can use mozilla code however.
scrolling is a bug. It will get much better.
it will also get more stable as well.
in the future they plan on implementing quartz rendering the pages, which means it will be beautiful like OW.
Sorry this is so short... i could answer those questions more fully but i have to go get my haircut now
scrolling is a bug. It will get much better.
it will also get more stable as well.
in the future they plan on implementing quartz rendering the pages, which means it will be beautiful like OW.
Sorry this is so short... i could answer those questions more fully but i have to go get my haircut now
serpicolugnut
OS X Supreme Being
Chimera has the most promise of ALL the current browsers... And here's why...
Currently, the best two HTML rendering engines are IE's and the Netscape/Mozilla (Gecko) rendering engine.
Right now, the Mozilla rendering engine (0.9.8 and higher) is running faster than anything else available under OS X. The Mozilla builds are very good (it's my everyday browser), but suffer from slow UI elements.
So a Cocoa front end to the Mozilla rendering engine should produce one hell of a browser. OmniWeb has exactly the reverse problem. Their front end is wonderful, but the rendering engine is substandard. They've made amazing strides between 4.0 and 4.1, but it's still lacking in full CSS support, and it also features non-standard plugins.
I'd use this analogy:
I would rather have a house with a solid foundation that needs some cosmetic work, as opposed to a house that looks nice, but sits on top of a cracked foundation.
The big question is how long will it take Chimera to become useable. Right now, all we've got is a technology demonstration. The developers here are at the very beginning of the project, and you've got to wonder how long they think it will take before the project sees a viable project.
OmniWeb is developed by a team of three, and the estimates I've heard have them getting full CSS supported no earllier than OW 5.0, sometime next year.
Currently, the best two HTML rendering engines are IE's and the Netscape/Mozilla (Gecko) rendering engine.
Right now, the Mozilla rendering engine (0.9.8 and higher) is running faster than anything else available under OS X. The Mozilla builds are very good (it's my everyday browser), but suffer from slow UI elements.
So a Cocoa front end to the Mozilla rendering engine should produce one hell of a browser. OmniWeb has exactly the reverse problem. Their front end is wonderful, but the rendering engine is substandard. They've made amazing strides between 4.0 and 4.1, but it's still lacking in full CSS support, and it also features non-standard plugins.
I'd use this analogy:
I would rather have a house with a solid foundation that needs some cosmetic work, as opposed to a house that looks nice, but sits on top of a cracked foundation.
The big question is how long will it take Chimera to become useable. Right now, all we've got is a technology demonstration. The developers here are at the very beginning of the project, and you've got to wonder how long they think it will take before the project sees a viable project.
OmniWeb is developed by a team of three, and the estimates I've heard have them getting full CSS supported no earllier than OW 5.0, sometime next year.