Chimera > iWeb

Should Chimera turn into 'iWeb' or anything like that?

  • Yes, make it so!

  • I don't know. Apple doesn't really _need_ its own browser

  • No way! Take the worst option to base Apple's own browser on? Argh!

Results are only viewable after voting.
Originally posted by sheepguy42
The reason M$ is an Evil Empire is because not only does it have most users, but it does not play well with other companies. Apple does, and even if they had most users, I believe they still would.
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Please stay on track a bit more. This is about WHAT would have to be changed for Chimera to become iWeb, iNav, iBrowse or whatever. I guess the clues are there that we'll see something like that over the next few months. Please don't shift this discussion into the 'good opensource', 'bad microsoft' and 'maybe bad, too, apple' direction.

I still see some trouble for Chimera becoming a first class Mac OS X application. The sluggishness of its interface for example. Although iPhoto isn't that good an example, either...
 
I feel that Apple would be using bad form if it took a web browser and made it an iApp. I mean, when I think of what makes something an iApp, it is that edge that every other similar product lacks. iTunes and iMovie are classic examples of applications that are completely revolutionary, and I think that iSync will follow suit. To take a relatively non-groundbreaking web browser and call it an iApp would be pretty stupid in my opinion. The real question is what kind of interface changes would they have to make in order to make this product amazing? If the application is slow, perhaps Apple will take the page rendering portion of Navigator and build a completely new interface around it. Perhaps we've all grown so used to the Mosaic style interface that it's hard to imagine something different, but if Apple's good at anything, it's thinking outside the box. If Apple releases this browser as an iApp, it will be stunning and revolutionary. Repackaging an average browser (functionality-wise) with the Aqua (or quicktime) GUI and calling it an iApp would be a bad move.
 
I don't see it on my machines. On my machines, Navigator is faster in just about every aspect than both OmniWeb, IE and especially Mozilla/Netscape. It renders faster, it scrolls pages faster, it launches faster, and I don't have any problem with typing speed in text fields.

It's obviously unfinished, but I am amazed at how functional, stable and fast this unfinished browser is compared to IE and OW, both of which have been around for years and are technically "finished" products...
 
iMovie - free
iTunes - free
iPhoto - free
Operating System - 129$
.mac annual fee - 99$

Put 'iWeb' or whatever it'd be called where it belongs.
 
Wasn't Apple working on a browser back in the OpenDoc days? Didn't they kill the project because it was easier to go with MS's offerings?

I forgot the name of the browser... Cyberdog i think.

Anyway. I am not sure if Apple should choose this battle. Granted I think they would make an excellent browser, im wondring if this is something left for the latter days of their world domination kick they've gotten into... just my opinion.

I'd like to see them focus on other iApps like maybe iDesign Studio... basically a buyout of Quark.
 
CyberDog (the OpenDoc browser container app) was killed because OpenDoc itself wasn't adopted very well among developers (yes, there WERE some...). Plus it wasn't exactly the most compatible browser experience.
 
I remember using CyberDog! I loved that thing!

Sure, CyberDog was not the most compatible browser out there, but it had it's own benefits. Because it was very Mac and OpenDoc oriented, every single thing in CyberDog was drag and dropable. Not only that, but it just seemed damn friendly. For those of you who never tried it, I believe you can still install OpenDoc and CyberDog in OS 9 and try it out. I think many of you will find that it has that same semi-revolutionary edge that today's iApps have.... in fact, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Apple made a new browser soon, but decided to market it as the new CyberDog. Can you imagine? Our cute pup would be back!

Heck, let's take it one step further: CyberDogCow: Moof!
 
At this point, I see little point in Apple not picking this fight. IE for Macintosh is turning into Netscape 4: It hasn't had any real development work done on it since Mac OS 9 came out. I think it is embarrasing that Apple bundles IE at this point: it's an old, carbon app that does a pathetic job trying to follow the Aqua Human Interface Guidelines and take advantage of the features of OS X (because they changed virtually nothing between the OS9 and X releases), and it's slow.
 
If the question was should Apple make a browser, I'd have to say no. Or at least lend Chimera developers but let it keep it's spirit. Then just bundle it with the OS, like they do with IE without changing anything.

But the more interesting question would be, how does Apple make it it's own.
Perhaps we've all grown so used to the Mosaic style interface that it's hard to imagine something different, but if Apple's good at anything, it's thinking outside the box.
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How about a clean box with just a scroll bar and maybe a URL bar, and then a dock to control where you go. It would hold the forward/backward buttons and your bookmarks.

Suddenly it doesn't sound like such a good idea to me because my dock is so slow. But the idea of breaking from the mossaic interface to browse the web is interesting. Maybe someone can build from my idea.
 
I tend to use all of my browsers with the least interface-interruption possible, meaning that all 'bars' have vanished with only the location bar popping up on Cmd-L.

I don't think I need a _different_ interface. Tabs are a good idea, but I actually like watching web pages for themselves, with next to nothing around them.

Also, to 'think outside the box' here and replace the 'mosaic' interface with something different doesn't really help the user, as - like you said - he's used to it. It's a known principle of interface design to keep the interface monotonuous (what's that word in english?) so the user doesn't have to adapt, but it also applies to new interfaces and new designs. Would you want a car with some kind of innovative steering wheel replacement? Of course you could adapt, but the steering wheel (whether it was originally a bad or a good idea) is what 'users' know and know how to work with. Replace 'good & known' stuff only if your idea is better for _every_ user - not just some.
 
That's a great point fryke. Consistency should be embraced when it comes to something like a web-browser, especially if Apple aims to get users to migrate comfortably to the platform. A drastic change in form would be interesting, but I agree with you that it wouldn't be better for the user in the end.

I have my mixed feelings about Apple getting involved in the browser arena anyway... I mean I'm sure I'd use their browser (assuming it wasn't bloated and 'large'--which it very well could be), but it could have so many negative associations, such as the comparisons to Microsoft. I think the accusations are unfounded, but that doesn't mean that similarities aren't there for nay-sayers to latch on to.

Getting back to the interface issue: since there isn't a whole lot that Apple can safely do to innovate with the browser design, it makes me wonder why they should interject at all? If their primary purpose in 'taking over' the Chimera project is to help speed development or to aid and support the main developer, then I suppose I understand, but I guess I'm saying if Apple isn't going to do anything 'special', maybe it's not worth putting their name on it. I think I would be much more impressed if Apple helped with the Chimera project without putting their name on it. It would help show that they support the 'little guy', and aren't Microsoft-ish. Just my thoughts.
 
I think the best way would be to incorporate a web browser completely into Finder. The 10.2 Finder has back/forward buttons, a favorites submenu and a go menu. Stop and reload buttons could be placed in the toolbar. What more do you need?
 
Originally posted by ksv
I think the best way would be to incorporate a web browser completely into Finder. The 10.2 Finder has back/forward buttons, a favorites submenu and a go menu. Stop and reload buttons could be placed in the toolbar. What more do you need?
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Yeah, that would be great. Similar to what Microsoft did with IE and their Explorer shell right?

Now we would have an Apple browser that we couldn't uninstall, not to mention that if crashed, Finder would likely crash as well.

No, on second thought, I'd rather have a seperate browser that wouldn't potentially conflict with OS X nor cause my system to come crashing down.
 
Originally posted by azosx


Yeah, that would be great. Similar to what Microsoft did with IE and their Explorer shell right?

Now we would have an Apple browser that we couldn't uninstall, not to mention that if crashed, Finder would likely crash as well.

No, on second thought, I'd rather have a seperate browser that wouldn't potentially conflict with OS X nor cause my system to come crashing down.
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No, there could be two Finders on the same machine, one with a browser, one without. No problem.

How often so Apple applications crash on your machine? ;)
 
What if Apple builds its own browser and charges $129 for it? or better yet, how about sherlock 4 with browsing capabilities built-in.. and it is only a $99 a year subscription... ($49 for the first year of course!)... :rolleyes:

Why would Apple be interested in getting back into the Apple branded browser business again? They failed miserably the first time... and with the way Apple is, they wont make the same mistake twice. Usually, if something doesn't work for Apple, we never see it again... Ala CyberDog, Newton, Cube, etc...

If anything, they are just going to up the ante on their Sherlock program, and use this guys obvious talent with Cocoa.

The developer that took over Chimera from David, doesn't appear to be stopping Chimera.

Personally, I dont think Chimera is going anywhere, it will continue to grow, maybe, just maybe, apple will throw some bones towards it, to encourage its growth. But... ??? Ibrowse? Pleeze....
 
I'd like to see a Sherlock web channel. Where Sherlock interfaces with, say, this forum, and it can show a list of topics, threads and an actual thread in three separate panes. And you could click on a user name and then it would allow you to e-mail or go to the web page of that poster. I think that would fit perfectly with what Apple's trying to do with Sherlock 3.

I'll post a mock-up as soon as I make one so you people can see what I mean.
 
Originally posted by serpicolugnut
I don't see it on my machines. On my machines, Navigator is faster in just about every aspect than both OmniWeb, IE and especially Mozilla/Netscape. It renders faster, it scrolls pages faster, it launches faster, and I don't have any problem with typing speed in text fields.
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On some pages it is also REALLY sluggish in scrolling. I am using a mouse with a scrolling wheel, and sometimes the browser doesn't react to that at all, I have to click into the page, sometimes several times.
And also when I go above a link, sometimes the cursor just won't turn into the little hand.

B/W G3, 450MHz.
 
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