Chimera programmer feeling way down...

[chevy]

This is written using Chimera.

ScottW, do you have any statistics how many access to the www.macosx.com are made using Chimera ?

 

[stealth]

i dont think he does. but u could do a poll on it

 

[doemel]

Tabs are not compatible with the official Apple GUI guidelines afaik. So you'll not see tabbed windows in Safari (at least not before Apple substantially reforms their GUI or hell freezes over ).

Originally posted by hulkaros
[...]I am sure that Apple will go ahead and incorporate Tabs (and other features ofcourse) and that's when Chimera will be in trouble... [...]

 

[kendall]

There's tabs all over OS X???

 

[toast]

I can't see why tabs would not compatible with the official Apple GUI guidelines. As far as I know, you can find tabs in many applications.

This link shows a Chimera page with 16 tabs (maximum allowed by my system). You can open this link in a new window/tab, as you like
http://www.ifrance.com/thinkhybrid/posts/16tabs.jpg

 

[hulkaros]

Originally posted by doemel
Tabs are not compatible with the official Apple GUI guidelines afaik. So you'll not see tabbed windows in Safari (at least not before Apple substantially reforms their GUI or hell freezes over ).

Or simply they will decide that if they want to listen to their customers they MUST include Tabs in Safari or...

...they will add a whole new twist on Tabs in Safari which I would like to see it happen...

Who knows? A dock-like way of handling multiple web pages inside Safari? Hmmmmm

 

[solrac]

oh yes that brings another point, tabs are useful even if the text gets truncated due to too many tabs being open, because the web site icon is on each tab!!! (see toast's screenshot above)

 

[fryke]

well, check that window again.

seems like some websites _don't_ have those icons, and if you open several windows of a site (different pages), you're lost. and when i'm working on several pages of a website, that'd happen a lot.

But again: The discussion is quite useless, since users can use the feature if they want - but don't have to.

I really think a better UI would be good. Any ideas how to make a better interface for multiple pages?

 

[solrac]

yeah a better UI would float the name of the whole tab in a floating tooltip on rollover of the tab. Or use a cool mac os x graphics thing and make the rolled-over tab grow to show the whole title, and make all the other tabs shrink, sort of like the dock, but for tabs. Cool huh??? Too bad a dual 1.25 ghz G4 is too slow to process that HAHAHAHAHHA

 

[Cat]

Tabs are not compatible with the official Apple GUI guidelines afaik.

Where do you guys finde these "official guidelines"? Are they online somewhere at Apple?

I think the disussion about which browser would be better and why is in a certain sense helpful to Pinkerton, since this gives him a lot of feedback about why people use Chimera and why they use Safari instead. It is quite clear that many of us prefer Chimera because of tabs. If Chimera is gaining in speed and stability for many (me included) it will remain the primary browser: that should be an encouraging thought. Moreover, Safari is being programmed by Apple, a big company with loads of money and experience. Chimera is an open source project: the fact they still are of comparable quality is also a compliment for Pinkerton. So I don't think the discussion is pointless and rude.

Solrac: I'm very willing to go on discussing about opinions vs. facts, but not here. Care to take it to the Café?

 

[solrac]

Cat, I'm cool, I don't need to discuss tabs and such at the cafe, heheh. But the apple guidelines you wonder about is a giant book created by apple quite a while ago called the Human Interface Guidelines (HIG). It's available on apple.com deep in their web site somewhere.

It even has rules on how to make icons, for chrissake! Like some icons should be viewed as in straight ahead (like utilities), and productivity tools should be more 3D like. (or something like that.)

But tabs have been a part of mac windows and control panels for years, right?

 

[solrac]

p.s. ... in fact tabs in chimera are the standard cocoa interface tabs i believe

 

[fryke]

control panels, not windows per se. the chimera tabs may be 'standard cocoa tabs', but they're not implemented as mentioned in the HIG.

 

[sheepguy42]

I guess my frustration in this discussion stems from two things:
1) I don't use tabs, and many others don't too, so saying that a browser is not good until it has them (which some here practically did say) is just plain silly, and
2) solrac seems to ignore the fact that this is a text based conversation, so some of us might like a clue (as others give in their own ways) as to when he is or is not being serious. Maybe I should see it, but I have dealt with too many people who hold seriously to rediculous claims in the past to see it anymore.

 

[fryke]

that's two good points, sheepguy42.

my personal guess is that solrac got upset with people who don't see chimera as the holy grail. i hope the discussion will calm down a bit. i'm sure there'll be another round of browser discussions soon, but this thread should really be on the topic of the programmer who considers stepping down...

 

[solrac]

I'm serious when I say tabs are the best, and that a browser without tabs is an incomplete browser. That is how great and useful this whole tabs thing is. Everything else I said is in humor, but based in truth.

 

[evildan]

Originally posted by solrac
Ok first of all...

The argument that the world was flat was at that time a scientific fact. This was not opinion.

I'm talking about opinions that are so widely held, that they become fact. The fact that the michelangelo is a beautiful statue will never change, because it is inherently an opinion, as good as a fact.

No, I'm sorry you're mistaken. The argument that the world was flat was a misconception not a fact. It was never prooven to be a fact. And like all opinions, people had differing views. Despite popular belief, NOT everyone believed the world was flat.

Opinion that is "widely accepted" does not automatically become a fact, it becomes "popular opinion." Popular opinion is subject to the conditions of an opinion. All opinions have varying points of view.

What you are talking about solrac, among other things, is ignorance. Ignorance that your opinion is the only opinion that matters, because you feel your opinion is of the majority.

Your preference, as you have so openly shared with all of us, is that you like Tabs. I, for one don't like Tabs, I think it's an inefficient way of navigating the way I have conditioned myself to navigate.

And just because 97% of the world uses windows doesn't mean windows is more liked. Just because one uses something doesn't mean it's their favorite. Otherwise everyone would be driving ferraris. People use windows because its cheaper and has more games.

No people are using window because the penetrated the market first. But you do raise an interesting point here solrac. Under your conditions, your opinion does not matter. Since you are among a minority, of which the majority are the people using Windows 98, Internet Explorer, your request for tab browsers is moot.

I don't agree with that any more then anyone else posting in this thread. You have a right to post your opinion, but you do not have the right to put down the opinions of others... and despite the fact that you can't seem to get your mind around the fact that not everyone likes tabs, guess what, they don't.

Say what you want about browsers don't distort the english language in order to facilitate your need to be right.

 

[ScottW]

Thread is closed.

Move on people... nothing to see here.