DMG has no installer

K

kevinmcl

Registered
Hi,

I've been using computers for a while, but only recently got a Mac. I've installed several apps on my MacBook Pro with OSX 10.5.7, both as downloaded drop-and-run, self-contained executable apps and as DMGs with app-plus-baggage.

Most of the DMGs, when I open them, show that nice, simple icon-of-the-app on the left, and a big arrow pointing to "Applications" on the right, and I just click and drag the app icon to the "Applications" icon and installation happens. Everything goes where it's supposed to, I can get rid of the DMG, and happiness reigns.

Fine.

SOME DMGs, however, have a bunch of files and folders in 'em, but they don't provide that installer dialog. A newbie would think "OK, just find an executable among all those files and drag that to "Applications". This, of course, does not work. The application might start up, but it's missing all the bits and pieces and plug-ins that still reside in the DMG.

A worldly Mac guru would then say: "Well obviously you drag all those other bits over to <the place where they need to be and where your new app expects to find them>". The newbie would come back with: "And just where IS that <place where all the ancillary pieces need to be>, and how would I know that?" (There's no "README.TXT" saying where stuff should go or how to make sure it's accessible to the executable application.)

And that's where I am right now. I've got a DMG full of FreeMind 0.8.1, which is:

- FreeMind.app
- freemind.properties
- [dir]plugins
- [dir]accesories
- [dir] doc

All those "[dir]" things are meant to indicate directories or folders.
The "doc" folder contains... (drum-roll please...) a FreeMind file that needs working Freemind to view.
I dragged "FreeMind.app" directly from the DMG to "Applications" folder, and it starts but is crippled.
So, two questions:

1) Where does all of that stuff go, and how does Mac tell FreeMind.app where to find them? Is it expected that I just stuff them somewhere (where?) and manually edit a system PATH statement to point there? Or is there an elegant MAC way that this is supposed to happen?

2) How did you know that (and thus, how should I have known it and not had to ask this newbie question)?

I'm asking about FreeMind because it's the latest, but I've encountered a few others that didn't have an installer script in the DMG, thus the same problem. Some of them I use in crippled fashion, but most I just throw away. I really should know how to install the non-automatic DMGs. Any help?

Thanks,

- Kevin (in Ottawa, Canada, mostly enjoying his Mac)

PS: The wife (with her old Windoze laptop) is mostly envious of my new Mac until something like this happens, then the sneers come out and I have to admit that I have no ammunition to counter her Mac-skepticism.

PPS: If this is already answered somewhere, please point me and accept my apology for a new thread. I did forum searches and scanned through about 200 "DMG" related threads before my eyes started to bleed
 
I downloaded the freemind app.
The dmg opens to a folder with everything inside.
I think you are making this much more difficult than it really is.
All you need to do is copy that complete folder out to where ever you like.
You don't have to decide where anything else go. This is pretty typical for Mac software. If the installer doesn't put files somewhere special, then you can usually assume that those files don't need to go anywhere special. If there is no actual installer, and no obvious instructions, then you can use it as is, usually copying out to the desktop, or to the Applications folder, if you want to keep track of it there.
In this case, it's simple because freemind is a Java app, which usually has everything in the same location (that folder)
The other thing to remember is: you don't need to tell OS X about the path, and where the associated files are. That's part of what a properly written app does, getting assistance from the OS X finder and file system.
As many folks will say, it's a Mac, it just works.... (well, yes, that might be wishful thinking at times, but more often than not, it does just work)
 
DeltaMac said:
All you need to do is copy that complete folder out to where ever you like.
You don't have to decide where anything else go. This is pretty typical for Mac software. If the installer doesn't put files somewhere special, then you can usually assume that those files don't need to go anywhere special.
Click to expand...

I often create folders for applications which have extra files like readme.txt. It's just easier that way so I don't have stray read me files scattered all around. If there's any question about where to put extra files I just create the new folder with the app name.

As an aside, I usually put apps I'm just trying out to see if they're keepers in my user Applications folder (~/applications), not the main Applications folder. Eventually I move them to the main Applications folder if they're non beta and I want to keep them. Some like Webkit and Minefield never leave the ~/Applications folder because they're always being updated.
 
What DeltaMac is saying is some apps need associated files for functionality. Just take the whole folder full of contents and drop the folder into the applications folder. Examples of other apps that function like this are at least the last 3 versions of Microsoft Office, Filemaker Pro, Appleworks, iWork...
 
This application (Freemind) comes in its enclosing folder already. So you don't need to create a folder for it. Just drag the folder out of the mounted image.

Those apps that djackmac mentioned have installers, although the installer is simply a file copy into a default location, usually the Applications folder. MS Office 2008 does not have the drag and drop option of older versions, and comes as an installer app, although you can drag the installer to your hard drive, and then have a somewhat faster install. Other downloads may simply have a folder with some files.
Most .dmg downloads at least provide some information about what to do with the installer/files. In this case, Freemind doesn't give a clue about what to do with the folder full of files that it provides.
 
OK, I clicked the "Thanks" button on each of those because the first post was informative (mostly) and the succeeding posts each added a little bit to either clarify what DeltaMac was saying the first time, or to provide additional info.

SO-o-o-o-o-o, I guess it makes sense. Move the entire folder to the Applications folder, and run it from there. As long as the app and its ancillary bits-and-pieces remain in the same relative positions with each other, it doesn't matter where the cohesive mess actually lives.

I guess the reason I was making it more difficult than it was is that when I got the Mac, pretty well all apps were single files in the Applications /d/i/r/e/c/t/o/r/y/... er... folder. They did have other pieces, dependencies, add-ons, plug-ins, etc., but those lived in some standard system directories.... er, I mean folders, and I didn't need to be aware unless I was uninstalling or replacing. So, it appeared that the clean and Mac-ish way was to have the executable app file in the main Applications directory, and that's what I've tried to emulate each time I add something.

Turns out I should just live with having to go an extra folder "down-tree" to launch an app. It's not so much a Windoze hang-over as it is a Linux one - needing to know where stuff is supposed to live, and keeping track of all the "standard" landing spots for this-and-that.

But now I have to ask why Simbalala finds it more efficient or comfortable to keep frequently-changing applications under ~Applications folder than under the system-wide "Applications" folder. What's the advantage? Is it only that you don't have to authenticate as administrator when installing? Or am I overlooking something again?

- Kevin (still in Ottawa, but more informed...)
 
Two things...

Realize that an application is already a folder, it contains the “real” executable file and support files inside. It's easy enough to see, choose an app, right click and choose “Show package contents”. Almost everyone reading this site already knows this.

About using the ~/Applications folder...

I use it as a sandbox. If I download and install something to try it out it goes in there. It's an easy folder to examine without a ton of stuff in it. I know why stuff is in there and also know that I don't have to think very hard about trashing something that is in there. I might throw away something five minutes after starting it for the first time if I don't like it, no worries. I can also look in there from time to time and just throw away apps I've not used in a long time because it's not a serious place to me, if an app was important or hard to replace it would be in the other folder.

I'm the only user of this machine so I've no need to worry about other users but if I did it would only make the case for using ~/Applications as a sandbox stronger. It's MY sandbox.

On the other hand the contents of my /Applications folder is serious stuff to me. If I've put or moved something into it I need to treat it more carefully.
 
Just try to imagine life without a registry, then you will appreciate Mac. No add/remove programs feature to deal with and still needing to worry about pieces of long since gone applications bloating the registry. If you don't like an app, drag and drop it in the trash! Most of the time just drag the app in the applications folder and be done with it for installation. But some other programs require the entire folder to be located under applications. Other programs will make you run an installer and an uninstaller. Once you've gotten used to Mac you will just know which program requires what kind of installation to run correctly.
 
I've certainly done my share of registry tweaks in my time - not as a "pro"... more as a nervous amateur who had to pick his way through the minefield, re-learning every year or so. (Anything I don't use frequently, I lose. Registry editing was a skill I tried to not use frequently... hey, I say that like it's in the past, but I still have to use Windoze on two machines at work, five days a week...).

Also at work, and at home since 1996, I've used Linux, where an app is NOT a folder; it's a single executable, but it SHOULD be a folder because it comes with or relates to dozens or hundreds of dependencies. I think there's no such thing as a self-contained app in Linux. But package managers in Linux had already gotten very slick and smooth (for the most part) by the time I discovered Macs (most recently... I also had a fling with a Mac and PageMaker at a job in 1990, but Macs have changed a little between then and this year) :) .

I'm a bit disturbed by Simbalala's comment "Almost everyone reading this site already knows this."

I live in Ottawa, where we don't yet have a Mac store, but I've been to the ones in Montreal and Laval a couple of times, and couldn't help but overhear the tenor of questions at the "Genius Bar". So, either the implication is that most of the people who would frequent a Mac store would never [think to, let alone actually] look to a place like macosx.com, because they have no interest at all in what goes on behind the screen or.... well.... not sure what the other side of the implication might be. Do some people know how Macs work inside, from birth? Or are some issued a "here are things you should know" pack that the rest of us don't get?

The same barrier exists as with Linux. All the info is out there, probably in many places. The problem is not a matter of being interested or of asking questions - the problem is knowing which questions to ask and understanding which of a million bits of information weighs more. What comes first, the chicken or the egg? For that matter, which one is the chicken and which one is the egg? To the newbie, everything is equally important because it doesn't come labeled "you need to know this first"; there's no obvious way to distinguish a hierarchy of relevance and importance.

At some point, you know enough and have made enough connections, and it all falls into place.... and you are a guru and are rolling your eyes at the questions that all these darn newbies keep asking. By the way, I looked through the FAQ first and I browsed this Switchers topic back until the dates on the posts started getting dusty (or 2005) and didn't see anything, which is why I asked my question.

Anyway, thanks for filling in a couple of [important?] pieces.

Regards,

- Kevin

PS: I'm writing this in a tab on Firefox, where i just hit "reload page" from yesterday and then re-logged in, and before I started the Reply, there were NO "Thanks" buttons on any of the posts. But when I look in another tab, also left over from yesterday (might have been the one that opened from the "you have some replies" e-mail alert), those same messages all DO have the "Thanks" button attached. Is this another one of those "everybody reading this forum already knows why/how that works"? Cuz I don't...
 
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