Dock in right side of menu bar

[Piet Keizer]

Both dock and menu bar take more place than they need.

So the dock needs an option to be put over the menu bar, on the right side.

Tell me if you agree and if you think it's important!

 

[VGZ]

You mean something similar to TaskMenuBar?

 

[Piet Keizer]

Exactly. Use it and you'll never want to go back to the Dock, A-Dock, Drag Thing or whatever unelegant desktop clutter the world is offering.

 

[atoms]

I agree that your idea would make a great option. It seems that a lot of real estate it is tied up with this stuff.

I generally have the dock set as small as possible. Most of the time there would be room to cram it into the menu bar.

I would also love to see (or hear about) an easy way to modify the size of the menubar (and it's fonts and images) itself.

Ive been waiting for my trusty old NEC Multisync 4fge 15 inch monitor to die, but it just keeps on working and looking great. But I dunno if the designers at Apple (or anywhere else these days) do much testing on an 800x600 display...

 

[scruffy]

But if the dock were on the right side of the menu bar, where would I put my mouse-tracker eyeballs?

 

[VGZ]

Something to consider is the clock and apps that have menus that go all the way to the edge of the screen on the monitors of iMacs. I have had apps that the menus went all the way to the clock and my monitors is 17" @ 1280x1024.

It would be a nice option but could cause problems w/ smaller monitors and the clock.

 

[Piet Keizer]

When the menu doesn't leave enough space, there are several options:
- the dock might minimize only horizontally,
- the dock might turn into one button that shows the dock when moved over or pressed
- you drag it out of the menu bar, and use it the way it works right now (!).

At this moment, the dock is especially nasty when Classic apps are running. The bottom of windows very often end up behind the dock and white squares appear when the windows are moved.

ps. scruffy, those eye balls will certainly appear as a dockling one day.

 

[endian]

ick, no, i'd *hate* this! what would be the point? If the dock takes up too much space, make it smaller or hide it.

At this moment, the dock is especially nasty when Classic apps are running. The bottom of windows very often end up behind the dock and white squares appear when the windows are moved.

This is a redraw issue with Classic, and has nothing to do with the dock. Hopefully Apple can work out a fix; if not, well, Classic won't be around forever. Most Carbon apps know not to resize behind the dock already.

scruffy, those eye balls will certainly appear as a dockling one day.

Only if Apple changes the dockling api to allow docklings to find out their location.

 

[tie]

I personally like the Dock best at the left side of the screen, just visually. I usually have it at the right side, though, because Classic apps don't like it at the bottom or left. I don't know if I'd like it in the menubar. I just wish popup menus in OS X were faster. If the dock orientation menu popped up just a quarter of a second faster, that would make me happy. (Or the recent items menu, which it takes about 2 seconds to rebuild every time I click on it. Why isn't this just a folder like in OS 9?)

 

[Piet Keizer]

ick, no, i'd *hate* this! what would be the point? If the dock takes up too much space, make it smaller or hide it.

After all, it's indeed a matter of feeling, just like Endian puts it. Like my idea gives Endian the creeps, the current situation gives me the creeps.

My point is the trilemma I get because of the unusable screenspace to both sides of the dock. It makes me want to make the dock bigger, smaller and invisible at the same time.

Bigger, to make that unusable screen space at least *seem* useful. I know this is doesn't really make sense, but intuition is even more important.
And smaller, to make my screen more useful while still seeing the dock.
And invisible, to make my screen really useful and to get rid of the redraw issues (which may indeed be solved a different way).

The possibility to change position and size of the dock every minute wouldn't solve my trilemma. I want all options at the same time!

That's why I think the dock-inside-menu-bar would be the best solution. Or maybe seperating horizontal and vertical resizing?

 

[VGZ]

Just thought of something else. If you put the Dock into the menubar it will be hidden when you open a Classic app.

Personally I use the Dock pinned to the right-side of the screen at the bottom with NeXbar on the right edge with other apps in it.

 

[thedbp]

There is a very easy shortcut keystroke to hide/show the dock. Option-Command-D. Also, if you turn off magnification, it makes the Dock less intrusive. TaskMenuBar was OK, but it doesn't offer the functionality of the dock... I'm not sure I understand all this resistance to the dock anyway ... its not like you HAVE to use it or even see if you don't want to, and it does so many useful things ... I mean geez, lay off, its better, more complete, and offers more functionality than any other appswitcher/document holder/folder browser/app launcher/etc. out there. Leave the dock alone. Its doing the best it can, and I've yet to see anyone make something better.
zjd

 

[erdunbar]

Originally posted by thedbp
its not like you HAVE to use it or even see if you don't want to, and it does so many useful things ... I mean geez, lay off, its better, more complete, and offers more functionality than any other appswitcher/document holder/folder browser/app launcher/etc. out there. Leave the dock alone. Its doing the best it can, and I've yet to see anyone make something better.
zjd

Please, tell me how to delete the dock. You are forced to use it, like it or not. There's no way to hide it fully. Having it pop-up whenever you pass the cursor over the bottom of the screen is a pain in the ars!

And, in fact someone did make something better. Apple did it with the application switcher, the OS 7/8/9 Apple menu, application menu, and launcher!!! The dock is suffering from the same problem that nearly every recent Office suite suffers from: tries to be everything to everyone with lots of creeping featuritis.

PS How do you move the bloody dock to the side of the screen. I've seen people write about it but I can't for the life of me use a control, command, shift, option click or find a preference which will allow me to do it!!!

 

[thedbp]

There's a few places you'll likely be able to find "Docking Maneuvers." Try www.stepwise.com, www.macosxapps.com, or www.versiontracker.com. one of them HAS to have it. It lets you do all sorts of neat things with the dock, which just might give you a fresh perspective on this useful tool.

Also, keep in mind that this is the first time we've seen the Dock. It will change based on our requests to apple. So use it - it isn't going anywhere. Figure out what you DO like, what you'd like changed, and tell Apple. I figure in 1 year the Dock will be a very different animal from what it is now, just as it was very different in 10.0 than it was in the PB. Frankly I miss my control strip terribly, and 'docklings' just get lost in the shuffle of icons ... well, any way you stack it, the OS is going to keep changing and evolving. I'm not worried in the least.

on a side note, have you seen an Apple store? I live about 1 hr from the McClean store, and made sure to be there opening day. Can I say "pass me that drool-guard"?

zjd

 

[erdunbar]

Originally posted by thedbp
There's a few places you'll likely be able to find "Docking Maneuvers." Try www.stepwise.com, www.macosxapps.com, or www.versiontracker.com. one of them HAS to have it. It lets you do all sorts of neat things with the dock, which just might give you a fresh perspective on this useful tool.

Also, keep in mind that this is the first time we've seen the Dock. It will change based on our requests to apple. So use it - it isn't going anywhere. Figure out what you DO like, what you'd like changed, and tell Apple. I figure in 1 year the Dock will be a very different animal from what it is now, just as it was very different in 10.0 than it was in the PB. Frankly I miss my control strip terribly, and 'docklings' just get lost in the shuffle of icons ... well, any way you stack it, the OS is going to keep changing and evolving. I'm not worried in the least.

zjd

If Apple doesn't do the evolving others certainly will.

BTW I found something that gave me hope:
http://asm.vercruesse.de/
ASM 1.1.1 (Application Switcher Menu) resurrects the ASM from OS 8/9 in its original form (now we need the old application switcher back & I'll be happy).

 

[Tigger]

I don't think I would like it, nonetheless I voted with yes, cause even if I wouldn't do it, I want to be able to do it...

 

[Lüftwaffle]

I would like an option to get rid of it!


It's bloody annoying, get's in the way of many things and violates the "Human Interface Guidelines" (As set out by Apple themselves). I for my part prefer DragThing.

Kill the Dock !

 

[aishafenton]

Why such hatred?

I agree that the dock could be better.. but I don't understand (some of) the Mac communities hatred of the dock? When it is one million times better than the classic approach!!!

The dock does take up space.. so why not use the auto-hide feature??
It's great! It takes up no space at all and when you mouse down you can get a full sized dock pop-up??

Regardless I'm sure the dock will improve with age..

 

[apb3]

It's all a matter of opinion obviously. I don't think anyone on either side of the issue needs to get all hot and bothered about it or about the opinions of others. I happen to like the dock - a lot.
The only thing I don't like is the fact that we have the redundant menu bar at the top. I guess you could say the dock is the redundant piece of the pie, but as I said, I happen to like the dock so I'd rather lose the menu bar.
I realize that apps need their menus but surely those menus could be implemented within the app window. If the apps make their own menus in their own windows, then that just leaves the clock and the apple menu everyone, it seems except me, begged apple to replace. But, you've got to admit the "Apple Menu" in its current incarnation isn't really the apple menu at all - at least not what it used to be. The clock is easily implemented in the dock.
I've sent feedback to apple re: this but am interested in others' opinions.
Also, I'm no programmer but how easy would it be to kill the menu bar? How deeply ingrained is this part of the UI and how involved would extricating it from the overall UI be?

 

[thedbp]

The reason the menu bar is there is because on windows, and countless other OSes, you may never be quite sure where your menus will be. If they are window-dependant, they get moved and shuffled around, it is inconsistent. The Mac way is to always have them in the same place - so you always know where they are in relation to where the mouse is, etc. Its a reference point more than anything else, and its a necessary part of the UI. Both for new users trying to learn the system (its very easy to figure out that you ALWAYS go to the top of the screen to pick commands), and power users who have so many open windows that searching for each individual menu bar would be distracting, time consuming, and pointless.

thedbp