don't "switch"

habilis

habilis

Ministry of Re-Education
About a month ago I bought a new Power Mac G4 Dual 1ghz, and ever since that fateful purchase I have been INCREDIBLY dissatisfied with every aspect of this machine. First I should say that I use a G4 450MHz at work for 8+ hours a day and am quite familiar with the Macintosh system, have been using for the last 5 years along with windows. What Apple doen't tell you is that Jaguar is actually a Turtle. At first I was dismayed with how slow folder navigation was and the fact that the finder crashed about once every hour. The other thing that bugged me was the disgustingly long page times and general lock-ups that plagued the simplest of tasks and navigation. In particular was my folders full of digital photography images - about 2-300 jpegs per folder ranging in file size from about .5 to 1.3MB, opening that folder in the finder window would bring the OS to a TOTAL halt for about 30-40 seconds. In Windows ME with FULL PREVIEWS on that same folder took less than 5 seconds and didn't lock up the system while it paged. I thought that it must be a lack of RAM, so I upgraded to a full Gig of Apple-spec RAM only to be disappointed again when it hardly made a hair of difference- now it took 28 seconds insted of 30. I called Apple and they said they you CAN'T turn off Virtual Memory!?!?! I looked at the Process viewer and found that "Jaguar" was using 90% Virtual and only 10% Physical RAM for almost all apps - That's Pathetic. What we have here is a dumbing down of the OS as well as a slowing down of all that's associated with it. Sure the thing runs like a speed demon when I run in Classic but that's not why I bought the machine. I think we need to be asking ourselves more fundemental questions about OS's - for example, shouldn't a newer "More Improved" OS, and especially one named for the FASTEST LAND MAMMAL ON EARTH be Faster??? and maybe a little more stable??? The truth is my G4 450MHz at work is easily more stable and gets the job done just as well as this waste of money I'm stuck with now. It has nothing to do with a Hardware Failure. I ran all the memory and hardware tests and then went to Compucenter just to try out the same one there to make sure - same B.S. So my hat's off to Apple for pulling the wool over so many people's eyes. And it's a crying shame that all these poor devout Mac people out there(that used to be me) are in a total state of denial about how much Apple now sucks. Apple took every that was good about Macs out of OSX and put in everything that was bad about Windows - THANKS. We need to face this problem head on, accept that Apple's Glory Days are over, and go get yourself a copy of XP. By the way, If anyone knows how to turn off Virtual Memory without the aid of a Haxie, I'd like to know how to do that before I put this thing up on eBay.
 
I suspect you might actually have something wrong with your system. I'd suggest running the standard batch of checks and balances, including the hardware diagnostic CD, and verifying the hard disk and permissions. Even on my iBook 500 with only 128mb RAM, I can scroll through a folder of 320 JPEGs - with previews at full size - with no real delay under 10.2.2. At worst it will take five seconds to open the folder, but then scroll nicely.

It could possibly be a bad RAM chip. That would explain the virtual memory figures - which are far from right - as well as the crashing.

If you do find anything wrong with your system, you should be able to get it corrected under warranty.
 
How did you determin Jaguar "was using 90% Virtual and only 10% Physical RAM for almost all apps" through Processor Viewer? I'm dying to know! :D
 
Your keyboard is broken too. The return key isn't making new paragraphs like it's supposed to. :)

The Finder has some suck issues, I agree there. And if you can't feel the difference between Mac OS X and XP, by all means go with XP. It runs on cheaper hardware. Me, I'd give up computers before I lived on Windows. It's really that bad in my opinion. And don't think I have my eyes closed, I just get bothered to a different degree by different things. But the Finder, yeah, it's not very multitasking. I have fishing line with more threads than the Finder.

As for the VM thing ... you really need to come up to speed on how VM works in a modern OS before you criticize the lack of a turn it off switch. It's pretty much essential in a protected memory environment. Also, what's allocated is not necessarily swapped out, it's known to be empty and will likely never be used, so it doesn't occupy expensive RAM. In fact it's not really in VM either, it's just preallocated in case it's needed.

And I could be off here, but isn't the Cheetah the fastest land animal / land mammal? Cheetah was 10.0, right? If you want your code names to reflect reality, then it should make you happy that Copland is dead in more ways than one. ... oh I'm gonna do some time in Hell for that one.

Anyway, let us know when your Mac goes up on eBay. If I can convince myself that my dual 450 isn't keeping up with me any more I may be in the market for a faster machine that runs something that's not Windows.

running top in the terminal gives some lovin' that process viewer does not, btw. ... he he he, top says I have ~8G of VM allocated right now.
 
Hmmm... this sounds eerily familiar...

You wouldn't, by any chance, be using Unix File System (UFS) instead of Mac OS Extended (HFS+)?

UFS causes problems (unless you know EXACTLY why you want UFS) - one of the biggest problems with UFS is GUI speed.

Switch to HFS+ and be happy.
 
Looks like I'm not so smart when it comes to mammals or punctuation after all... Anyway, Tormente, how do I find what file system I'm using? I did a search in mac help and came up dry(as usual).

P.S. Does anybody know if I can legally advertise what apps I have installed on this machine when(and if) I put it up on ebay? I intend to say "All software installed and working on machine, however, I keep all software installation discs and manuals" This would infer probable tomfoolery, and that I'm going to install them on another machine... or is that gonna be illegal?
 
Originally posted by habilis
P.S. Does anybody know if I can legally advertise what apps I have installed on this machine when(and if) I put it up on ebay? ... or is that gonna be illegal?
Click to expand...
Most software is not "transferrable"... Nor is it okay to install the same software on multiple machines for anything other than personal use...

So keeping the disc's and not wiping the software from the machine is clearly not legit.

http://www.spa.org/piracy/faq/
 
Habilis:

I'm sorry you're having so much trouble. Jaguar on my 500 mHz iBook works very well. I've had only three kernel panics since I began using OS X over a year ago. It's been very stable.

There were a few exceptions: Forgetting to unmount a firewire floppy before unplugging it crashed OS 10.1.5 (or was it .3 or .4?). Samba seemed to slow the machine down to a crawl. And when I first installed Jaguar, I had lots of weird things happen. After a couple restarts, everything was operating fine.

OS X 10.2.1 and .2 seemed to improve stability even more.

BTW, if you are selling your Mac and leaving the Mac world for the promised land of Windows, why are you keeping your Mac disks?


Fun story: No One Lives Forever crashes Windows XP (the whole system) if I leave it on for too long. That's happened four days in a row. It's a driver issue I'm sure. Windblows. . . gotta love it. Not to mention that something keeps dialing my ISP without asking, over and over again. AAAaaaargh!
 
Well, Windblows must be doin somthing right. I have no prejudices either way, I just know that OS 9 was amazing in it's elegant simplicity and rock solid work flow , and OSX must have been made for 70 year olds and pre-schoolers. I mean, soon enough I'll need to download haxies just to change my desktop. With XP, all the "haxies" are already built in and part of the OS. At least they give you the respect that you might be smart enough to adjust memory settings or the color of your windows... Apple is insulting my intelligence with this "built for the swith" OS. All I want is a freekin computer that works, and thats all I think, that any concious entity can ever hope for...
 
Originally posted by habilis
Looks like I'm not so smart when it comes to mammals or punctuation after all... Anyway, Tormente, how do I find what file system I'm using? I did a search in mac help and came up dry(as usual).

P.S. Does anybody know if I can legally advertise what apps I have installed on this machine when(and if) I put it up on ebay? I intend to say "All software installed and working on machine, however, I keep all software installation discs and manuals" This would infer probable tomfoolery, and that I'm going to install them on another machine... or is that gonna be illegal?
Click to expand...

I have not read ahead of the posts... but if you dare sell a machine without it's orginal software manuels or discs... Good luck to you in getting a sale... also I think from reading your posts so far that you aren't a Mac fan... So that leads me to ask you this? WHY DID YOU BOTHER TO POST HERE? on a DIE HARD MACOS X board?
 
Habilis,

I am was a die hard Wintel user for 12 years or since Windows 3.11 and DOS profiecent... Also not to mention A+ Certified in computer repair on all Windows or as Mac fans call them Wintel machines.

I know a Windows Machine inside out... From the workings of memroy from the workings of the idotic kernel file system that screws everything up half the time on Windows ME for example...

Before I ramble further... I made the switch to MAC OS-X on 11-25-02... and I made the switch after researching the pros and cons of going with MAC VS another Wintel upgrade.

The pros outweigh the cons... to me...

Those Pros are:

1. Complete stability... (No more ctrl-alt-del to pull up the task manager to force quit a program on 2k or XP...)
2. Simplicity... in GUI design... It's a no brainer to install programs on a MAC... (sure it may hurt a bit to uninstall some OS-X programs but that's what learning Unix is all about plus not to mention finding 3rd party programs like PrefOverload 5.1.2)
3. It took me no less than 15 mins out of the box with my Mac to set it up and get it running on the net... (Can Windows do this in 15 mins... No... try 30-45 mins... )
4. Mac OS-X is still a baby operating system in terms of how new it is... Sure there are bugs... but at least Mac doesn't pretend like MicroSoft, to deny bugs exist...
5. Mac OS is 128-bit... Windows is still at a pathetic 32-bit cross platform system... (Meaning it still wants to read 16 & 8 bit programs...) Mac doesn't need to rely on Ghz power because the pathway is already fast and large enough... Plus Bill Gates, is the one holding up development for a 64-bit processor which intel has been wanting to do for the past 2 years.

Now the Cons of Mac-Os X

1. I wish there was a way to make multiple docks...
2. wish there was a built in defragmenter but it's ok because the way Mac works it doesn't really depend on fragmentation vs finding the file... it just quote "Works"
3. I really can't complain because Mac OS-X took a step away technically speaking of it's usual code OS 9... and has integrated Unix successfully in a GUI format.

My Personal thoughts

The best is yet to come... and by the way... I am running a Dual 867 Mhz with 1,256 ram ... and this thing flies... It's not slow... The boot time is about right... (They should bring back the Mac Smiley though...)

Sorry you have had a bad "Switching" experience but mine was "Awesome" I took the time to pay $200 for an 8 hour "Everything you want to know about OS-10.2.2" at the Mac Center here in Florida... and the gentleman had no problems discussing memory mangement and how things differ from OS 9 and how to be backward compatible.

If I were you I'd take the advice of some of the die hard Mac users and use your warrenty and take it to a Mac Authorized center... (Not a CompUSA... who claims they can fix macs...) but a real Mac Center... that specializes in them... I would bet that if it is bad memory they will help you fix it... If you accidentally had put the system in UFS format they will fix it for you since you seem hell bent on saying Mac's are the worst and don't Switch.

I am glad I made the switch because it works for me.

Sorry if this offends you or anyone else... More views are welcome.
 
There's no doubt that the GUI in OSX blows away windows, it always has, and don't get me wrong, I LOVE OS9. In fact I want a bumper sticker with that says "I'D RATHER BE ON OS9". As for 128 bit vs. 32, it really doesn't matter to me because all I see is the end product; that is, realativly slow navigation through the hard drive and only a slight increase in application launch time.
See, every day I crank up Photoshop 7 (50% max system RAM[512MB] - G4 dual 1GHz), Illustrator 10, Dreamweaver, and Explorer. Of course filters work faster, but not THAT much faster, and in Illustrator 10 I noticed hardly any improvement, even in launch time then in my G4-450MHz. I'm really trying to keep an open mind about osx, as for taking this thing in to have somebody check it out, well, I'm literally broke after buying the thing in the first place. I tried out the same machine at this place called Microcenter, and speedwise, it was exactly the same, Photoshop and everything. If you don't believe it, please do this test: (WITH NO OTHER APPS RUNNING)Launch Illustrator (ANY VERSION) and create a simple box. Now, hold down the space bar and move around on screen. Simple enough, now, do the same thing in OS9. Look at that difference!!
This is what I'm talking about. the difference between Win XP and Win ME or 2000 is that things still run just as fast on the newer OS. What a great idea. I know that that OSX is still young, but I don't 2 years to wait for an improvement.

P.S. - WHY, in all HELL, did they take away labels??!!?! Who was the GENIUS behind that brainstorm. I mean were they all sitting in a board meeting, and just decided amongst themselves they were a bad idea??? HAHA, no guys hang in there. Don't worry, I'm sure they'll be back in the newest OS upgrade that we'll get the pleasure of having to pay another 150.00 for. Apple's laughing all the way to bank fella's. We've been had.
 
Originally posted by habilis
There's no doubt that the GUI in OSX blows away windows, it always has, and don't get me wrong, I LOVE OS9. In fact I want a bumper sticker with that says "I'D RATHER BE ON OS9". As for 128 bit vs. 32, it really doesn't matter to me because all I see is the end product; that is, realativly slow navigation through the hard drive and only a slight increase in application launch time.
See, every day I crank up Photoshop 7 (50% max system RAM[512MB] - G4 dual 1GHz), Illustrator 10, Dreamweaver, and Explorer. Of course filters work faster, but not THAT much faster, and in Illustrator 10 I noticed hardly any improvement, even in launch time then in my G4-450MHz. I'm really trying to keep an open mind about osx, as for taking this thing in to have somebody check it out, well, I'm literally broke after buying the thing in the first place. I tried out the same machine at this place called Microcenter, and speedwise, it was exactly the same, Photoshop and everything. If you don't believe it, please do this test: (WITH NO OTHER APPS RUNNING)Launch Illustrator (ANY VERSION) and create a simple box. Now, hold down the space bar and move around on screen. Simple enough, now, do the same thing in OS9. Look at that difference!!
This is what I'm talking about. the difference between Win XP and Win ME or 2000 is that things still run just as fast on the newer OS. What a great idea. I know that that OSX is still young, but I don't 2 years to wait for an improvement.

P.S. - WHY, in all HELL, did they take away labels??!!?! Who was the GENIUS behind that brainstorm. I mean were they all sitting in a board meeting, and just decided amongst themselves they were a bad idea??? HAHA, no guys hang in there. Don't worry, I'm sure they'll be back in the newest OS upgrade that we'll get the pleasure of having to pay another 150.00 for. Apple's laughing all the way to bank fella's. We've been had.
Click to expand...

YOU SAID: I'm literally broke after buying the thing in the first place.

I orginally said... Hmmm you should be under Warrenty for 1 year... You basically than replied I went to another store etc... Did it on the same machine etc...

I say... Right..... Since you don't want to bring it back to the place you brought it from it could only mean 2 things... 1... You brought it through a mail order and refuse to ship it back for testing...

2. You're exagerating your system speed and there isn't much wrong with it.

3. (I know I said 2... but I can't resist) Your lazy and just looking for excuses to inadvertenly bash OS X.
 
Ya know that hurts. But, here's the real deal man, I've had to take a computer in for repars before and it took like 2 weeks. In my line of work, and especially right now, I can't afford the luxury of living life without it for that long, and besides, there's nothing physically wrong with it anyway - unless, there's somthing wrong with all of them.

P.S. here's what i really like about osx:
• sherlock rules
• drag n drop pictures from explorer right into folders rocks
• customizable view / folder options rock
• as far as killing locked up programs without killing the OS itself, ...rocks
• the sharp aqua look
• the way my camera mounts on the desktop with that cool custom icon
 
"Anyway, Tormente, how do I find what file system I'm using? I did a search in mac help and came up dry(as usual)."

Since no one has answered this for you, I will. Go to /Applications/Utilities/ and open "Disk Utility." When it launches you will see 5 tabs. The program automatically defaults to the "Information" tab. Select the appropriate Hard Drive from the menu on the left (usually a Maxtor HD). VERY IMPORTANT: Make sure the arrow next to the icon is pointing down otherwise you can't select your named HD. Select your hard drive name and it will tell you the format of said HD.

I hope that helps. Have you tried launching from single user mode and running check disk?

Kalantna
 
Originally posted by habilis
Ya know that hurts. But, here's the real deal man, I've had to take a computer in for repars before and it took like 2 weeks. In my line of work, and especially right now, I can't afford the luxury of living life without it for that long, and besides, there's nothing physically wrong with it anyway - unless, there's somthing wrong with all of them.

P.S. here's what i really like about osx:
• sherlock rules
• drag n drop pictures from explorer right into folders rocks
• customizable view / folder options rock
• as far as killing locked up programs without killing the OS itself, ...rocks
• the sharp aqua look
• the way my camera mounts on the desktop with that cool custom icon
Click to expand...

It's not that I was trying to bash you... but the place I brought my computer is strictly based to sell and repair Macs. Thus the name Mac Center... (Also they give clases to those who want to learn Mac fee based of course because nothing is for free.)

I know for a fact that since I've brought my Mac they have taken the time to ask me if there are any problems and if so they would gladly bend over backwards to solve it ASAP.

2 weeks still sounds excissive for wherever you brought your mac from for a waiting period...
 
My Story..
I also made the Switch from XP (1.6gig AMD, 64mg Geforce, SB Live etc). I had all the custom apps running on XP that would convince you that i was running a MAC. I do web developmentg (Photoshop, Dreamweaver, fireworks 3DSMAX) and i must say that in terms of speed....XP wins hands down.

Who cares...
1. about AQUA when OS9 runs faster

I have a PowerBook G4, 667mhz with 1gig ram. Even my old 1gig AMD bests this thing hands down. Im sorry i bought this PB...Should have bought a IBM laptop.

Lets face it .... OSX IS SLOWER THAN XP. Looks better .... but Slower. Hell i even had a better "DOCK" in XP than OSX.

Also putting PB up for sale...
 
Originally posted by Shardie
My Story..
I also made the Switch from XP (1.6gig AMD, 64mg Geforce, SB Live etc). I had all the custom apps running on XP that would convince you that i was running a MAC. I do web developmentg (Photoshop, Dreamweaver, fireworks 3DSMAX) and i must say that in terms of speed....XP wins hands down.

Who cares...
1. about AQUA when OS9 runs faster

I have a PowerBook G4, 667mhz with 1gig ram. Even my old 1gig AMD bests this thing hands down. Im sorry i bought this PB...Should have bought a IBM laptop.

Lets face it .... OSX IS SLOWER THAN XP. Looks better .... but Slower. Hell i even had a better "DOCK" in XP than OSX.

Also putting PB up for sale...
Click to expand...

It's amazing... the Wintel Basher's are out tonight... :confused: :confused: :confused:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top