Giving up on OS X - hate it

Z

Zeal

Registered
I keep on having serious problems with OS X 10.1.2 installed on my PowerBook G3 (Pismo) 384MB Ram - 6GB HD.

It starts with: when I have started up in OS 9.2.2 it shows the system folders in the Startup Disk control panel as being 10.1.2 and 9.2.2. However, when I startup in X it shows OS 9 as being version 9.1.2, OS X is shown correctly.
Next, when I have 9.2.2 set as my startup system, when I press Option at startup it does not show an option to start up in OS X - it only shows 9. Likewise, when OS X is the startup system, it only shows OS X - no sign of 9.2.2 to switch to. Does having both OS's on the same hard drive partition affect this in any way? It's only 6GB so I haven't thought the need to partition it to two 3GB partitions or anything like that.

The only software I have loaded is Office v.10 (everything else came with OS X except for iPhoto and iTunes). In Excel and Word, I keep getting warnings that it not save a document because there was insufficient room (can't remember if it says hard drive or ram - but I think I've had both). Excel or Word will then crash. Sometimes it locked the entire computer up and after a restart I can't startup in OS X. Also, because OS X was the startup system, it won't allow me to startup in OS 9 unless I startup from my OS 9 install CD and change the startup system to OS 9 from the Startup Disk control panel.

I'm also getting messages when running OS 9, something like, "some info may not have been saved - please check all recent files" etc etc. This comes up over and over again in a yellow system warning floating box. My hard drive then crashes. I think it is something to do with a corrupted Extents file, or something like that. But the HD is completely stuffed - can't format it, start up from it, mount it etc.

The only way I have worked out to reformat the HD is to use the Norton Disk Editor program that comes on the Norton Utilities CD that allows you to completely erase the Extents file things from the Boot sectors. Don't ask me what I'm doing - I think I'm writing directoy to the partition or boot sectors of the hard drive.

I've installed OS X three times now and then Office v.X and it has simply let me down. I hate OS X - soemthing I thought I would never do having owned Macs now since I bought my 512K-E. I spent a fortune to buy OS X and Office X so it seems a waste (NZ$800).

If I install OS X & 9 on the same partition, which one should I install first? Is there anything I should know about Office v.10 - is it a buggy piece of crap? I just want to thrown OS X away and go back to my tried and trusted 9.2.2. Please help me. Zeal :( :confused:
 
Hi there my antipodean cousin

First things first: If it is possible (I'll be doing it in a month) format your HDrive in HFS+ format, single partition, but make sure you do a low level format or "zero all data". It takes bloody ages (except your HDrive is small so maybe only a couple of hours) But what this does is it actually deletes EVERYTHING. Usually when you delete a file, the OS just removes the file markers. But what I've suggested ZERO's all data.
Then install 9.2.2. If you only have 9.1, keep using the Software Update program via internet until it says "you don'y need updating" Reboot just to make sure.

Then install 10.1, and agian do the Software Update thing until it says you're sweet.

Now when you want to boot into 9 use the Startup Disk System Preference Panel. It'll show the two OS's and you just click once on the OS 9 HD then straight away use the Apple Menu to restart.

In 9 to go to 10 use the System Disk Control Panel to select the OS X HD icon and again reboot straight away.

If you want to boot into X every time you can hgold down the "x" key or Apple/Command + x can't remember which and it'll boot into OS X.

One thing you could do now is boot into OS X, but immediatley hold down Apple + "s" this puts you into Single user mode. DO NOT DO ANYTHING ELSE OTHER THAN I TELL YOU. From this psosition you have the oportunity to declare war on China, Russia and Sweden. ie fuck your Mac up. But as long as you follow this, all will be well.

when the single USer mode has finished booting (looks like PC DOS) there'll be a line prompt (somewhere to type stuff)

just type:

fsck -y

exactly, including the space between the "k" and "-"


Then hit Enter

This will quickly check your Hard Drive and repair anything that needs to be repaired. Keep on doing this untill it says "the volume ------ appears to be OK" (------ means whatever you called your hard drive) then just type:

reboot

and it'll startup again normally. From here we can see if anything's up. But if you ask what I'd do, I'd format your Hard Drive, by booting up from the OS 9 CD and making sure the Disk Utility program you use is going to perform a LOW LEVEL FORMAT or ZERO ALL DATA. Also make sure that you're haveing HFS+ as your file system.

Hope that helps


On another note,where exactly are you from. I went backpacking accross NZ and met the love of my life. She's from CHCH, avonhead. I'll be over in July to go snowboarding and getting down to it with the lady!!!

I loved it over there, I really miss Trumpet icecreams!!! One day I'll retirte there.

Anyway

bye
 
Originally posted by Zeal
I keep on having serious problems with OS X 10.1.2 installed on my PowerBook G3 (Pismo) 384MB Ram - 6GB HD.

It starts with: when I have started up in OS 9.2.2 it shows the system folders in the Startup Disk control panel as being 10.1.2 and 9.2.2. However, when I startup in X it shows OS 9 as being version 9.1.2, OS X is shown correctly.
Next, when I have 9.2.2 set as my startup system, when I press Option at startup it does not show an option to start up in OS X - it only shows 9. Likewise, when OS X is the startup system, it only shows OS X - no sign of 9.2.2 to switch to. Does having both OS's on the same hard drive partition affect this in any way? It's only 6GB so I haven't thought the need to partition it to two 3GB partitions or anything like that.
Click to expand...

Well, since you're using ONE DISK, then the option thingy at startup won't work. That allows you to choose which DISK to start up from, not which partition to start up from. You've got two partitions, but you've still only got one disk, so option at startup does nothing (at least on older Macs). If you're using a newer Mac, like a G4 466, you can try holding '9' or 'X' at startup, and that should boot you into either OS 9 or OS X, respectively. Otherwise, '9' and 'X' at startup do nothing, like they do on my G4/400 PCI. What kind of computer do you have? How much RAM? What size hard drive? Any peripherals connected? Any upgrades you've added?

Originally posted by Zeal
The only software I have loaded is Office v.10 (everything else came with OS X except for iPhoto and iTunes). In Excel and Word, I keep getting warnings that it not save a document because there was insufficient room (can't remember if it says hard drive or ram - but I think I've had both). Excel or Word will then crash. Sometimes it locked the entire computer up and after a restart I can't startup in OS X. Also, because OS X was the startup system, it won't allow me to startup in OS 9 unless I startup from my OS 9 install CD and change the startup system to OS 9 from the Startup Disk control panel.
Click to expand...

Hmmm... well, it would be beneficial to know whether it's telling you you're out of RAM, which OS X shouldn't do (but might!), or hard drive space -- two VERY different things, two VERY different solutions.

Originally posted by Zeal
I'm also getting messages when running OS 9, something like, "some info may not have been saved - please check all recent files" etc etc. This comes up over and over again in a yellow system warning floating box. My hard drive then crashes. I think it is something to do with a corrupted Extents file, or something like that. But the HD is completely stuffed - can't format it, start up from it, mount it etc.

The only way I have worked out to reformat the HD is to use the Norton Disk Editor program that comes on the Norton Utilities CD that allows you to completely erase the Extents file things from the Boot sectors. Don't ask me what I'm doing - I think I'm writing directoy to the partition or boot sectors of the hard drive.
Click to expand...

Hmmm... don't ask you what you're doing? Yikes... some people complain that Norton hosed their systems while others have had nothing but praise about the program. If you don't know what you're doing, SimpleText or TextEdit is a MUCH better program to start pushing buttons blindly in than Norton Utilities is. Much safer for the system. You can wipe your entire hard drive in two or three short clicks in Norton -- not possible in TextEdit. If you really don't know what a function in Norton Utilities does, or the possible benefits of it, I'd recommend staying away from it or at least keeping those trigger-happy fingers under control!

Originally posted by Zeal
I've installed OS X three times now and then Office v.X and it has simply let me down. I hate OS X - soemthing I thought I would never do having owned Macs now since I bought my 512K-E. I spent a fortune to buy OS X and Office X so it seems a waste (NZ$800).

If I install OS X & 9 on the same partition, which one should I install first? Is there anything I should know about Office v.10 - is it a buggy piece of crap? I just want to thrown OS X away and go back to my tried and trusted 9.2.2. Please help me. Zeal :( :confused:
Click to expand...

I've had OS X and OS 9 co-exisiting on the same partition flawlessly, and on different partitions flawlessly, and on different drives flawlessly. I also use Office X every day, and have VERY little trouble with it other than that damn paperclip trying to help me type a damn word every now and then. He's useful for some stuff, downright annoying for other stuff.

My recommendation -- start from complete scratch. Boot from your OS 9 CD and use Apple Disk Utility to reformat your hard drive, with one single partition, using the "Zero blocks" options. In other words, do the LONG format, and get rid of the partitions. Format as HFS+. Install OS 9, update to OS 9.2.2 and keep running Software Update until there's no more updates to install. Then, boot from the OS X CD and install OS X on the same partition. Once it's installed, do the Software Update thing in OS X until there are no more updates to install. You may need to do this even after Software Update tells you there's nothing else and makes you restart. Do it again. Get up to OS X 10.1.2 and do it one more time for good measure. Then, install Office X the recommended way -- copying the folder from the CD to your Applications folder in OS X, from OS X (don't do this from OS 9). Run Office X (Word, Excel, whatever) and see if your problems persist.

If you're using a Beta version of Office, then yes, it will crash on you constantly. If you bought Office, then you're good to go. It's not a Beta.

Come back and tell us how it goes.
 
Originally posted by ElDiabloConCaca


My recommendation -- start from complete scratch. Boot from your OS 9 CD and use Apple Disk Utility to reformat your hard drive, with one single partition, using the "Zero blocks" options. In other words, do the LONG format, and get rid of the partitions. Format as HFS+. Install OS 9, update to OS 9.2.2 and keep running Software Update until there's no more updates to install. Then, boot from the OS X CD and install OS X on the same partition. Once it's installed, do the Software Update thing in OS X until there are no more updates to install. You may need to do this even after Software Update tells you there's nothing else and makes you restart. Do it again. Get up to OS X 10.1.2 and do it one more time for good measure. Then, install Office X the recommended way -- copying the folder from the CD to your Applications folder in OS X, from OS X (don't do this from OS 9). Run Office X (Word, Excel, whatever) and see if your problems persist.
Click to expand...

Hmmmm?.....!!!

I just said that!!!
 
I know! I thought I was the first to reply to the message, and it took me a minute or two to put mine together, and you must have replied while I was typing...
 
Originally posted by ElDiabloConCaca


Well, since you're using ONE DISK, then the option thingy at startup won't work. That allows you to choose which DISK to start up from, not which partition to start up from.
Click to expand...

Are you sure about that? I'm pretty certain that option at startup does work if you have your OSs on separate partitions. Just not if you have more than one system folder on the same partition.
 
Originally posted by ElDiabloConCaca

What kind of computer do you have? How much RAM? What size hard drive?
Click to expand...

Well, as far as I can tell from the FIRST LINE of his post he's using a Pismo (PowerBook G3) with 384MB RAM and a 6GB HD. ;)

Option key at startup will let you select which Volume to startup from (CD, HD, partition etc…) on Macs with the New World ROM (Summer 2000, I believe).
Not aware of the "9" key trick, but Apple Knowledge Base Article 106696 explains how to use the "X" key at startup to boot X.
 
Sorry, I was in a horrible mood when I replied to that post -- I apologize! Guess it's better to bite one's tongue when in that state of mind rather than spewing whatever seems to come out of one's mouth and looking like a fool...

Isn't there a certain PowerBook that OS X has a little difficulty on? Er, I think I heard that there's an early PowerBook G3 that is unsupported by Apple with OS X... could the Pismo be it?
 
To sum up - the Option key startup trick won't work for your setup. If installing OS 9 and X on one partition, do OS 9 first.
Stay away from Norton Utilities at this point - more often than not, it will cause more trouble than it fixes. I use it only for limited maintenance tasks.
If I were you, I'd do 2 partitions. My iMac originally had a 6-Gig HD (replaced it with a 40-Gig), and I used 2 partitions on it.
Office v.X is slightly buggy, but on the whole it works pretty well for me.
You can go back to 9.2.2 only, if you prefer. But as a Mac user since OS 7.x, I purely love OS X!
 
In an attempt to inspire the initiator of this post to stick with OS 10.x.x, I am a user of a firewire powerbook with 192MB RAM and 6GB hard disk. I have an external firewire drive but only plug it in when I need the space for video etc.

I can't beleive the problems that you are having. While I have installed every version of X since beta, and have sometimes been frustrated by the functionality gap between teh various versions and the mature OS 9.x operating system, I have never been dissapointed with the stability.

I can only hope that the low level format works because there must be something wrong in the works.

A currently run OS 9.2.1 with 10.1. Have pretty much given up on updating 9 as the updates don't give me anything, and run all my apps on X and have the occasional application crash but this is generally with beta video enconders, or code that has been ported from linux by some keen developer.

Anyway - Keep the faith. Personally I am looking forward to OS 10.2 though as I hope that it will complete the OS with regard to power management profiles for mobile users and a few other trinkets.
 
Originally posted by ElDiabloConCaca
Sorry, I was in a horrible mood when I replied to that post -- I apologize! Guess it's better to bite one's tongue when in that state of mind rather than spewing whatever seems to come out of one's mouth and looking like a fool...

Isn't there a certain PowerBook that OS X has a little difficulty on? Er, I think I heard that there's an early PowerBook G3 that is unsupported by Apple with OS X... could the Pismo be it?
Click to expand...

1) Dude, I was just picking on ya (hence the winkies). No hard feelings?
2) I believe it's the PowerBook G3 Series (Wall Street) that is not supported, or maybe the original Macintosh PowerBook G3 (Kanga) (which was basically the 3400 with a G3 proc). The Pismo was the last of the PowerBook G3 Series.
 
No hard feelings at all -- I just re-read my post and realized it may have been a bit harsh!

...and you jogged my memory about which Powerbook wasn't supported... has anyone heard anything concerning THAT model of the Powerbook and people trying to sue Apple over it? I know some early G3-owners (like the original iMac and the beige G3 boxes) who are trying to put together a class-action against Apple for failing to support some equipment (graphics cards) in their systems... anything for owners of the Wallstreet Powerbook owners?
 
You are chasing your tail if you are trying to use Startup Manager to change your startup system if you have Mac OS X and Mac OS on the same volume. It can't be done.

You can use either of your respective install CD's (X or 9) or use Startup Disk contained in System Preferences to change the startup system.

Refer to http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106698

As a side issue to comments about supported powerbooks it is only the orginal PowerBook that is not supported in OXS X by Apple

Refer: http://www.apple.com/macosx/upgrade/requirements.html

From the symtoms you describe, until you erase your disk, you are going to have potential problems. If you are going to be using Nortons Utils in this endeavour its Wipe info you should be using.....and use only Version 6 preferably Version 6.03 as versions earlier that 6.0 are OS X unaware.

If you are resident in Auckland I would be happy to assist you in setting up your powerbook.
 
Don't lose all hope zeal...I sympathize with the problems you are having...I just recently got OS X working on my Powerbook G3 (Firewire) after having some kernel panic problems...keep plugging away, because the sad truth is that you are gonna HAVE to learn OS X sooner or later. OS 9 is being phased out (albeit very slowly) and OS X is the future of the mac (command line and all...ugh) whether we like it or not.

I'd follow the suggestions that everyone has posted...also, what worked for me to fix my PB was to boot up under my OS 9 CD and then run disk first aid. If you have any disk problems this should clear it all up and doesn't require command line like the fsck -y solution. Hope that helps...
 
Zeal, i can relate to your feelings of frustration having started with a 512kE as well. This new os is something different on several levels. Take a few deep breathes, don't overdo the coffee and hang in there. With the help of many fine people onthis site i have learned to make osx work for me 99% of the time. i am normally the one who is responsible for that other 1% at this point. and i just made the switch back in october of last year.
I think your biggest problem is your lack of HD. and if you don't want to add a good firewire drive then you might be best advised to stick with os 9 for now. While osx has wonderul memory management, it requires lots of swap space. you need to keep a gig open most of the time to allow it to do it's thing. you might notice i have a 10gb internal and a couple of whopper externals. I am constantly moving stuff off the internal to keep my system running cleanly.
and why did you waste all that good money on office? try your Appleworks that came free. It reads and writes to word and excell. you are not going to lose much without that big elephant sitting on your hd.

and if you just want to blow off steam and get to know some of the folks around here who can help you, feel free to go to the all thoughts non technical forum and check out Herve's Bar & Grill. Your first round is my treat:)
 
Okay, I've cooled down now. Thanks heaps for your support. Until I saw JJJ's post I thought I might have been the only person running Mac OS X in New Zealand.

Just to clarify a couple of things before I move on:
1. I did do a low level format last time I formatted my hard drive (10 days ago). It did take hours. Up until I played with Norton Disk Editor+ nothing I did could even format the hard drive because of that Extents File thingy problem.

2. Just one more clarification from you all please (don't rush the door at the same time): my hard drive has always been in one partition. Am I correct in understanding that, with both X & 9 both installed on this hard drive, that I can't use the Option key at startup to switch between one or the other? If that is the case then will I always have to use my external FW HD (that also has 9 & X installed on separate partitions!) or the OS 9 Install CD to startup with in order to change the startup OS if OS X crashes like it has been?

3. I do not have Norton Utilities installed on my PB hard drive. I do have it installed on my OS 9 partition on my external firewire hard drive though (version 6.0.3). Is it safe to allow Norton Filesaver to work while running in OS 9 on my external HD Or should I disable it? Should I allow Norton Filesaver to do it's business on my Powerbook (it looks like it saves a backup of the directory file)? Should I delete the invisible files that Filesaver saves and stop it from saving the directory thingy?

4. I've booted into my external OS 9 and have run Norton Disk Doctor today and other than a few minor modification dates and bundle bit thingies it said my Powerbook hard drive was fine. I then booted basck into OS X on my PB hard drive - wait for it - and everything appears to be fine (for now - cos that's what it did last time before it shitted itself). I even ran my PB OS 9 and it worked well.

5. Can someone please tell me what the probable cause of the system messages I kept receiving were (this was only when I started up under OS 9 on my PB) (see my initial post above)?

6. I only have 680MB of free hard drive space. Ed S: could that be the cause of all my problems? If so, UT, Falcon 4, Rainbow 6 and other stuff is going out the door right now! And I bought Office (version 98 - then upgraded twice to Office v.X) because my work uses it and I take home stuff cos I've got a 21inch screen at home and am more productive on it that sitting at work doing overtime. And (only one more 'and') that little 512K was just beautiful. Sits beside my Classic and my Perfroma 5200CD. Cute!

I think I'm turning back towards X. I don't want to let go of your hand yet though. I regard myself as a fairly handy Mac user (I tinker continuously) but this whole X thing has thrown me. :( :confused:

[JJJ - email me: zealm@hotmail.com - yes I am in Auckland]
 
1. i would say that only 680 mb is the reason you can't save anything and are getting "not enough" messages. move those games and stuff over to the firewire drive. one thing you might notice is how much faster and smoother your FW drive works in osx as compared to 9. there are some things that os 9 seems to be zippier doing, but firewire transactions are not one of them. in osx you can pretty much treat that FW drive just like it was internal. It is plenty quick to do what ever you want. I even burn cd's off my 5400rpm.

also keep in mind that os 9 uses virtual memory and osx doesn't so when you switch back to 9 after loading up the hd in osx, a LOT of space disappears (well, depends on what you have VM set for i guess)

2. try the x and 9 keys to choose your startup system. this seems to work on most macs. it is even easier than having the option screen appear.

3. i have sworn off Norton for a variety of reasons, but there should be no problems running a disk repair program from any drive. I keep a copy of each of mine on each hd and just swap boot systems thru the system prefs in osx or the CP's in 9. having a minimal system folder for this helps keep boot time down and less annoying. Booting from discs cantake forever. IMHO, the damn filesaver isn't worth all the troubles it causes in either system.

4. yea, i kinda miss having my 512kE. I made the mistake of giving in to GF pressure and giving it away before i moved to CA. now i think it would be fun to tinker with. but then again, i don't miss the 'gray screen' days.:p
 
Who would have thought that having enough space to drown a CD in would end up being not enough in 2002. Oh well, consider those games gone. And it's been surprisingly stable since I threw them all out. As for OS9, I've got 384 MB Ram so have never bothered with VM - I have it switched off.

Now, all I really need now is a printer driver for my Epson Stylus Photo EX and then I'll be full choke OSX. Know anywhere I could find a copy? Doesnm't appear to be on Epson's driver pages or in PrintCentre. OSX works beautifully with the Lexmark Optra S laser printer at work. Much faster than under OS 9 to print, esepcially brining up the PageSetup and Print dialog boxes. And connecting through AppleTalk is such a breeze. Although I can't work out whether or not I can be connected to the net via PPP *AND* also hook up via Appletalk to the Laser printer at the same time. Any ideas?

Regards, Zeal :D

(by the way, I'm a little happier now and am turning away from the dark side towards the illustrious glow of X again)
 
I think this is limited to users of machines that were touted as being able to run OS X... and all of the relevant machines CAN run OS X, it's ust that for example there's no hardware acceleration for OpenGL in certain ATI cards that the earlier Macs used (original iMacs, Powerbooks, etc.)

The original Powerbook G3 was never touted as being able to run OS X, so I don't think any of those G3 owners are in on the class action -- if they are, they ain't going to get anywhere!

(Not that I think the class action is going to work anyway... and I have a rev B iMac!)
 
you've checked the latest bunch of print drivers in software update? Epson plugged a lot of holes recently.

and let's not go quite so far as to call os 9 the "dark side". gray maybe.;)

seriously, being able to run classic is one of the great things about osx. you don't have to give up any apps to move forward so the withdrawal is gradual. i've reached the point where i don't launch it at startup anymore, just let it start when i do need it - maybe every 3-4 days or more at this point.:)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top