Good morning Baghdad! <-----

PowermacG4_450

PowermacG4_450

OS X Jaguar
todays weather in baghdad?

2,000 degrees! lol. ;)

get it?

Ok, bad joke mabe? Get over it!

God bless america and our troops! Pray for them.... their defending OUR asses after all! OUR freedom!
 
I find it tasteless that people can make jokes about a war that will kill many innocent people, and leave many more homeless and starving.

Iraq's population is more than 50% children under 12 (due to the number of adults killed in the previous conflict, over 200,000) who weren't even born when last the American's bombed their country. They have been suffering under UN imposed sanctions and an oppressive regime for 12 years.

Saddam is a villain, and he has rorted the oil-for-food scheme to obtain weapons. But if you think this will be a clean, efficient war to change the regime and will not result in civilian casualties, you're fooling yourself. If you think US troops will not use terror and fear to impose their power on Iraq, then you're putting a little too much faith in your government.

To make jokes about it only shows how cheaply you value the lives of the people there, and that is why these people hate us. They hate us because we would sacrifice thousands of them in the name of security.
 
Let the body bags' dance begin !

Thanks for feeding the terrorists, guys. I can't even understand how this thread has not been censored for open racism. Anyway, here's the Iraqi version of your posts. Check it, it's great fun:

Today's height of Twin Towers ?
2 feet ! LOL. Get it ? Bad joke, maybe. Get over it !

Allah bless Iraq and those crazy Al Qaeda terrorists ! Pray for them... they're defending OUR asses after all! OUR freedom!

Bismillah brothers !

Disclaimer: I don't think a word of this italics stuff. That was just a way to show how patriotism is stupid and revertable.
 
Watch what you say guys...

This is an international board - so remember (as Toast points out) that not everyone here is from the USA. Don't go to racistic jokes or arguments.
Even the "God bless America" when you have "Bomb Iraq!" on the same post is that .. Even if most of us here are in or from the US, there are Mac users (and other human beings) that live in the Middle East too.

God / Higher however you want to call it bless the World.
 
symphonix was sane enough to say:
I find it tasteless that people can make jokes about a war that will kill many innocent people, and leave many more homeless and starving.

Iraq's population is more than 50% children under 12 (due to the number of adults killed in the previous conflict, over 200,000) who weren't even born when last the American's bombed their country. They have been suffering under UN imposed sanctions and an oppressive regime for 12 years.

Saddam is a villain, and he has rorted the oil-for-food scheme to obtain weapons. But if you think this will be a clean, efficient war to change the regime and will not result in civilian casualties, you're fooling yourself. If you think US troops will not use terror and fear to impose their power on Iraq, then you're putting a little too much faith in your government.

To make jokes about it only shows how cheaply you value the lives of the people there, and that is why these people hate us. They hate us because we would sacrifice thousands of them in the name of security.
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ah, the voice of reason. thank you. amen to that. :)
 
Originally posted by edX
at what point do you plan to join the fighting artie? :confused:
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probably the same time as all the other "heroes" like bush, powell, rumsfeld etc.: never.
why fight when you can send in the cannon fodder?
 
God, Powermac, is this really what you think?
Let me tell you something in (how I think) your way of understanding things:
USA will raise the anger of many nations! Even germany and lot of other european nations. And US is far too weak to war against everyone that is "thinking different". You think to know what is good and bad and to have the power AND the right to judge.
Well, I doubt this...
Now to my own point of view:
I think this whole thing became a game of image. Saddam won't give up cause he doesn't want to show weakness and same to the US trying to show all the world how powerful they are and that they do whatever they feel like.
Where did their so strongly claimed democracy go?
Everything got so childish, that my solution to all this got childish too: let's just send Bush and Saddam to a lonely island and let them talk, war or do whatever they want. Just leave those innocent ppl. They have to pay the price for this stupid war...
 
I think this whole thing became a game of image. Saddam won't give up cause he doesn't want to show weakness and same to the US ...
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An interesting point, Zammy. The warmongers have pushed a stance that forces Saddam to stand his ground in order to save his pride.

Compare the current situation to the Cuban Missile Crisis, in which America was potentially threatened by weapons of mass destruction. JFK was able to demand the removal of those weapons without causing insult to the Cubans, the Russians or their allies. He "requested" their removal publicly, asking the Russians to remove the weapons in the interests of peace and friendship. The Russians were able to comply without appearing weak, and thus war was averted. In fact, both sides were able to walk away from that crisis a little prouder, and a little better. The fear in those times was as real as the fear today, the threat was even more real (after all, the missiles Saddam has been told to destroy have a range of only 170km, while in the Cuban crisis the missiles were within firing range of most of the US).

In this case, it is clear that the US has not offerred Saddam a way to exit gracefully without losing face. They don't want or expect compliance from Iraq. They want war.
 
But why do the US want that war so much? To try out their great new bombs? To show off infront all other nations how powerful they are? These are the only point that would make me agree: war is the only solution.
Everything else... well, no need to say a word more!
 
The only way to avoid war is if the French show Iraq how to surrender. After all, they are really good at it.
 
Do we have any members here that are Prior service members or have actually spent time in the middle east? Just curious to know, everyone seems to have opinions and would like to know if all is just based on what one reads in the media... Or do some speak from experience and influence of actually travelling to the middle east? ie ... being there, meeting the people, military personel - maybe having a drink with someone from there.. the good and the bad...
 
Originally posted by AppMan
The only way to avoid war is if the French show Iraq how to surrender. After all, they are really good at it.
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I have much been puzzled by the anti-french mentality that seems to have infected the US in recent weeks. True in recent history the French have lost a few battles. However, if I recall my history correctly (something most americans seem incapable of) the French come out about even.

France conquered England - causing about 300 years of French to be the official language of England, only to be changed thanks to the Black Plague.

France conquered most of Europe...ever hear of Napolean? His only downfall was trying to take on the Russians during winter. Something no one but the Russians has ever successfully done.

France sold us a crap load of land. Ever hear of the Louisiana purchase? Without that, we would have had to fight another war with France and frankly we would have gotten our butts kicked.

Also, France kinda saved our @$$es during this little thing called the American Revolution. So, if you enjoy drinking coffee rather than Tea...you have the French to thank.


I'm very sorry Toast. I will never understand how a nation that prides itself on Freedom of Speach can get so peaved off to resort to slander and libel when someone dares to disagree with them.
 
Originally posted by PowermacG4_450
todays weather in baghdad?

2,000 degrees! lol. ;)

get it?

Ok, bad joke mabe? Get over it!

God bless america and our troops! Pray for them.... their defending OUR asses after all! OUR freedom!
Click to expand...
Originally posted by symphonix
I can't even understand how this thread has not been censored for open racism.
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I can't understand how you claim there is racism in the first place! :confused:
 
And before that they had charlesmagne, or Charles the great, that made himself emperor of europe in in the year 800-something (or was it 700?).
but enough about that...

What bugs me about this war is that USA isnt threatened by Iraq. And the stupid reason that USA only wants to protect turkey or whatever doesnt hold up. Let the UN decide about that. I dont think anybody thinks the UN would stand idle if Iraq actually started to attack anyone. But they dont attack anyone.
And sure, they are not that fond of USA and they have their reason. But until they do something about it (in a violent way), they dont deserve to be bombed.
Most european countries have faced what they did during world war 2 (sweden for instance let the germans travel through the country to attack Norway and we also supported them with material, nothing i am proud of), it would be interesting if there ever could be an official "hey, we have been wrong but now we have learned from our misstakes" from the government of USA. but nooooo.
 
AppMan: The only way to avoid war is if the French show Iraq how to surrender. After all, they are really good at it.

AppMan, according to your avatar caption, you are an infinite idiot. I do not think you are. I think you are just limited. Limited in terms of knowledge. In terms of historical knowledge. I would like to make you count how many times your own country did surrender in only 5 centuries of history. My favorite one is Vietnam and body bags. Oh no, I like the Gulf War syndrome too.

I think you are acting very American: counting the victories and defeats of such or such Nation, that is telling of your general behaviour. "Ah ha ! My nation is richer than yours ! And you lost more battles ! Yeah !" That kind of stuff, after all, is very American. Your President is acting a bit the same: showing off his strength, his scorn for international relatiosn and insitutions. His victory over Iraq, that wil be glorious, am I right ? Bravo in advance.

But Bush forgot one thing: there is no merit in bombing a country. There is no pride, no proudness to feel when you drop shells. Bombs, just as napalm if you see what I mean, are an easy way to get rid of the so-called 'scums of this Earth'.

But talking, that's harder. Yes ! It is. Because you must be smart. You must be smart and convincing. You must be legitimate, supported by your people, first, and by others in the world, second. You must be diplomatic, attentive. And on top of that, you must compromise, find a consensus, be tolerant towards others. You must be witty and clairvoyant, to understand why such or such people are oppressed, to understand why such or such country has universal free suffrage and why some others are still venerating theocrats.

George W. Bush is none of those last proposals. And that is why he has chosen the only choice offered to his limited mind: go to war. Send bombs. Send fighters (oh, not too many, watch out for the body bags !). This, he knows how to do. Just as his dad did. Just as Saddam did. Finally, he's not so much different from Saddam; he's similarly stubborn, just in some other way. Saddam refuses to go, George refuses not to bomb. And why ? Because they don't know how to act differently from this. Because they are limited people.

If some way, you are limited too, AppMan. As you have nothing more intelligent to oppopse me, you just write your short flame: "French, you're historical losers, whereas we're the winners. Shut the f*ck up."

But you see, I'm not impressed. Or maybe I am. I am, actually, surprised to see how anti-French feelings can be deeply rooted in someone with such limited cerebral cavities.

I may be flaming you here. So I will rectify my own writings: AppMan, I still don't believe you are this 'infinite idiot' you revendicate to be. I'm just waiting for some other cavities of your brain to get activated. I am waiting for your arguments.

Make my day :)

Usual Toast Disclaimer (UTD): mods, if something is wrong with this post, tell me (AIM: brat270783, mail, or PM), and I'll show wise enough to reformulate it properly.
 
Gnomo: I'm very sorry Toast. I will never understand how a nation [USA] that prides itself on Freedom of Speach can get so peaved off to resort to slander and libel when someone dares to disagree with them.

Well, this argument can be turned upside down. The USA prided freedom of speech in the first place because their Revolution found inspiration in the French intellectual tendencies of that time.

The USA may be priding itself on freedom of speech, my own country often prides itself on Human Rights. Oui, we are the nation of Human Rights, bien sûr ! But have we always been their best representative ? Obviously not.

This debate about Iraq can be sickening. There is an obvious cleavage between pro and anti war supporters. But, as France is majoritarely against the war, some people are confusing this cleavage with a national one. And therefore, as these people support war and know that their hymn is not The Marseillaise, therefore these people are turning the debate to open racism.

Yes, racism. Between France and America. Even though those two countries share a lot, incl. color of skin, I'll call it racism, based on the definition of racism which says racism is visceral hatred with no intelligible reason.

I would like to precise to the American people here who are confusing pro-/anti-war debate and French/American debate (which is not a debate BTW) that:
- Many Americans do not support the War.
- Some French do support the War.
- Most Europe thinks like France at the moment.

What I conclude of those points is that people who show unable to post anything here except references to French and American history in such a way that they want to prove are :

- racists. hating the French so much is like hating hating Jews or Arabs.

- narrow-minded. They really should insult all Europe (at least, actual Europe) for what Europe thinks of this war. But maybe they don't know Europe well enough. Maybe they don't know France is part of Europe. Never mind :D.

- To end, these people just convince me a bit more everyday that reason is on the side of the people opposed to this war. And on this side, you will find many Americans. You will find left wing, right wing, religious or not, old or not, rich or not - people.

The criteria that divides pro and anti-war people is not nationality. Is not age, sex, diploma or any classical sociodemographical variable. The criterii that divides both camps are much more sharp, complex and intricate ones.

I think that fear, anxiety, paranoid tendencies, mental fragility and weakness are some of the criterii that I have in mind. I am ready to discuss that. If those anti-French people let me talk :).

Usual Toast Disclaimer (UTD): mods, if something is wrong with this post, tell me (AIM: brat270783, mail, or PM), and I'll show wise enough to reformulate it properly.
 
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