How can Apple justify their prices when they have fallen to far behind?!

AG3

Registered
Guys I am a mac head, have always been, but lets face the facts AMD kicks any g4's ass in 3D games, 3D applications, Photoshop, and now Digital editing.
I need a new computer but everyone who does DV or 3D modelling says if you want to get serious buy an AMD system...
WTF, since when did apple become second best to graphics? They never took second place, but now they are.

Essential applications like Photoshop are becoming more pc-like and becoming faster on windows boxes.
There is nothing a mac is purely faster at over an AMD system, ohh maybe one or two photoshop filters.

How can Apple justify their huge prices for last years hardware?

Who here feels the same way?:mad:
 

dlookus

Disgruntled user
Quit yer whining.

Apple has never really been a 3D powerhouse. As for DV I think that's rediculous.

I think if you reduce the difference between PCs and Macs down to pure speed. You are missing the point.
 

ksuther

Registered
My thoughts exacly nkuvu :)

AG3, these forums have been through enough of this already. I'm sure that this thread will explode into one with hundreds of replys and start a flame war. Many people will say that you are right, most won't.

Photoshop never did look as good in Windows as it does on a Mac. Macs have Lightwave and Maya for 3D, which are extremely high quality. Final Cut Pro doesn't even exist on the PC, and is a great photo app.

As for huge prices, many people think it is worth it to pay an extra few hundred dollars to have a system that they LIKE to work with, not just cope with.

*sits back and watches the replies flood in*
 

ulrik

Registered
Some poeple buy a BMW 7series, others buy a cheaper Porsche 911 Carrera. Both tend to travel at the same average speed.

Nuff said...
 

AJaX

Registered
Last time I checked, you can't run OS X on an AMD system. I think apple's prices are not bad at all. I mean look at the latest review between a Sony Vaio and an Apple iMac:

Vaio: $3400
iMac: $1800

One runs a REAL Operating System, the other runs a joke. WinXP is not better for content creation, I'm sorry, but the Mac OS will always appeal to designers/content creators/movie editors more. I don't understand where you are getting this "second best" stuff. Again, Final Cut, Cinema Tools, iMovie, iDVD, iPhoto, iTunes, show me these applications on WinXP??....People do not get what justifies the price until they have used the machine, and all of the wonderful applications with it. Oh yeah, and do you get a micro-fiber polishing cloth with your AMD system? That's what i thought :D
 

dricci

Registered
I was going to write a reply but I figured it wasn't worth my time.

Now back to WWDC rumor hunting!
 

phatsharpie

Futuristic Robotic Cat
Okay, speaking from personal experience... I was in the market for a new laptop, and I did price comparison between all the PC and Mac models on the market, and guess what?! The Apple laptops are actually quite a bargain!

Compare the IBM T series for example - it uses Ti composite covers, its travel weight is similar to the TiBook's (IBM is a bit heavier), it's graphic subsystem isn't quite as good (Savage IX with 16MB of RAM) unless you pay more for the Radeon option in the T-30's. The default screen resolution is lower than the standard on the TiBook. And the IBM starts pretty much at $3,000.00, and if you add the options to make it more in line with a TiBook, it shoots up to $3,500.00!

The same thing is true for the Toshiba Tecra - starts at $3,000.00, and at least $3,500.00 with options. Granted, these are not cheap-o PC laptops from BestBuy, but the TiBook really is in another league than those. If you compare the construction of the iBook to the PC laptops in the same price range and you'll be amazed at how crappy the clones' machines are.

Keep in the mind that up till OS X, I was a diehard PC user, and that I was a big AMD advocate. I think the AMD chips are nice, but the G4 is not bad chip at all! I don't know why people complain about the G4, look at the MIPS processors that powers SGI machines, they barely hit 1GHz, yet no one complains. The same for the SPARC processors in the Sun workstations.

If you want to do DV, the Macs are really the only way to go. Final Cut Pro is taking the industry by storm, and now Shake is dropping support for Windows. Also, have you ever tried editing on a PC? I have, and it's a nightmare. The PC filesystem really isn't optimized for such task. Just look around on DV newsgroups.
 

AG3

Registered
Guys I dont hate macs, I love them, thing is I want to buy a new one but by looking at what they come with and what they cost, lead me to this thread...

I LOVE MACS, but I complain in order for someone at apple to read this and think and hear what we know...
 

ksuther

Registered
Slightly off-topic, but G4's are actually about a hundred bucks cheaper than P4's when bought in bulk because of their smaller size, or so I've hear.
 

fryke

Moderator
Staff member
Mod
Apple will never compare their prices for a PowerMacintosh G4 system with a homebrew chimera of an AMD box, because that'd be like Rolex making their watches as affordable as a Swatch. Of course you can see the time on a Swatch, but the difference is something else, right?

Compare Apple's prices to Sony, Compaq, Dell, although Dell is a discounter where Apple has style.

If you're a Mac fan, buy the cheapest AMD box you can get. You can use it to render 3D stuff and the like. They *have* their uses, you know. And buy a real machine next to it. A PowerBook, for example. Or a G4. You can use the same display for both computers, as the AMD doesn't really need one while it's rendering for a few hours, right?

If you need a fast, cheap rendering box, self-made AMD boxes are great, although the operating system that might be needed for running the software you want, certainly sucks. If you want a creativity/productivity tool that also has style, buy a Macintosh.

Last time I checked, the TiBook was *still* the only computer I would buy at the moment. And if I didn't have the money, I'd buy an iBook. Style matters.
 

phatsharpie

Futuristic Robotic Cat
Originally posted by ksuther
Slightly off-topic, but G4's are actually about a hundred bucks cheaper than P4's when bought in bulk because of their smaller size, or so I've hear.

That is true, but I think the purchasing volume for discounts are different. Where the Intel/AMD chips are quoted in quantities of 1,000 units, the PPC chips are in 10,000 units.
 

Ronnie Fitz

Registered
I feel the same way!
not all of us can afford new macs!
hell os x is getting more like winblows every day!!!!!
Heck Who needs a swap file???
windows has had one for years!!
And you can evan turn it off! you cant in x.
see what i mean?
Ya Apple is getting way behind and charging to much
for there computers!!!
i wish apple would get there stuff together!!!!
I am an Apple Nut!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
but this is to much
Please dont Flame me
it is just the way i feel and see it
 

ksuther

Registered
That last post seemed like a poem...

You obviously show your lack of knowledge of OS X and UNIX by slamming swap files. Swap files are built in virtual memory, so that when you run out of real RAM you can still run more applications, unlike OS 9. These files get shuffled around as needed, and are partly what make OS X a "good thing". If you turn off swap files, you'll see that your computer begins to move the pace of a slug, and you'd be even more mad with the performance of your system.

As for charging too much for a system, that has been covered pretty well in previous posts. Take a look around, you'll see that many PC's are actually about the same price of Mac.

Next time it would be nice if you could also proof read your post, or get the spelling and grammar right the first time, it's a real pain to try to decipher posts like yours.

*sigh*
 

phatsharpie

Futuristic Robotic Cat
Originally posted by Ronnie Fitz
I feel the same way!
not all of us can afford new macs!
hell os x is getting more like winblows every day!!!!!
Heck Who needs a swap file???
windows has had one for years!!
And you can evan turn it off! you cant in x.
see what i mean?
Ya Apple is getting way behind and charging to much
for there computers!!!
i wish apple would get there stuff together!!!!
I am an Apple Nut!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
but this is to much
Please dont Flame me
it is just the way i feel and see it

Are you complaining that OS X includes a much better virtual memory management scheme than OS 9? What are you talking about? OS 9's memory management was a joke! With OS X you don't even have to worry about memory allocation, it's completely transparent. And if I remember correctly, you can indeed turn virtual memory off (it's in one of the configuration files), but that would be a big no no, since it can cause all kinds of havoc.

How is Apple being way behind? Just because it's not using AMD/Intel chips it's suddenly way behind? Heck, UltraSPARC chips and MIPS chips used in Sun and SGI boxes are barely hitting 1GHz and that's at the highend of their product line, yet no one is screaming that those boxes are underperfomers. So what are these complaint directed at specifically?
 

Valrus

Now With Even More Dumb!
Originally posted by Ronnie Fitz

I am an Apple Nut!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
but this is to much
Please dont Flame me
it is just the way i feel and see it

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Do your research and check your grammar. Each exclamation point beyond the first makes me 1/4 as likely to listen to a word you say, if indeed you had anything interesting, new or valuable to say in the first place. Expressing unpopular opinions is fine. Doing it in an irritating and unintelligent way makes you flamebait.

Read this.

-the valrus, getting tired of this crap
 

fryke

Moderator
Staff member
Mod
All the whining I heard in the last year or so... About Mac OS X not being what users wanted, about the PowerPC lagging behind Intel or AMD megahertz-wise... It made me think. I tend to show people where they're wrong and to show them solutions for their problems where they're right. Maybe I should just stop doing that. I should start anew talking like the following paragraph.

Don't like what Apple does? Buy a Whinetel system and start using a different forum to whine about Windows or Linux. Now let *us* get back to fun & work.

But, of course, half of the fun to be a member of a forum community are the flame wars, right? Maybe I should add more fuel to the fire... Let's try with yet another version of me that is not the true me...

Yeah, Apple's machines are too expensive, really. I mean, you can get an AMD Dual 1 GHz almost for free if you care to look for it. And the OS doesn't even have decent theming. Plus Windows had multithreading and preemptive multitasking for years, now!! Even Windows 95 had that, if I recall correctly. So what's the fuss about Mac OS X? I liked Mac OS 9 better, anyway. And I hate the Dock. And please don't flame me, this is just how I feel, I don't want answers to my posts, this is why I'm telling you all what I think on a forum.
 
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