I returned Tiger to Apple today

D

davevi

Registered
After unfixable location issues with wireless network, PDF rendering problems, and odd behavior in Microsoft products (does a beach-ball pause have to happen every time I do something in Office 2004? and how the HECK did Virtual PC miss being compatible with 10.4? How is that even possible?) Apple has agreed to take back my 10.4 purchase for a full refund.

You can too. You have to contact tech support first, give it the college try, and use your case number to request your refund with Customer Support (I bought my copy direct from Apple).

If you have an unfixable problem the legal agreement you "Agree" to allows you to return the software for a refund.

I'll likely pick it up again after the 2nd or 3rd patch/update.
 
Well, not sure about the wireless issues (haven't had them myself, but I don't use wireless in two locations anymore), or the PDF rendering problems... but the Microsoft incompatibilities are not entirely the responsibility of Apple, /especially/ VPC.

VPC does this thing where it installs extensions into the OS when it gets installed. These extensions are easy to break in an OS upgrade if MS' Mac BU isn't working on the fix ASAP. Quite simply, emulating one system on another is tricky business, since you are operating at all sorts of levels doing things that can break at any time just to get it usable.

Sorry to hear about the Office 2004 issues though, especially since I normally use Office (student rate, needed it before Pages was announced in January).

I do have one question for you though: If you are just gonna buy it again once the issues are resolved (and with the MS software, MS is gonna have to fix it, not Apple), beyond being able to earn a few extra quarters of interest on the money being in your bank account instead of Apple's, what purpose does returning the software in this case solve? Mostly just curious as to your thinking on the subject.
 
The Microsoft issues are pretty well known. VPC's virtual switching won't run in Tiger and I've had VPC kernel panic a Dual 2.5GHz G5, as well as bring its boot time to a screeching halt for multiple minutes.

Office, well, I use Entourage and notice that it'll flake out about 5 times a day, on a bad day, which is twice this week. I thought this might be an issue with the amount of mail I have, which scales into the many thousands.

Supposedly, the MacBU is working with Apple directly to fix these issues. I did, however, read that VPC was slated to be fixed in 3-4 months, so you may be in for the long haul, after how many times that product was delayed to begin with.
 
ya, what is the reasoning of returning the product to apple if u r going to buy it again? I suppose there is a principle issue, but u aren't teaching apple lessons by returing their product. this is a drop in the bucket compared to the oodles of work they have cut out for them in the coming months. I'm not saying it was a bad idea, by no means. The consumer has rights, and they should be exercised from time to time. But with this new OS, it makes a severe departure from all other versions thus far, so it cannot be expected to run with every piece of software out there, least of all, Microsoft products- not right off the bat anyway. If apple has taught us loyalists anything, is that patience is truly a virtue.

In "Be Cool", Chilly Palmer said it best: "If you're important enough, they will wait for you".
 
My only qualm would be that Microsoft could very easily afford the $500 to get the Tiger Dev. pack from Apple during Beta, to be able to properly identify issues with their product and the new OS. Sure, you don't want to code against alpha builds where major changes are still going to take place, but the later builds would have given the MacBU a heads up on the changes that would alter their products' ability to properly run in the Tiger environments.
 
I am also returning my copy to Apple. I know I will eventually buy it again, but I want to deliver the message to Apple that this is UNACCEPTABLE!

As far as it not running with "every peice of software out there" I don't expect it to without some updates, but my issues are with the iApps themselves. After having problems with the upgrade option, I formatted my HD and did a clean install and without installing any additional software my iApps crash constantly. I've tried reinstalling a couple of times and even had the installer crash on me while running from the DVD.

This product was not ready for consumer distribution and Apple decided to send it out anyways.

I know I will need it eventually, but guess what, I've decided to return it anyways!
 
Well, looking to the long term, this sort of thing should get to be a little more rare with future updates. Apple has apparently told developers that the API will not be going through rapid change in the future after Tiger, now that they feel the API has matured to the point where things won't be deprecated left and right. They also revamped sections of how drivers work in Tiger (hence why VPC doesn't work) to provide API stability there too.

Hopefully, this will be the /last/ OS update in the MacOS X series with this many problems of broken apps. (Although to be fair, a lot of people have been saying the big changes are under the hood, which is where apps get broken!)

Although on the topic of 'not ready for consumer distribution', I would be willing to bet that the OS will not have to updated for many of the crashes/conflicts people are having with existing software. I bet most of the fixes come in the form of app updates. Still, Apple shouldn't expect users to understand issues like this and plan/deal with the situation accordingly. I think their actions on consumer information about Tiger has been rather weak, and should have explicitly stated that there was a good chance it would break apps that haven't had an update posted for them.
 
Got me. I've run all my apps without issue. iApps, iLife '05, iWork '05, Safari, ARD 2.2, Server Tools, Terminal, etc. Haven't seen much issue with Adobe CS either.

But, of course, YMMV. If you had any lurking system issues before installing, this will really bring 'em out!
 
Go3iverson said:
Got me. I've run all my apps without issue. iApps, iLife '05, iWork '05, Safari, ARD 2.2, Server Tools, Terminal, etc. Haven't seen much issue with Adobe CS either.

But, of course, YMMV. If you had any lurking system issues before installing, this will really bring 'em out!
Click to expand...

How could I after an HD Format and clean install? I installed the OS last on Wednesday morning, spotlight has been indexing ever since ... today is Friday!?!

Mail, iTunes, iPhoto, and Safari all crash on launch.

I have tried to move ahead and install Adobe CS so I can get some work done, but the installer crashes.

I've run Disk Utility and my HD checks out fine. Why would I have so much trouble while others are up and running with no probs at all?
 
I'm on the verge of sending mine back. I can't run 9 out of 10 of Apple's own apps...that's ridiculous. And then most Adobe CS2 and Office 2004 apps are crashing as well...though that's a tiny bit more forgivable as those aren't so much Apple's problem. But when I can use Apple's on products, there are issues.
 
Hmm, this is interesting... JPigford, what sort of install did you do? Archive/Install, Upgrade or Clean Install? While I don't have iLife, I have actually had only one problem with Safari wanting to slow to a crawl for no particular reason, so I am interested to see what is causing these issues. :)
 
For those who are having trouble, it could be due to bad memory. That's the only thing I can think off that could cause the kind of trouble that people are seeing. Try removing any additional RAM and see if that helps.

I'm running Tiger. MS Office 2004 (Word, Powerpoint & Excel), Photoshop Elements 3, XCode, Adium, Mail, Safari, Netbeans, iPhoto, iMovie, VLC, DVD Player, GraphicConverter, Matlab and loads of Unix apps run fine on my machine. I have yet to see a single application crash.
 
If you're just going to buy it again after things get fixed (I hear 10.4.1 is just around the corner) then why not just spare your self the trouble, install it on separate partition or something, have Panther on another, and wait it out?
 
bigbadbill said:
I am also returning my copy to Apple. I know I will eventually buy it again, but I want to deliver the message to Apple that this is UNACCEPTABLE!
Click to expand...

I've said it before, I've said it again. Don't go for the latest operating system right when it comes out because it's GUARANTEED you will have problems. It's not unacceptable, it's just a fact of life. Seems like demand is driving this "update fever" to new levels!

:)
 
For those of you that are having terrible problems with Tiger (I am not myself) I wonder if it would not help to look at things from a diagnostic perspective. What is different between a kit that is crashing and one that is running fine? Give Apple a little credit in that it should be able to run basic things like the iApps without any problems. How else could they even demo it in the stores?

What is different, idiosyncratic or unusual about your situation that could be the cause? If we can isolate that then it can be either fixed on your or Apple's end. For instance, I lied about not having any problems. Safari is not properly refreshing my RSS feeds when I move from my home Airport network to the office 100T network. I am sure that there is a real honest to goodness Apple branded bug in there. But getting all breathless and stomping off wont get it fixed. I am trying to isolate and characterize the problem and then I can guarantee you that Apple will get it fixed.
 
The wireless problems is probably because of a bug but any of those other problems is not Tiger. I'm running Office 2004, Adobe CS, iLive 05, Mail, Safari and a tonne of other programs without problems.

If this was a problem with the OS then it'd be happening to everyone.

VPC does work, just the virtual switch does not. I haven't come across anything that is affected by this yet.
 
An interesting sidelight on the VPC virtual switch. When I get launch VPC I get the warning, but VPC continues to launch and I can browse the internet as well as my Mac drives. I don't have an explanation, but it works so I am not complaining.

As for Microsoft's response time, look how long it took to come out with a version compatible with the G5 processor. Three or four months is exceptionally rapid response for Microsoft. The fact they acknowledged the incompatibility on day one leads me to suspect the Mac BU already knew about the problem.
 
Natobasso said:
I've said it before, I've said it again. Don't go for the latest operating system right when it comes out because it's GUARANTEED you will have problems. It's not unacceptable, it's just a fact of life. Seems like demand is driving this "update fever" to new levels!

:)
Click to expand...

agreed. people are upgrading from 10.3.9 - 9 updates and it's solid. it's going to be. it's not 10.3.10, it's 10.4. on a baser level, tiger is very different underneath, from what i've heard. the fact that on top it looks similar to panther is besides the point.

if they waited to put out a rock solid, completely no-issues OS, it'd come out after longhorn... and that wouldn't be good for the most advanced OS in the world. we're getting stuff MS only dreams about and you're complaining about a few bugs? do what i have. - get panther up and running on a partition (actually mines on one of my ipods (an eerily quiet experiance, i must say, the HDDs almost silent in that thing)) and then you can switch back whenever you want, or run panther until 10.4.9 comes out. then bitch about 10.5 being buggy after that

£0.02
 
Hmmm, somthing I just noticed. Is anyone else who's having problems running dual processors? Is anyone running dual processors without a hitch?
 
bigbadbill said:
Hmmm, somthing I just noticed. Is anyone else who's having problems running dual processors? Is anyone running dual processors without a hitch?
Click to expand...
I'm having problems and I have a Dual 2Ghz PowerMac G5. LOTS of apps have been crashing including many of Apple's on apps. They don't consistently crash...just in waves. There might be a 2 hours period where it doesn't matter what I open...it crashes. Then it might go 2 days and run flawlessly.
 
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