iBook G4?

Da_iMac_Daddy

Da_iMac_Daddy

Not-so-Neo-DumbA$$
On the back of the most recent MacMall catalogue there is an ad that reads "NEW iBook G4!" I thought I had missed something but it seems to be just a typo. Or maybe a little hint of things to come? ;)
 
a typo, of course. :)

glad you weren't an owner of a just released G3 iBook. You'd have gotten a heart attack. :)
 
It may be too soon for Apple to ditch the G3 on the iBook. It is less expensive than the G4, runs cooler and quieter, and still has some potential in terms of increased horsepower.
 
i just about had a heart attack when i saw this title... next time you do that to me, i press "the button" ;)
 
The ibook must go onto a G4 soon if Apple are to carry out the threat of all Macs booting only in OSX from jan 2003
 
Originally posted by spuchee
It may be too soon for Apple to ditch the G3 on the iBook. It is less expensive than the G4, runs cooler and quieter, and still has some potential in terms of increased horsepower.
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Ok, it runs cooler, I'll give you that. To say that it runs "quieter" hardly seems true. Yeah, it needs less cooling but my iBook is *much* louder than my P3 IBM thinkpad. The fact that it doesn't need as much cooling doesn't mean much if apple puts piece of junk fans in the case.

Increased horsepower? The G3s are so behind it's time to give up on them. Most people will agree that it's time to give up on the G4 as well.

The only reason that Apple is still putting G3s in the iBook (according to me) is to avoid eating into the sales of the tiBooks. That's it. There is no technical reason for it. As a customer, I don't like it. I want them to produce the best machines they can and I want them offered at reasonable prices. I have to imagine that Apple's margins are growing by the day because their prices machines are standing still and their component prices are dropping.

Vanguard
 
The G3 is held back by Apple, its not behind. In reality, it should have surpassed the G4 in MHz and system bus speed quite awhile ago. It is a lot cooler and quieter because the fan rarely comes on. Its a lot cheaper as well. Its just as fast as a G4 of the same MHz for non Altivec apps. The reason people think the G3 is crap is because Apple has conditioned them to think that way.

I would take a 1.5GHz G3 over a 1.25GHz G4 any day and if Apple wasn't holding the G3 back, we'd have that option. But the G3 doesn't support SMP. Right now, no, because no SMP motherboards have been designed for the G3. The Athlon didn't support SMP either when first released. If Apple wanted the G3 to support SMP it could very easily do so.

1GHz G3s were announced 14 months ago. Where the hell are they? :D
 
agreed


Originally posted by itanium
The G3 is held back by Apple, its not behind. In reality, it should have surpassed the G4 in MHz and system bus speed quite awhile ago. It is a lot cooler and quieter because the fan rarely comes on. Its a lot cheaper as well. Its just as fast as a G4 of the same MHz for non Altivec apps. The reason people think the G3 is crap is because Apple has conditioned them to think that way.

I would take a 1.5GHz G3 over a 1.25GHz G4 any day and if Apple wasn't holding the G3 back, we'd have that option. But the G3 doesn't support SMP. Right now, no, because no SMP motherboards have been designed for the G3. The Athlon didn't support SMP either when first released. If Apple wanted the G3 to support SMP it could very easily do so.

1GHz G3s were announced 14 months ago. Where the hell are they? :D
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Apple will most likely never step back when it comes to their technology. While the G3 may have the clock speed advantage, more and more apps (especially UNIX ported apps, ported under Jaguar) are AltiVec-enhanced. And, going back to G3 or releasing G3's @ faster clocks than G4's would be a PR/Marketing nightmare, and financially deadly. Besides, Apple has already basically said that 64 bit is the way to go, so they are obviously looking forward to that.
 
Originally posted by garymum4d
The ibook must go onto a G4 soon if Apple are to carry out the threat of all Macs booting only in OSX from jan 2003
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You can't only install OS X on G4s.
 
Originally posted by itanium
The G3 is held back by Apple, its not behind. In reality, it should have surpassed the G4 in MHz and system bus speed quite awhile ago. It is a lot cooler and quieter because the fan rarely comes on. Its a lot cheaper as well. Its just as fast as a G4 of the same MHz for non Altivec apps. The reason people think the G3 is crap is because Apple has conditioned them to think that way.

I would take a 1.5GHz G3 over a 1.25GHz G4 any day and if Apple wasn't holding the G3 back, we'd have that option. But the G3 doesn't support SMP. Right now, no, because no SMP motherboards have been designed for the G3. The Athlon didn't support SMP either when first released. If Apple wanted the G3 to support SMP it could very easily do so.
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Hmm, you seem to have a lot of agreement on this board but sadly your post is mostly fact free. Let me try and clear up some errors:

The G4 is faster even if the app isn't optimized for Altivec. Here's why:

Integer operations: The G3 is capable of executing three integer operations per clock cycle. The G4 is capable of 4 integer operations per clock cycle. Most of your general computing tasks are integer operations.

Of course, for floating point operations the Altivec unit kicks in and the difference is even more extreme. The G3 is capable of executing one fp operation per clock cycle. The G4 is capable of executing 4 32bit fp operations or 2 64 bit fp operations per clock. This information is all available in whitepapers provided by the CPU manufacturers. I sometimes read them to keep current with what's going on.

As for SMP, I'm not sure if the G3 supports it. It takes more than just an advanced motherboard to do SMP well.

The fan on my iBook runs everytime I open it. I figured that was normal.

Finally, I'm glad you mentioned that the G3 is a lot cheaper than the G4. Can you tell me what the prices for these CPUs are when purchased in bulk? I'm only guessing but I bet it's within $50. I stayed away from mentioning price in my post because I don't have the facts.

BTW, you probably didn't mean it as an insult but Apple is incapable of conditioning me to think that one CPU is better or worse than another. When you write to strangers on the net you should probably consider that they might be well schooled in the topics they post on.

Vanguard

PS I reread my post and it sounded kind of like a flame. It wasn't meant to attack, only to clear any confusion created by somebody who wrote in to correct my post. I might not been an modarator butt I'm no dummy. :)
 
Originally posted by vanguard
I might not been an modarator butt I'm no dummy. :)
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Anyone who's been here long enough knows that!:D :p
Anyway, thank you for bringing facts into the argument. My post was all opinion, but I wasn't arguing with anybody anyway - just pointing out that any argument that the G3 might be a little better in a Mac than the G4 is wasted breath (or keystrokes) whether it's true or not. I really appreciate informed posts like yours.
Anyway, speaking of facts, here's one that supports my comment about UNIX apps ported to Mac under Jaguar are AltiVec-enhanced:
http://www.apple.com/macosx/jaguar/unix.html
Developers will appreciate the inclusion of GCC 3.1, which offers 25% better code generation and compiles your code in as little as one sixth the time. Also, Apple engineers have optimized the standard suite of math libraries to use the vector instructions on the PowerPC G4 chip (also known as the Velocity Engine). That means you can get optimal performance for your applications without writing assembly or platform-specific code.
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The G3 has cache issues when used in SMP configs, which is why it isn't used in SMP. You might beable to fix it with a fancy mb, but it would just be cheeper to use a G4 in a SMP config.
 
Let's face it, the G3 isn't a bad processor. IBM has even given it 'some' kind of AltiVec engine, although not exactly, which is why apps don't take advantage of it. So that doesn't even matter. Still: For day to day use, the G3 is a 'better' processor, since it uses much less power at the clock rate. It's perfect for the iBook and would also make sense in a PowerBook if you don't use it for video editing and the like.

My personal guess is that there'll _never_ be a G4 iBook, but that there'll be a major chip shift before that. We'll see iBook upgrades in (ca.) March and September. Both will be G3 processors in my opinion. After that? The iBook will just have to stay below the PowerBook is all...
 
Perhaps it's due to the fact that *my* iBook horribly underpowered that have a special dislike of the G3. It's hard to watch longer web pages (such as those found on slashdot) take 18 seconds to render while my cpu is maxed out at 100%.

I've played with the newer/faster iBooks at the apple store and things have improved. However, the problem still exists. I watch for 4 or 5 seconds as the CPU spins at 100% trying to render a web page.

For me, I'm done with weak processors. The G3 is a better choice for set top boxes and microwaves than it is for a modern computer (according to me). Maybe I wouldn't be so bummed about it if I had a newer iBook.

We've all seen the G4 get crushed by current x86 processors. We've even seen dual G4s lose to them, in some cases rather badly. How do you think the G3 would do? My bet is that it's time to retire it.

Vanguard
 
w00t.... i did not even know my iBook HAD a fan till this thread....
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My original 500 Mhz iBook was absolutely quiet, no fan, no HD crunching, no DVD spinning noise.
My next iBook, 600Mhz on a 100 Mhz mb, was actually a little bit noiser, 'cause the fan kicked in while playing highly demanding games... but it was a quiet fan, anyway.
My brand new 800 Mhz iBook instead is a noisy piece of junk: the SONY combo drive spins and zipps noisily, the fan remembers me of a fancoil I used to look at in a museum, the IBM HD grinds constantly, and makes a distinctive 'tud' each time I click anything on the screen. I never thought hot air could actually come out of the back of the iBook until I had this monster in my hands.
I think Apple has progressively degraded the quality of its components as a cost-saving procedure to keep itself in the black. Well, they've done the worst thing they could do.
 
According to my foggy memory, my fan wasn't loud at first. It had become louder as the piece of junk ages.

My combo drive also makes noise but I don't use it very often and I've never had an expectation of a quiet optical drive.

And as long as I'm off topic anyway (original topic was something to do with G4s in iBooks) my power supply hasn't worked well since the day I bought it. I have to fiddle with the part that plugs into the side of the notebook to get it to charge. Even after it does charge it often twists a bit and stops charging. Apple has improved the connectors in later models of the iBook.

Vanguard
 
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