Incompatiblity for the intellectually challenged

easterhay

easterhay

little green rosetta
I can tune a 12-string guitar whilst wasted and understand my two-year-old daughter when she talks in her sleep at 3am with a dummy in her mouth.
But I don't understand the relationship between Mac and PC. Is it possible to run OsX on any old PC and XP on any old Mac, or is that only possible through Bootcamp?
Because if the second scenario is true, I don't understand - what makes my iBook G4 physically incapable of hosting Windoze? Or isn't it?
Boy, I'm confused.
As with previous posts, please explain it to me like I'm six.
 
No, you cannot run OS X on any old PC... Apple specifically prevents this to protect their hardware sales, or for other reasons.

No, you cannot run Windows on your iBook G4.

The reason you cannot run Windows on your iBook G4 is that your iBook uses an IBM PowerPC processor, which is based on an architecture called RISC architecture. Windows only runs on processors that are based on the CISC architecture, which is what the Intel processors are based around. The new Intel-based Macintosh computers use those same Intel CISC processors instead of PowerPC RISC processors, and therefore can run Windows (with a little help from Apple in the form of BootCamp -- specifically, hardware support and drivers for Windows to "see" and use the Mac hardware).

In short, these two different architectures are not compatible with each other. They "speak different languages," so-to-speak. Er, actually, a program itself (Windows is a program, and also a collection of programs) must speak to the processor in a certain language... kind of like the Spanish language and the French language -- sort of similar, but completely different and incompatible. If your program speaks French and your processor Spanish, well, just doesn't work...
 
Thank you - once again - for such a concise Idiot's Guide. Spanish and French I can cope with, though to me computers mostly speak Greek. Or Double-Dutch. Hey ho, so long as they look pretty and don't crash whilst doing it, that's all I ask.
Was the decision to go their separate ways, architecturally speaking, corporate, technical or pig-headed?
 
CISC was easier and cheaper to develop in the 80's. windows went with that, and windows became very popular. with that, CISC (or x86 compatible processors as they are more commonly referred) became the standard, and not one easily changed.

RISC was more advanced, was more efficient, but ultimately more expensive to develop. IBM was a firm that chose to develop these processors, their POWER line of high-end super-computer processors. the PowerPC was a scaled down version of this, that was suitable for the personal/home computer market. the 3rd generation PowerPC line of chips, apple decided to call G3. the G4 and G5 are the 4th and 5th generations, respectively. Motorola also developed these chips, being mainly responsible for the G4.

motorola began to lose interest in the G4, and apple looked to IBM to redevelop what would become the G5. it was brilliant, but then IBM also started to lose interest in the desktop pc market, being as they're now the main developer and supplier of all the chips in in the XBOX 360, the PS3 and even the Nintendo Revolution.

that's actually another example of the difference. all the major upcoming consoles will be using the RISC-based PowerPC line of processors. all major desktop computers will be using CISC.

so now, apple have made a major switch to using CISC-based x86 intel processors (AMD also make x86 processors). this means that all the PowerPC software won't run on intel, and intel software won't run on PPC, without an emulation layer, which is like having a french-spanish translator between the software and the processors translating the 'conversation' on the fly. this makes things slower, but workable (imagine having this conversation, if you are talking to someone in your own native languagel, the conversation is natural and flowing, with a translator to another language, the conversation is slower).

windows can't run on your G4 without emulation. look for Virtual PC, which runs windows on your G4 by emulating the CISC environment. it is very slow though.

Windows can run on the intel macs, and apple have let you do it.

mac OS X can't run on PC's, because apple are trying their best to stop you.
 
Thanks for the interesting history. I never cease to wonder at the speed with which things become obsolete, upgraded, phased out, merged, shut down or discontinued these days. Only bought my iBook (10.3.9) a year ago and I get grumpy when the Version Tracker daily bulletin contains so many new programs which simply aren't available for my 'ancient' version of OsX.
Thanks again for the answer
 
Of course we could get into the whole discussion about whether technology is actually obsoleted if it's still useful. I still have a Quadra 650 that still gets a lot of use by me even though it's been discontinued for almost 15 years. I've repeated this before and I'll say it again, the only obsolete computer is a dead one.....and even then you can use the parts for something else! :p
 
Truetruetrue, but you've got to be savvy enough to keep it going, which I'm not, more's the pity. This 'forced obsolescence' drives me batty. If something breaks these days, nine times out of 10 it is either:
- cheaper to buy a new one than repair the old one
- impossible to repair the old one because they don't make the parts any more
- impossible to repair the old one because you have to b*gg*r the glued/riveted/welded/moulded plastic outer casing to get to the broken part
- pointless to repair it because the task you use it for has evolved.
And don't get me started on the big chain video stores which take in 15 billion copies of a new movie on DVD, but only one copy on VHS to share around the Luddites like me. In the end it becomes less hassle to give in, buy a DVD player and turn your faithful old VCR into an outsized paperweight.
And no, I don't believe commerce is responding to market forces. It is utterly the other way round and always has been. "You can have any colour you like, so long as it's black."
Rant-Rant-Rant-RANT!
I salute you, nixgeek, for keeping your dinosaur going for so long. I know where to send my machines when they break down!!
 
Hey I would take it but my wife would have my head for bringing in more "junk" (according to her....how dare she! :p) into the house.

As a matter of fact, I quietly brought back a StarMax 4000 Mac clone into the house since the temperature in the car was now getting to hot for it to sit there. It's still in need of a new home. :rolleyes:
 
Hmm, I have the opposite problem - I have no TV or VCR, only a computer with a DVD drive. Unfortunately, lots of good, old (and even relatively recent) movies are only available on VHS at my local video store. I generally don't much care about watching the latest new releases - I've already got a long list of movies I really must see sometime. But I'm not going to go out and get a TV and VCR to clutter my house with, for the one or two movies a month that I do watch...

Incidentally, if you want to run Windows on your iBook G4, another option is iEmulator - http://www.iemulator.com/ - it's considerably cheaper the Virtual PC, and also supposedly a bit faster (I haven't used it, though I have drunk wine with the fellow who develops it). That's all relative though - as Lt. Maj. Burns says though, running an emulator is never what you'd call fast.
 
When I used iEmulator it was double-dog slow. VPC being, of course, dog slow.

I'm surprised you're running into roadblocks when looking for software on Versiontracker. Does that much software _require_ OS X 10.4? Here's an idea, wait until 10.5 is released somewhere around the new year. Then buy a copy of 10.4. At that point it should be selling for, I don't know, a lot less than $129.

Doug
 
Thanks for the replies, scruffy and Doug. I don't actually want to run windoze on my iBook, though thanks for the pointers as to how I could if I chose to.
I still have a now ancient HP notebook running 98 and a CF card for moving stuff between the two. And I think that's as close to windows as I want my iBook to get. <NOTE: I am a relatively recent switcher, and therefore still a total snob regarding my former OS!>
I had been wondering about how/when to update to Tiger. High dollar pricetags are a bit out of reach where I am, so the suggestion to wait until 10.5 comes out before upgrading to 10.4 is smart. I hadn't thought about how obsolescence could work in my favour like that!
I don't have t-h-a-t many problems with Versiontracker's offerings being technologically beyond me, just enough to niggle.

Top notch quote in your signature btw scruffy
 
Does anyone remember Soft Windows for the pre-G series Macs? I loved this program and it had none of the speed issues that Virtual PC seems to have. I used it on a Quadra, Duo-Dock and the first gen Power PC.

I could really use some advice for my Power PC G3 with OS 10.3.9. I work as an online assistant and I am having translation difficulties. Should I invest in Office for Mac, Virtual PC or both?

At one time I was a hardware/software tech for Macs but I have gotten lost in the mire of all the new machines. I can't afford a new machine but if I could I fear I am ready for my first PC. Help me!
 
(It looks like you accidentally resurrected a thread from 2006. :) )

Welcome to MacOSX.com!

Soft Windows was similar to Virtual PC and had similar speed and compatibility problems, though it may have been somewhat faster. I never used it.

You mention that you're having translation difficulties. I'm not sure exactly what that means. Are you getting files from co-workers that you can't read? There could be several reasons for this. If you're receiving Microsoft Office documents created in the last couple years, you may be receiving ".docx" files. This is the new Office document format (Word). If you have Office 2004 for Mac, you can get a free update that will read those .docx files. The newest Mac Office, Office 2008 for Mac, requires at least a G4, so it will not work on your machine.

If you don't have Office at all on your Mac, I'd advise seriously considering Office 2004. I'm sure you can still find copies to purchase. There are free choices, such as NeoOffice or OpenOffice.org, but the compatibility is not perfect. I don't know if it is yet possible to open up .docx and similar Excel and PowerPoint files in Neo and Open. I don't think Virtual PC will be of much help to you. It will be very, very slow and a lot of software doesn't work.

Finally, on MacOSX.com, we'd probably tend to suggest you replace your old Mac with a newer Mac instead of a PC. There are advantages both ways. I appreciate the Mac's advantages the most, and I think for most people OS X is plenty compatible. I own Microsoft Office, and I'm able to open anything and everything Office (well, Word, Excel, Powerpoint) from Windows users without a hitch.
 
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