Leopard 10.5.5 Freezing Soon After Log-In

dodginess

dodginess

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Hi,

I hope someone can help me with this please:

I have an eMac running 10.5.5 that won't work any more - I'm able to log-in but the system freezes up after about a minute with some hard disc thrashing going on. When it freezes there is also occasionally an odd image artifact left on the screen, like a small black pixel or something similar. Once it freezes there is no more hard disc activity and I just get the spinning beachball.

I'm able to boot into Safe Mode and the system runs fine after that, so the problem is just when I try and log-in normally. I've also tried zapping the PRAM but that didn't seem to make any difference. I don't have any start-up programs running (as far as I'm aware) and haven't installed any new software recently apart from some printer driver software about two weeks ago so I don't think this is the culprit. I have the hard drive cloned to an external drive (connected by FireWire) and exactly the same thing happens when I use that as the start-up disk, so it's obviously an OS problem. The only reason I've been able to post this message is because I always keep a spare Mac on hand in the event of problems like this :)

If anyone could offer any suggestions they would be greatly appreciated - my guess is that some important part of the OS might be corrupted, but I have no idea how to go about diagnosing or fixing that.

Thanks in advance!
 
Have you thought about updating to 10.5.8? (The newest Leopard) Download the combined 10.5.8 updater from Apple. There's a reason for updates.
 
Your symptoms are quite common on eMacs, and also the G5 iMacs sold in that same period (new in 2004-5)
Freezes and video artifacts on an eMac lead me to suspect a hardware failure.
The old "swelling or leaking capacitors" is VERY likely, and fairly easy to check.
Turn off and unplug your eMac.
Turn it over, so you can remove the access panel, where you can replace the RAM or battery.
Inside that compartment, you'll find the RAM slots, a battery, a reset button, and the connector for the CD drive.
You'll also see several cans, little silver cylinders. Those should be absolutely flat on top, with no evidence of any leaking (which will be a brown "goo") If you see any swelling or leaking, that's the problem. You may also find that the internal power supply has the same problem. The capacitors can be replaced, as the parts are fairly easy to find. You do need pretty good soldering skills to do that, or find a shop, or someone else who can do the repair.
 
Thanks for your responses - to answer them:

SGilbert - the eMac was bought refurbished and already had 10.5.5 installed. I don't really want to upgrade it because I've got no way of going back if it doesn't work (of course, it doesn't work now anyway so that point is moot I guess).

DeltaMac - I just checked the capacitors where the RAM is and they look perfectly normal - no bulges or leaks. What I don't quite understand is why everything is fine in safe boot mode - if there was a hardware fault then I would have thought that it wouldn't be possible to boot into any mode. I have had a "freezing" problem with an eMac before but it was the hard drive overheating.

So, by a process of elimination, if it works in safe boot mode and (according to Apple) safe boot mode disables all startup items and login items, user extensions and user fonts then that would seem to be a good starting point.

I haven't tried single user mode yet so I'll try this next, but any other input would be very helpful!
 
You did need to try to eliminate the common hardware fault on eMacs, so that may be OK - but to fully check means to pull the outer cover, and the inner shield off, so you can check the REST of the capacitors. There's about a dozen more in another area of the logic board - and the power supply can have its own issues.
And software can make a difference, because parts of video drivers don't load when you boot to safe mode, so does not exercise the video hardware fully.
Anyway, assuming the hardware is OK - then, try upgrading your OS X software. You said you have a clone on an external hard drive, so if things get worse, you can always recover your system from that clone (and that means that you DO have a method to return to your original system, if you need to do that)
I doubt that upgrading to 10.5.8 will make things worse, unless the problem is a failing hard drive (which is possible, too)
So, download and install the OS X combined 10.5.8 updater, from here: http://support.apple.com/kb/DL866
The combined updater can sometimes clean up glitches in your system that might appear for no apparent reason, so give that update a try.
 
Thanks - that sounds like good advice. Your point about the video drivers also makes a lot of sense - a fault in the video circuits might only show up if it's trying to use hardware acceleration for desktop effects, etc. it's getting late here now so I'll take off the eMac case tomorrow and have a look at the capacitors, but I had a real problem getting the shielding back on once before so I'm always a bit reticent to do this.

Just on another point, the problem occurs with the cloned drive as well - they're identical now because I originally thought the hard drive in the eMac was on its way out and spent most of today cloning it (thank you Carbon Copy Cloner). This is what lead me to think that it was an OS problem, but these eMacs are all getting on now (as are the G5 iMacs) so it could easily be a problem with the circuits. I do have a definitive way to test this now I think about it though because I still have an old eMac to hand - that was "retired" a while back with some kind of power supply problem (you had to leave it on for about 30 minutes then keep power-cycling it to get it going) but once it was up-and-running it used to work fine, so I'll try booting that from the cloned drive to see what happens.

Thanks again - I really appreciate your help :)
 
There's two generations of eMacs. The older have a silver access panel on the bottom. The newer has a white panel.
If yours is an older eMac (with a 700 or 800 MHz processor) then that can also explain some of your challenges. The video hardware on the older eMacs does not always "play" nicely with 10.5.
Your remarks about the shielding makes me wonder if yours is one of the older ones, which has a very short, springy cable for the power button. And the internal shield is always a struggle, with lots of very sharp places, and I always seem to forget the separate speaker assembly. The newer ones don't have the speaker box, and the shield is much easier to put in place.

Maybe I should tell you that I do still like eMacs. I rebuilt about 200 for a school district about two years ago, and I could probably still take one completely apart while blindfolded. :D When Apple was still replacing the logic board for failed capacitors, I probably replaced about 300 (more or less). The oldest eMacs had a problem with the internal video cable (ivad cable), which is the only time that I have ever used a glue gun during a repair on a Mac.
So, I think I know what makes them fail, and how to make one work.
I've seen a lot of the internal power supply - called a down-converter board - with failed caps on that, which can cause problems with booting and video, too.

Good luck! Let me know if I can help you....
 
Thanks again DeltaMac :)

Just to confirm, I do have a 3rd generation eMac but I haven't ever taken the cover off - the last time I removed the shielding was on a 1st gen one and (as you mention) it's different to the later ones and more difficult to put back in place.

So...I tried fixing the OS on the clone drive and booting another Mac from it with no problems, but when I boot off of it from my eMac it doesn't work. Safe boot mode works fine so I took the case off and found a bulging capacitor, indicated by the arrow in the picture:

emac_3rd_generation.jpg


Is it viable to fix this without too much difficulty? I would like to keep the eMac (assuming that fixing it would just be for the cost of a new capacitor, if I do it myself) and it seems a shame to just get rid of it - I realise that the problem may not just be isolated to this one capacitor of course.

At the risk of repeating myself, thanks again for all your help and interest!
 
That depends on your soldering skills.
Also, here's a page with better identification of the bad caps, and what you need to locate for replacement parts. You can also google for "Emac capacitor kits", which will show a variety of sources.
I recommend that you replace ALL those caps (there's about 13?), so you don't need to do it again.
Be sure to check the down converter board, which attaches to the part of the logic board on the opposite side, not showing in your picture. There's several more caps on that board, and that can give you more problems later on.
 
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