Longhorn

Originally posted by tsizKEIK
AMD (i think 1.7 Ghz). very new computer . with geforce 4 ti. 512 ram and Asus main board. anyway. my friend enters the windows 2000 cd. formats the hard disk and installs windows 2000 professional. after finishing all hardware softaware setups, presses start, shut down, restart my computer. once he logs in he gets a blue screen. how stable and very efficient is that ? (and im sure that my friend was not an exception)

Oh my god, what a coincidence. I have an Athlon XP 2200 with 512 megs ram and an ATI Radeon 9000 Pro and the Windows XP installation not only detects all of my hardware, it's also stable and doesn't crash. I must be the ONLY PC USER IN THE WORLD THAT HAS NO PROBLEMS RIGHT?

By your statement, only PC users WITHOUT problems are exceptions when that isn't true.
 
Originally posted by Xeiliex
i personally think xp is an ever slowing pile of rubbage in a shiny blue wrapper. i have an AMD Athlon XP 1700+ box and an Intel P4 2.0 ghz. i had to spend a few hours on both cleaning the darned thing to make them run at reasonable pace. i agree freezing out the box is a very bad thing but to say xp never freezes in an all out lie.


XP is the biggesst ram hog i have ever seen. in fact i was test somethig another user notice form another forum and this box froze right up. i lock up very often in PS7. i often hear stories of now havingto reboot xp very often but some i havereboot at least once a day because something either slow performance down to almost unusable or in completely locks up. and don't let me get started on the intel box

and speaking of "slowest computers" i tried to install xp on a properly configure celron 533 w/ 256 mb ram and the installer locked up.

WINDOWS XP IS A RAM HOG? Did you ever even USE OS X? OS X is not content with 128, put in 384 it's not content. Try 512 it's still not happy. Try 768, it's still not enough. Put in two gigs and finally, it alls seems to work right.

With 256 megs ram, my Athlon was a speed demon. Put in 768, and it got MUCH faster. However, the point remains that at 256 it was damn fast. Nobody can claim that with OS X. OS X users start cheering the second their system DOESN'T freeze when transferring files, Windows users EXPECT that and get pissed off if it DOES freeze.

It's two different worlds baby, Windows is winning.

Andre
 
Originally posted by Jason
while i agree with the fact that ms is using the idea of a gpu accelerated os after apple, i still dont get what is horribly wrong with that.... are they not supposed to advance? and how is that ms doesnt not have room to experiment? they run much of the world, they cant pull what apple did with osx, (meaning introduce a new os that is basically not compatible with anything at all until new stuff is made for it) it just CANT happen on that scale.

am i saying MS would have thought of the idea if they could experiment more? no. But they sure as hell would have done it sooner than this. MS doesnt make huge changes to its OS because, partially, they dont have the balls, and partially because they cant afford to do that to its customers. IMHO them "not having the balls" is a smart choice. If they make a radically different OS then they could possibly conjure up quite a bit of confusion and dislike among the "normal peoples" crowd (meaning those who dont want to get into all the technicalities of a computer).

like i said before, no matter what MS would have done, whether it be not doing this, doing this now, or hell even doing this before, alot of people around here would have just passed judgement on it being stupid without even looking at the situation. but hey MS and bill gates are such idiots, its a wonder how theyve been such a success :p ;)

No one around here called seriously the M$ (and Wintel in general) stupid... We just called them Dark Side and Apple wannabies :D ;)

Seriously though, the problem with Wintel is that they don't pay their respects... Especially, this guy Bill Gates, saying that Apple only innovates in colors? Damn! They must be some amazingly original colors in order for them to try to immitate them THAT hard! :rolleyes:

Oh, and there is nothing wrong having them incorporating 3d stuff in their GUI... If anything they give me another reasons to sell more Macs:

Customer:
- I really liked those sweet effects of LongHorn and I would like to buy a Wintel which will be able to handle all those stuff when they will come out as well as the up and coming Doom 3 game...
Me:
- Then Mr/Mrs why not buy those sweet effects now and enjoy them ASAP instead of waiting for couple years?
Customer:
- What do you mean?
Me (Showing Genie, Scale, Suck, Minimize in Place, Dock Minimize, Transparencies, etc. effects):
- See this? That? What about this?

After 15 mins customer walks away with eMac 1GHz and with a HUGE smile in his/her face all while doing this :p to customers at the Wintel shop 10 meters down the road... :D
 
Originally posted by tsizKEIK
wasnt classic and carbon used for such reasons ?

sorry but classic isnt a viable option for many users out there with "normal" amounts of ram, or businesses with software that doesnt work in classic (which are many at least on the graphics/photography etc side)
 
Originally posted by hulkaros
Customer:
- I really liked those sweet effects of LongHorn and I would like to buy a Wintel which will be able to handle all those stuff when they will come out as well as the up and coming Doom 3 game...
Me:
- Then Mr/Mrs why not buy those sweet effects now and enjoy them ASAP instead of waiting for couple years?
Customer:
- What do you mean?
Me (Showing Genie, Scale, Suck, Minimize in Place, Dock Minimize, Transparencies, etc. effects):
- See this? That? What about this?

After 15 mins customer walks away with eMac 1GHz and with a HUGE smile in his/her face all while doing this :p to customers at the Wintel shop 10 meters down the road... :D

yeah but, as much as you might hate to hear this, if someone wants doom 3 then they wont be looking into, or interested in a mac, especially an emac.

longhorn is from what ive seen a pretty big step for windows, true its built upon xp/2000, but its added the gpu acceleration, and a new file system (which i dont know the details of). these are big steps for an operating system which needs to work with just about everything out there... so its not end all of operating systems, and it obvious MS is taking some cues from Apple, but apple has done the same in the past, and this is normal business practice in any field you look at. one company makes an innovation, all competing companies see that and say "hey, it would be smart if we did something like that as well" if this didnt happen all we would have are monopolies all over the place, with no choices at all and very little innovation.

did gm thank mazda after mazda's rx8 styling influenced the design of the ssr? did sega thank nintendo for inventing the side scrolling game? compaq thank palm for innovating in the personal hand held computer field?

you see something cool, you implement the idea into your own product, it is improved over your previous product and hopefully your competetors product. this is the life of business. competition, new ideas, innovation, and face it, the borrowing of ideas.

---

cell, im with you, i must be a rarity because my pc performed as consistantly as my mac... how odd... with crappy hardware no less...

---

long horn... looks cool, the video demos are obviously just to show the power, there are no functions of those effects (much like apple did with somethings and quartz). hopefully they implement it well. i like the look, but we'll see what happens down the road.
 
Originally posted by Jason
yeah but, as much as you might hate to hear this, if someone wants doom 3 then they wont be looking into, or interested in a mac, especially an emac.

Of course I knew that and the customers knew that when they selected the eMacs 1GHz... But they felt like 10-15 fps with low res = No problem! What XBOX is for anyways? :p :D ;)

As for the other things I think that round and round we always go... In the end, Pros like Mr.Philip W. Schiller and Mr.Bill Gates know these things better, don't they? :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by Jason

cell, im with you, i must be a rarity because my pc performed as consistantly as my mac... how odd... with crappy hardware no less...

well my brothers PC with WIndows 2000 professional doesnt perform that well. actually it freezes all the time.
and 95% of my friends who have either windows XP or 2000 also have numerous of problems(eg incompatibilities) and crashes ALL the time.
most of the PCs ive seen need a format every 3-4 months cause problems keep on showing up more frequently.

i dont know, maybe Windows computers here in Greece have some sort of SARS virus and thats why they crash :)
where do u guys live ? maybe i should give it a shot round ur neighbourhood :)
 
Hmm, if the PC folk are Catholic and the Apple folk Orthodox Jews, does that explain why NT stands for New Testament?

Also, is Longhorn named for the type of cow or for the cheese?
 
I installed WIN XP, on my old IBM Aptiva, 475 AMD processor. SLOW, but it is installed. Yah, the interface is faster, but appears to me it is "dumbed down", compared to X. It is certainly a usable OS for anyone. Many of us will get bored quickly without a UNIX Terminal.
 
Longhorn is named for a mountain up in Wastington. But with the looney tune UI that they decided to put on it, I would say it was named after cheese, cause it looks very cheesy
 
it is a fact you have to customize alot of things (but i like being able to customize out of the box) on windows xp to make it usable for anyone remotely advanced

and hulk... most definately, this is why we arent rich ;)
 
Originally posted by tsizKEIK
well my brothers PC with WIndows 2000 professional doesnt perform that well. actually it freezes all the time.
and 95% of my friends who have either windows XP or 2000 also have numerous of problems(eg incompatibilities) and crashes ALL the time.
most of the PCs ive seen need a format every 3-4 months cause problems keep on showing up more frequently.

i dont know, maybe Windows computers here in Greece have some sort of SARS virus and thats why they crash :)
where do u guys live ? maybe i should give it a shot round ur neighbourhood :)

That may be true. Formating every 3-4 months, actually it does sound a lot like your friends are getting nailed by virus'? There are several of us here on this board that use Win2K and/or XP everyday (and are surrounded by people who do like wise) that have been churning for months/years without the level of problems that you and your friends have experienced. I haven't worked for a company that would stand for having to format every single one of their computers once a quarter to take care of those kinds of problems. Maybe this is an issue of home use vs corp use? Where in the corp the hardware configs tend to be much more standardized and people are generally discouraged from tinkering?

My personal experience is that OSX will hang/flake out on me about once or twice a week. By flaking out I mean the entire system will slow to a crawl and the only way out is to shut the system down (pull the plug). Now I do do some mucking about with wireless and I'm sure at least a few of my problems are related to that, but there are certainly times when I'm just working in Werd or browsing in Safari and things just seem to go weird. Now my Win2K box (personal) is no paragon of virtue either, but it's certainly no worse.

I think someone summarized earlier that neither OS is perfect from a stability standpoint (or even from a usabillity standpoint). OSX is a huge leap over OS9 and below. But NT (and it's derivatives) are huge leaps over 95 (and it's derivitives). Someone always knows somebody else who had a bad experience with whatever OS you choose. Since there are significantly more Wintel users out there, you are going to hear significantly more complaints, no surprise here.

Oh and to the issue of why M$ doesn't "innovate" as much as Apple. I think the answer is simple, they don't have to. Apple has to innovate to keep it's market share up. Apple is fighting the market more than it's fighting any competitor, innovation is crucial. M$ doesn't have that concern (at least not nearly to the extent that Apple does). Their focus is on controlling what they have, and innovation doesn't factor into that strategy as much as say DRM. M$ is more than happy to let Apple pave the way, why wouldn't they? Should they give props to Apple for originating ideas, well, thats open to interpretation. Should BMW acknowledge Alpha Romeo for originating the idea for variable valve timing (or Honda for making it available for the masses)?

Another thing to consider is that corps don't care about innovation anyway. Your average home user is wowed by iLife, but your average corp user doesn't give a flip. They want a reasonably stable OS with the apps they need (word processing, db, spreadsheet, presentation, email) and a way to administer these boxes as simply as possible. Is your average IT guy going to choose an OS because it has hardware accelerated 3d icons, nope. Remember, Apple can focus on home users and content providers, and provide innovations that appeal to those groups. M$ is trying to woo the same group PLUS button down corps, server room IT guys, and pretty much everyone else, so the payoff of such "innovation" isn't the same for them.
 
WINDOWS XP IS A RAM HOG? Did you ever even USE OS X? OS X is not content with 128, put in 384 it's not content. Try 512 it's still not happy. Try 768, it's still not enough. Put in two gigs and finally, it alls seems to work right.

With 256 megs ram, my Athlon was a speed demon. Put in 768, and it got MUCH faster. However, the point remains that at 256 it was damn fast. Nobody can claim that with OS X. OS X users start cheering the second their system DOESN'T freeze when transferring files, Windows users EXPECT that and get pissed off if it DOES freeze.

It's two different worlds baby, Windows is winning.

Andre

I am shocked. Just shocked by these results! I mean imagine a 2.2 ghz machine is out performing a 600 mhz machine. That can't be possible.

Cell, you post the same argument over and over again. If you want it to have any credibility you need to install XP on 600 mhz machine with 384 MB of RAM.

Just my two cents.
 
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