longhorn

I go to school and the thread I started has two pages! lol..... but regarding an earlier post:

Quote-"I dont see how you can say they are even behind Apple let alone 4 years. Apples security has been shown to be such a joke recently."

Are you kidding me? Have you used OS X......There's been probably what 12 security updates in the last 6-8 months compared to 1 to 2 every other day on xp? And the updates on OS X are usually what 600 kb's to 1 mb? I don't know what your talking about..........

Longhorn looks like xp with more help pages to guide you how to do stuff and set up things (OS X is literally plug it in, your done, in most cases) and your right I shouldn't say the sidebars a rip off msn 8, but we could go get the msn software for 10 dollars and have the same thing practically. Also theres some much better graphics.....lol, right window transparency and some copying from OS X ( the windows flap around when u move them? whats the point in this besides it looking exactly like minimizing/bringing back up windows in OS X? why would you want your windows doing that when you move them around..I move windows all the time and I know this would get annoying after two seconds). Also theres some effect where all the windows are abruptly tunred sideways/upside down/any and every direction and you can still type in the window you were in before doing this. The point? They're obviously showing they could have expose features, but I hope apple has that feature patented and microsoft would look really stupid if they just outright copied it. I've seen some pictures where there's a hump at the end of the start bar. Wow that is innovative and exciting (note the sarcasm please). And the start-up says Windows Longhorn with a black background and there are now three little RED bars that go by.....It's amazing I tell you. Now I also know windows is great. And I'm not kidding. 91% of the world uses it right, so they have to be doing something.....oh wait they copied key features and ideas the mac os had which came out in 1984 and released windows 95. In all reality, windows has one good feature, they run on pc's which are superior to mac in the video game department (Although the G5 has picked up remarkably in closing this gap, and when we see the dual 3 ghz G5, the gap oughta be closed) . Also, you can get crummy pc's at unbelievably cheap prices ($399 Dells, for example) but you could pay 850 and get a quality emac with 512 ram and a 1 ghz powerpc g4. I know I will get hit hard by windows lovers about how I know nothing and that windows is the best, but you can check the facts. The original Mac did start the age of a real OS, they came out with the first low-cost mouse, they started the computer revolution. I want people to also know that up to just 5 months ago, I never owned a mac in my life, but I am really good with computers and it literally took me about an hour to figure out how to use the mac OS (jaguar at the time) and understand how much easier, simple it was to use. I used to even think windows was awesome........lol. I'd like to point out one more thing. My friend has a 333 mhz iMac from 1999 with 288 mb of ram, and he runs OS X Panther, and even though the graphics arent what they are on my 17" iMac 1.25 ghz, its still an incredible system. And for 250 dollars hes putting in a 600 mhz upgrade, and maxing the ram for 48 dollars to 512, which I am sure will make it run just a little bit better :p . I would love to see windows xp run on a 5 year old pc with the stock processor and that much ram (if it was possible?) . So my advice is go to the nearest apple store, use one of your friends macs, and just use it for 2 hours, give it a chance. You may end up wanting to switch just as fast as I did. Also I know this post got off the longhorn subject a little, but theres not much to talk about :D .

Jonathan
 
jonmichael23 said:
I go to school and the thread I started has two pages! lol...
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... probably because you've chosen a subject prone to flaming? :)

On the same note: Do we really _have_ to discuss something completely un-Apple here years before it's even finished?
 
that last post was just a tad too long and too much..... sorry. I just got mad that someone said apples security has been getting bad. Windows is not all that bad, and longhorn will likely be a whole lot better, and if not, cooler then xp. I can't wait for the next OS X though ;) . Panther would be fine for the next years to come, but apple's always innovating so......can't wait. Anyone actually have the longhorn build 4051? I hear the beta 1's releasing this summer, any chance it will be available to more then pdc attendees and msdn subscribers who can get their hands on it? Always want to see what the competitions doing :D .

Jon
 
jonmichael23 said:
What are your thoughts of it? It doesnt look that great to me......of the cool new features we all already have them in panther. And by late 2005/2006 well have 10.4.x or maybe even 10.5 and will already be way ahead of longhorn.....even though 10.2.x will still be ahead of it :p lol. Transparency in windows? wow like we dont have that already. And the sidebar thing is a rip of the sidebar thing in MSN 8....its the same almost. Anyways, anyone know where to find the PDC 2003 keynote? I wanted to watch about longhorn,see how much has been copied, but I can't seem to find the video anywhere. Thanks!

Jon
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Bottom line is that any new Windows OS is still built on DOS which is about as obsolete as stone tools. Just go into CMD and you can still enter DOS commands in Windows (I don't want to hear any Windows weenies say that Windows is built on "NT" technology... bullshit). Microsoft has dug itself into a techno-hole by not nipping their ancient underpinnings in the bud. To rebuild Windows on a solid kernel/OS they'd have to ditch DOS and the millions of apps that run on it or run slow emulators. The only thing keeping MS in the OS business is their monopoly which I, unfortunately, don't see changing any time soon. Intel can kiss my megahertz ass too - they have to dig themselves out of the "megahertz myth." They may have fast chips but they don't do anything in a clock cycle. My weedwacker runs at 20,000 rpm but it won't budge my car that runs at 1000-6500 rpm. Apple may nibble a few more percentage points but they'll never get back to the late '80s in terms of market share. What I do see happening is a huge shift away from Windows in the server arena toward Linux - this tickles me to death. I'm just happy that Apple is still in business and that they've found a new way (music) to make lots of cash. I fear, however, that the music scene is going to go the way of MS and their "standards." We can rest assured that Windows will probably remain in the dark ages until technology forces MS to ditch DOS for something with a higher rate of evolution like, say... UNIX... until then we'll enjoy OS superiority albeit in small but satisfied numbers - john.
 
Sorry, but at least NT 4, 2000, XP and higher aren't running under DOS any more. Yep, Windows 3.1 to Win ME DID run on DOS, but in 2000 and above, the command prompt is running in emulation. You can still boot into DOS when Windows gets hosed(at least once a year ;)), but that doesn't mean that it's still running under DOS all the time.

The black text that scrolls by when a PC is starting isn't DOS, but is the BIOS loading.
The difference with a Mac is it doesn't show all this stuff as it's loading it.

NT and above have something called a boot loader which starts up Windows, where the kernel runs in it's own memory space.

Also, DOS is 16 bit whereas NT and up is 32 bit. Win98 was 32 bit as well, but I don't know how they got around the 16 bit DOS to get that to work.

Now this is getting off topic, but I have to say that it's not true that it's still running under DOS.

I am by no means a Windows weanie, but I still do know about how it works.
 
Read http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/longhorn_4051_04_ue.asp

What an idiot... Microsoft and "user experience" in the same sentence. The only "user experience" Microsoft is promoting is one of gouging the customer and providing them a substandard GUI heavy laden with proprietary MS technologies, all designed to keep you on the MS subscription plan.


Oh, and the "aero" look and feel that this writer opines about? It's the ugliest p.o.s. I've ever seen. It makes Luna look like art it is so bad.

Some Windows evangelists are just oblivious....
 
That WinSuperSite is crap. I was reading that site before I even purchased my PowerBook and knew it was crap. However I do believe that Longhorn will be better than XP, the .NET foundation will be nice and the database-based filesystem will be interesting (though possibly overkill?). I'm sure when it comes out I'll "try-it-out" on my PCs. But by the time it comes out, they'll probably be on Virtual PC 9 and it will work well enough that I'll be able to sell my PCs. :)

I was also under the impression that Longorn was going to be a NEW OS... not just a rewrite/upgraded version of XP. I don't know for sure and I haven't found any useful site that discusses the features of it but I thought I read that somewhere. I guess we'll find out.

And no, WinNT, 2000, and XP do not run on DOS. :)


*Edited because poor spelling does not make me look smart. :) *
 
Sometimes it's hard to tell if someone really prefers something or if they're just writing out of journalistic bias.
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They have to be a journalist to have journalistic bias. And many/most blog/websites aren't trained journalists. They're just biased.

With LH so far away, this thread is a bit silly. Who knows what the final version will be. But many windows people will scoop it up just because they've been trained not to know any better.
 
If you publish something that people read, you're a journalist, unofficially or not. And that means you can have journalistic bias.

BTW, what's wrong with a little off-topicness every once in a while? :)
 
If you publish something that people read, you're a journalist, unofficially or not. And that means you can have journalistic bias.
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So you're a journalist by posting on this thread? Even if you've reported something of a newsworthy interest? No. You could be called a pundit or a writer or having made a commentary but that doesn't make you a journalist.
Some very good journalism can be found on the web, but that doesn't make everything you read from a website new. Hence they can have a bias.
And I see nothing wrong with off-topic discussions here and there. ::angel::
 
My feelings are the MAC OSX and winblows Xp or new are two separate user experiences. Speaking for myself, I find windows over done and simplified. I would get bored easily on XP or any future version. Longhorn, the little I know about appears to be over done. Many of my PC friends criticized OSX, saying it looked to "Cartoonish", and the genie effect, etc are kiddy toys.
There attitudes have changed toward M$, they feel that Windows is becoming over done, taking good features and beating them to death. The XP GUI is like "teeny bubble gum" theme in their opinions. Moreover, they feel that some Unix core is the future of Operating Systems.
As my generation turns thirty and grows up, we find ourselves more into stability and getting the most out of our money. They have quickly outgrown their PCs, and in fact have bought two to my one Mac. XP, as well as OSX are a heavy burden on the system resources, My G4 has been through OS9-current and still plugging. They purchased new PCs to keep up with M$ technology. Although they may never buy a Mac, they are starting to see the differences, "or see the light."
Just my .02$ :)
 
I wish we had a brushed metal interface. That would be neat.

Its funny, now I like the brushed metal Finder, but the one feature that a ton of Mac users claimed was horrible and ugly is what Microsoft decides to emulate.
 
FrgMstr said:
I dont see how you can say they are even behind Apple let alone 4 years. Apples security has been shown to be such a joke recently. If Apple had as many people trying to exploit it as MS does, we would all see they have just as many holes if not more than MS.

Apples security is based on obscurity im afraid.
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Let's see now, how many viruses have been released targeted at OS X? Oh, that's right zero, none, zip.

MDA
 
I just want to add my 2 cents in (since I'm at work and I don't have anything better to do :)) It's funny how many windows users flame me for using OS X. At least once a day I hear "get a real computer" and "at least I can use a two button mouse" That's just them living in the past. Sure Mac OS 9.x sucks (IMO :)) But it seems like MS and Apple have switched places. Back in the day windows was more geared towards "power users" with DOS and programming tools while Apple just kept it simple. Now times have changed and it's OS X that is more geared towards "power users" (hence the BSD core) and the multiple programming options. While MS is making there OS just simple. Just point and click. Lets take a look at the last 10 years. People have been trying to learn Windows for a while now. And really it's not there fault. You go to a computer store most likely it's going to have a operating system on it. And there's a good 90% chance that it's going to have Windows preinstalled (monopoly at it's best) now people dislike change. If it just works then don't fix it. Most people are really not going to take the time/money to learn a new operating system. Despite now much better it is. Hell I have a G3 500mhz iBook2 dual booted with Gentoo linux and OS X 10.3 and it's about 4 years old and it STILL out performs my friends 2-3 year laptops. My point is people will stick with what they know but one day they are going to get fed up for paying $200.00 for software that they are renting from some company that can't get it right the first time.


Which is also why I say boycott Lindows. It give the open source community a bad name. It also give MS users a bad impression on Linux.
 
Some new builds of Longhorn have been send out to various German comuter magazines. c't (computer & technique). c't is one of the most professional and reliable german magazine, IMHO.

The new DirectX 9 effects and the "Aero Glass" UI system could be enabled in the current longhorn build by typing "%windir%\i386\sbctl start" in the command line.
The downside is, you need at least a 3GHz x86 CPU or else the the UI behaviour with enabled dx9 effects is really sluggish. I just have to add the current build is still a design study. There are a lot of missing UI elements, blank spaces, huge useless symbols etc.. It seems the developers aren't to sure in which direction they should be heading.

The added sidebar isn't a bad idea (you know it, the one with the clock already seen in screenshots of previous builds). One function of it is that it collects different information of the whole Longhorn system and displays it. But it is a huge space waster. An better idea would be to overlay the desktop and stay in the background, like the "samurize" app for windows or this shareware app for OSX (can't remember its name). That would rock.

I like the idea of the "jade" UI Theme. Small non obstructive buttons, no color which makes my eyes bleed. Generally I like the dark look and the contrast of the latest Longhorn builds. Its a nice change of the lolly pop default Win XP theme (who created this still needs his eyes gouged out in hell for eternity)

WinFS file system services are already working, but searching for files and certain criteria is still utterly broken, so basically the functionality of this "feature" is low or its still unusable. Something I don't like about MS is if they don't want the users to access advanced features the burry it in a maze of submenues/options, so according to c't magazine, enabling the old search is a pain in the a**.

To sum it up even the current build of Longhorn even with its dx9 effects is nothing more than a beefed up WinXP and still has a long way to go...

I agree with some options in this forum, some old, blooded things should be dropped to gain more stability or better performance. But I don't believe the current Windows command line has much to do with the original DOS. Its just the case the command prompt uses the same syntax as the old DOS applications/commands so that people don't have get used to new commands after years of Win9x and DOS.
 
I can say I'm honestly excited about Longhorn (assuming it will be able to run on my 800MHz AMD Duron :p).

I fix and build x86 PCs for a living, so I'll get heavily surrounded by this new OS, and would love to have a go at driving it for an hour or so.


One thing that I'm really starting to be offended by, though, is its current FLAGRANT ripping from OSX. I usually am skeptical when people accuse something of being a copy, particularly seeing as I know how Mac users can be sometimes (I am, afterall, one of them)... but I don't at all like how the Slate theme mimics the brushed metal theme almost to a tee (the dark UI with the middle of the window being the lightest point in a horizontal gradient), and the way the UI of IE has almost entirely MORPHED into Safari.

I must say, thought, that whomever badmouthed Aero previously hasn't been reading up on it.

Aero could be something that Aqua will aspire to be - it is said to be wholly customisable, all natively (with no Windowblinds or any of the like). In the end, I can smell Aero being fully capable of reproducing the OSX Aqua interface - only with more customisability. Avalon, the Quartz Extreme equivalent, still has an incredibly long way to go, but the promises made about it are incredible, and the entire nature of the OS might change.

In the end, the user experience of Longhorn will not really resemble Windows as it stands today, XP or otherwise. Rather, it'll seem like one of the wild things people use in Sci-Fi movies. It'll seem fluid, and very... new.

I'm very excited about Longhorn, and just as excited to see what happens in the Mac world in the fifty-seven years leading up to its release. :p.
 
texanpenguin said:
I can say I'm honestly excited about Longhorn (assuming it will be able to run on my 800MHz AMD Duron :p).

I fix and build x86 PCs for a living, so I'll get heavily surrounded by this new OS, and would love to have a go at driving it for an hour or so.


One thing that I'm really starting to be offended by, though, is its current FLAGRANT ripping from OSX. I usually am skeptical when people accuse something of being a copy, particularly seeing as I know how Mac users can be sometimes (I am, afterall, one of them)... but I don't at all like how the Slate theme mimics the brushed metal theme almost to a tee (the dark UI with the middle of the window being the lightest point in a horizontal gradient), and the way the UI of IE has almost entirely MORPHED into Safari.

I must say, thought, that whomever badmouthed Aero previously hasn't been reading up on it.

Aero could be something that Aqua will aspire to be - it is said to be wholly customisable, all natively (with no Windowblinds or any of the like). In the end, I can smell Aero being fully capable of reproducing the OSX Aqua interface - only with more customisability. Avalon, the Quartz Extreme equivalent, still has an incredibly long way to go, but the promises made about it are incredible, and the entire nature of the OS might change.

In the end, the user experience of Longhorn will not really resemble Windows as it stands today, XP or otherwise. Rather, it'll seem like one of the wild things people use in Sci-Fi movies. It'll seem fluid, and very... new.

I'm very excited about Longhorn, and just as excited to see what happens in the Mac world in the fifty-seven years leading up to its release. :p.
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I forgot about this thread...........in my previous posts I may sound a little stubborn. I was just getting used to OS X then and was against anything made by microsoft ( well, for the most part I still am, but ya know). Anyway, I am actually anxious to see what they can do, I'm sure anybody would be. In the current situation though, I think you'd most definately have to say OS X Panther is way ahead of XP, and when Tiger comes sometimes in the not to distant future, its just going to widen the gap some more. I'm afraid by the time longhorn comes out, its possible we could already be ahead. One can never tell these things though, we'll have to wait and see :)
 
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