Megahertz Myth...
- Thread starter Jason
- Start date
hulkaros
The Incredible...
-Still the Dull has NO 64 bit PCI slots
-No Firewire ports (as for USB2 I think that it is a 6x USB2 ports but anyways the problem is that if one cares about Firewire to use for DV, iPod, etc. he/she MUST add to the cost of the Dull the Firewire ports, so you see it is not really which is faster or which you prefer... Also, the USB1 ports on the PowerMac are 4 (2 box/2 keyboard)
-While in the keyboard area, don't even compare the quality of PowerMac's keyboard VS the Dull's... Dull's is el cheapo to say the the least
-No built-in Wireless network for Dull
-No space inside the box to go with 4 internal hard disks
-No matter how much video ram the Dull's graphics have, still cannot offer basic dual monitor support (DVI is out of the question too)
-Also, NO MATTER how fast the single P4 system can be, when you will load apps and stuff it will not be able to multitask as good as the Dual G4...
-The Dull has 10/100 network while PowerMac has 10/100/1000
-The awesome mini tower of the PowerMac cannot be touched by the poorly-designed Dull's box... And no I'm not talking about the outside but the inside as well: Opening the box, install/uninstall ANYTHING you want is a snap!
-The Dull cannot have what Macs can have: OS X.x.x, its iApps and in general the quality in every single area...
I don't know about you guys but quality to me matters... That's why I use a Plextor CD-RW and not that HowWasThatBrandsNameOfYours?
solrac
Mac Ninja
Hulkaros, still with everything you say, an equally equipped Dell (for the most part) is much cheaper than a mac.
What you prove though, is that Apple still has enough awesome stuff to very well sell a powermac over a Dell. You'd be a great apple salesman! But you cannot deny that we pay a premium for apple.
I'm about to pay a big premium getting that 17" laptop!!!! (I'm still aching about giving up $3200 + tax very soon!!)
What you prove though, is that Apple still has enough awesome stuff to very well sell a powermac over a Dell. You'd be a great apple salesman! But you cannot deny that we pay a premium for apple.
I'm about to pay a big premium getting that 17" laptop!!!! (I'm still aching about giving up $3200 + tax very soon!!)
Just a couple of comments...
"-No Firewire ports (as for USB2 I think that it is a 6x USB2 ports but anyways the problem is that if one cares about Firewire to use for DV, iPod, etc. he/she MUST add to the cost of the Dull the Firewire ports, so you see it is not really which is faster or which you prefer... Also, the USB1 ports on the PowerMac are 4 (2 box/2 keyboard)"
True, if you use Firewire for something, splash on another 20 bucks for a Firewire card. And it's 8 ports, 2 front, 6 back.
"-No built-in Wireless network for Dull"
Erm, no airport for the Mac either, unless you add on the price of an airport card... (Not included)
"-No matter how much video ram the Dull's graphics have, still cannot offer basic dual monitor support"
? The GeForce MX certainly supports dual monitors. As for the VRAM, the 32 MB model of the MX isn't even listed on Nvidia's product page - where do they dig that stuff up? It sure shouldn't be in a pro machine for chrissakes! Apple should stop being cheapos and at least start putting the 64 MB version in as standard.
Regards / GulGnu
-Stabil som fan!
"-No Firewire ports (as for USB2 I think that it is a 6x USB2 ports but anyways the problem is that if one cares about Firewire to use for DV, iPod, etc. he/she MUST add to the cost of the Dull the Firewire ports, so you see it is not really which is faster or which you prefer... Also, the USB1 ports on the PowerMac are 4 (2 box/2 keyboard)"
True, if you use Firewire for something, splash on another 20 bucks for a Firewire card. And it's 8 ports, 2 front, 6 back.
"-No built-in Wireless network for Dull"
Erm, no airport for the Mac either, unless you add on the price of an airport card... (Not included)
"-No matter how much video ram the Dull's graphics have, still cannot offer basic dual monitor support"
? The GeForce MX certainly supports dual monitors. As for the VRAM, the 32 MB model of the MX isn't even listed on Nvidia's product page - where do they dig that stuff up? It sure shouldn't be in a pro machine for chrissakes! Apple should stop being cheapos and at least start putting the 64 MB version in as standard.
Regards / GulGnu
-Stabil som fan!
Cat
Registered
In the end I think we can all agree to this:
"An equally equipped Dell is cheaper than a 'power'Mac, but Apple still has enough awesome stuff (HW features like Hulkaros said, OS X & iApps, quality & design) to sell a 'power'Mac over a Dell, even if the 'power'Mac is overpriced"
... and so they lived happily on for ever after!
"An equally equipped Dell is cheaper than a 'power'Mac, but Apple still has enough awesome stuff (HW features like Hulkaros said, OS X & iApps, quality & design) to sell a 'power'Mac over a Dell, even if the 'power'Mac is overpriced"
... and so they lived happily on for ever after!
sheepguy42
AFOL
All current Macs have built-in Airport antennas and a spot for the Airport Card. I doubt the Dull has such already-there support for wireless networking; the best it can do is either an external device through ethernet (I assume that Dulls currently come with ethernet standard, but probably not g-bit) or an internal PCI-slot-style setup.
As far as the graphics card is concerned, why would Apple have the 64 Meg GeForce card and a 64 Meg ATI? Nobody would get the ATI, even though it is probably better in other ways than the GeForce MX. The idea, I think, is to have tiers of performance. Since Apple only has 2 brands of Graphics Cards, and they have 4 configurations, they decided to have 3 Graphics memory Tiers to go along with it. That way they can better justify the price difference, and make it easier to choose a system rather than saying "well, that one's only a couple hundred more, maybe I should go with the better machine, but is it really that much better?" This way, it is clear that each machine is better than the last simply from the price, and they need the features to back that up.
hulkaros
The Incredible...
Well, yes we pay some more for Macs but isn't the same with electronic products out there? For example I can buy an uknown TV out there but I'm sure that I would not get the quality of Sony, Philips, et al now, would I?
The same holds true with other Wintel companies... You can go on and buy a Dull but for sure you don't get the quality that you can get by building a custom PC with high quality parts (a tower box for example with 400 Watt power suply with fans for air flow and shield for radio waves, etc).
Maybe Dull sells a lot but am I the only one who sees cheap quality at their parts? Even the high end desktop/consumer boxes aren't THAT good...
Solrac, I hope that you will enjoy your 17" PB as much as possible but something tells me that you will ANYWAYS
hulkaros
The Incredible...
I think that Sheepguy42 said some nice things but I would also like to fill in some facts...
What I meant about the built-in wireless support is that it is there and if you want you just install an Airport and that's all... While on the Dull you don't have such a built-in capability.
As for Firewire it isn't a matter of JUST add a Firewire card and I think that anyone out there who tried it (especially with different Windows versions) he/she knows already that it isn't THAT easy and/or compatible with apps and hardware in general while on the Mac you just plug a firewire device and play with it
Also, MANY tech persons out there fail to mention to a possible USB2 consumer that the USB2 is actually slower than Firewire400 while one connects to his/her computer more than one devices to it As for Geforce MX on Dull you get a plain VGA output (no DVI connector) and just a TV out (no actual dual monitor use... While on the Mac I can connect a 17" Apple Display and any other >15" DVI monitor out there and have a real dual display capabily (mirroring & extended desktop). Once you use such a config you will ask to yourself how come and you didn't had this trick before? And you know why? Because you didn't have a PowerMac before and you got yourself a Dull, that's why (I'm talking in general here and not actually YOU
)... As for video RAM 32MB versus 64MB: You know what? Customize you PowerMac for 64MB But then again have you used a Dual PowerMac and found it slow in graphics? Maybe in games but then again why did you buy a Mac for games? He, he!As for all the previous things that I mentioned that the Dull lacks? Can you actually buy them? And if you do: How much money would you pay for them? For example if you want more than 2 hard disks you cannot have it with Dull... You MUST buy another box: So no Dull for this, too! You know what? I think in the end the Dual G4/867 is A LOT cheaper than the Dull wither we like to admit it or not...
Now, if ANYONE don't want or need to pay for things that the PMac has already simply because they are more than one will ever use it is actually simple: Buy an iMac, a PowerBook, an eMac, an iBook but hey don't you buy a Wintel... And if you do, don't say I didn't warn you for future harm in your peace of mind AND pocket
hulkaros
The Incredible...
Originally posted by stealth
he he he
actually the hulk does sell apple computers here in Greece. and hes damn good at it ... but
can get rather annoyin sumtimez
Hulkaros will smash puny Stealth once and for all...
Back to human form: I know that my alter ego isn't THAT smart but hey, what's your excuse Stealth?
How come and you tell to people that I show hate towards the Dark Side? I LOVE the Dark Side... If it wasn't the Dark Side I wouldn't know if I'm Jedi or Sith! So, you see, I actually want them to exist! Well, this and also the fact thay they help me with their problematic nature of their products buy those sweet Apple products!
Note to new people of this forum: I work as a PC/Mac tech person and guess what? I earn 70%-80% of my money by fixing problematic products coming from the Dark Side... And not the other 20%-30% isn't from the Mac Side (I work as a computer teacher as well but unfortunately not in a Mac school
) only!Anyways, I like the Dark Side...
because they help me live in the Mac Side of the Force
hulkaros
The Incredible...
Originally posted by stealth
stealth will kick ur ass.
i am the ONE .
im better than onslaught or apocalypse u loser!!!
im better than Neo or YuLaw.
im better than Yoda and Anakin.
and im gettin a PowerBook.
get ready u loser
-Stealth... Kick your ass because mine is too strong for you...
-You are the ONE who will lose a fight against Hulkaros with only a punch
-Probably you don't know know that Apocalypse could not even touch Onslaught... As for Onslaught guess who beat the crap out of him? Yep! Me, the old mean, green, fighting machine...
-Neo and YuLaw together can pick a fight... With R2D2 from Star Wars and then again guess what? They will lose the fight because R2D2 is smarter than both of them
-Yoda and Anakin don't even live while I enjoy beating losers such as yourself
-Guess what? I'm having already a great PowerBook
-I'm always ready! Are you?
jeb1138
Carioca
Are you certain about your certainty regarding the certain support of dual monitors for certain Dell workstations? I certainly wouldn't attach the word certain to any less-than-certain statement which would certainly jeopardize my trustworthiness if I happend to be certainly wrong. Then again, that's certainly just my opinion.
In my opinion, however, you should certainly check out the Dell webpage and see for yourself that Dell's GeForce MX certainly does not support dual displays:
http://www.dell.com/us/en/dhs/learnmore/learnmore_gfx_cards_trans_desktops_popup_dimen.htm?ref=CFG
Geez! I don't know where in the beejeebees Dell pulls this junk out of the gutter! No DVI and no dual monitor support???? And NVidia's webpage even says the MX has multi-monitor support! What is this, land-o-trash and dullness??
I'm just playing wit' ya with all the sarcasm & etc., of course.
But I'm pretty sure everything I said is true -- check it out for yourself to see. Of course, I certainly could be wrong. Nvidia's page doesn't talk about specs for specific card models, as far as I can see. Remember -- they supply a lot of chips & etc. for 3rd parties who make their own cards. What they do talk about on their product page for the MX (http://nvidia.com/view.asp?PAGE=geforce4mx) are the potential capabilities of how different Nvidia processors and their chipsets can be implemented according to the card makers' desires. Nvidia's page clearly states: Maximum Memory: 64MB. Whether 32MB is really enough is another topic altogether, and the statement "the 32 MB model of the MX isn't even listed on Nvidia's product page - where do they dig that stuff up?" isn't accurate at all.
jeb1138
Carioca
Here's what I came up with configuring a 2.0GHz P4 from Dell's site:
(or check out the screenshot here: http://homepage.mac.com/jeb1138/.Pictures/DellP4.jpg)
- P4 2.0GHz, 400MHz FSB, 512K L2 Cache, No L3 Cache.
- 256MB DDR SDRAM
- No Monitor
- 64 MB DDR Nvidia GeForce4 MX, TV-out, no DVI, no Dual-monitor
- 60 GB Ultra ATA/100 7200RPM HD
- WinXP Professional
- Optical Mouse (2 buttons!)
- 10/100 Ethernet
- 32/10/40 Combo Drive
- Integrated Audio
- 2 speakers
- WordPerfect Productivity Pack w/ Quicken New User Edition
- Dell Jukebox Premium
- Dell Picture Studio, Image Exper Premium
- 1 Year Limited Warranty + 1 year at-home service
- 6 months AOL (Yee-hah!!!)
- Belkin Surgemaster
- Dell Movie Studio Plus
Then throw in $60 for a good-priced decent Gigabit Ethernet card (http://shop3.outpost.com/product/3052919) for your professional work environment and $40 for a good-priced decent Firewire card (http://shop3.outpost.com/product/2854614) so you can make cute, priceless and worthless() videos of last year's summer vacation and have fast external hard drives.
TOTAL PRICE: $1467
Now if you add in a wireless PCI card (but not into the price total since it would cost around what an Airport card would cost) you realize that suddenly you've eaten up 3 of your expansion slots to get even with the Mac.
$1467 is definitely close enough to the $1699 for the dual 867 to make me get the dual 867. I mean, all factors included -- like the dual 867 is a Mac and runs OS X -- I would definitely go for the Mac.
And finally remember that you are comparing a Mac to the low-price leader (Dell) of computers. That's not an excuse for Apple to charge more, but remember that Apple would probably do even better compared to a Gateway or HP. Anybody care to try it out? I'm too tired right now.
Yeah, I still think Apple really needs to get on the speedbump wagon in their pro desktop line and really hope they are doing something about that, but still, the price/performance gap isn't 'deadly' now. Ummm...well...hopefully not at least.
(or check out the screenshot here: http://homepage.mac.com/jeb1138/.Pictures/DellP4.jpg)
- P4 2.0GHz, 400MHz FSB, 512K L2 Cache, No L3 Cache.
- 256MB DDR SDRAM
- No Monitor
- 64 MB DDR Nvidia GeForce4 MX, TV-out, no DVI, no Dual-monitor
- 60 GB Ultra ATA/100 7200RPM HD
- WinXP Professional
- Optical Mouse (2 buttons!
)- 10/100 Ethernet
- 32/10/40 Combo Drive
- Integrated Audio
- 2 speakers
- WordPerfect Productivity Pack w/ Quicken New User Edition
- Dell Jukebox Premium
- Dell Picture Studio, Image Exper Premium
- 1 Year Limited Warranty + 1 year at-home service
- 6 months AOL (Yee-hah!!!
)- Belkin Surgemaster
- Dell Movie Studio Plus
Then throw in $60 for a good-priced decent Gigabit Ethernet card (http://shop3.outpost.com/product/3052919) for your professional work environment and $40 for a good-priced decent Firewire card (http://shop3.outpost.com/product/2854614) so you can make cute, priceless and worthless(
) videos of last year's summer vacation and have fast external hard drives.TOTAL PRICE: $1467
Now if you add in a wireless PCI card (but not into the price total since it would cost around what an Airport card would cost) you realize that suddenly you've eaten up 3 of your expansion slots to get even with the Mac.
$1467 is definitely close enough to the $1699 for the dual 867 to make me get the dual 867. I mean, all factors included -- like the dual 867 is a Mac and runs OS X
-- I would definitely go for the Mac.And finally remember that you are comparing a Mac to the low-price leader (Dell) of computers. That's not an excuse for Apple to charge more, but remember that Apple would probably do even better compared to a Gateway or HP. Anybody care to try it out? I'm too tired right now.
Yeah, I still think Apple really needs to get on the speedbump wagon in their pro desktop line and really hope they are doing something about that, but still, the price/performance gap isn't 'deadly' now. Ummm...well...hopefully not at least.
Also, a P4 2.0 GHz is kind of an old machine.
I'm a bit tired of this age-old debate now. I've long come to the conclusion that, maybe sadly, I can't really work with a Windows PC. I'm faster with a Mac, even with my eons-old TiBook 500. The PC could come for free and have an 8 GHz processor, and I would take it and use it for DivX and Games (although I don't play games, but what the heck, if it's free...), but I'd still replace my PowerBook with a PowerBook.
I'm a bit tired of this age-old debate now. I've long come to the conclusion that, maybe sadly, I can't really work with a Windows PC. I'm faster with a Mac, even with my eons-old TiBook 500. The PC could come for free and have an 8 GHz processor, and I would take it and use it for DivX and Games (although I don't play games, but what the heck, if it's free...), but I'd still replace my PowerBook with a PowerBook.