Neil Armstrong not first on the moon?

Zammy-Sam

Desertchild
This might be old news, but since I was in Croatia for 3 weeks, I have no clue.
I saw a report on tv that the whole story and all records from Neil Armstrong stepping as the first human on the moon was all fake. All records were faked. :eek:
This is really something, if it is right. Can anyone corfirm this?? It really shocked me when I heard this :(
 
Definitely, all fake, the moon shots coming now also. Steve is filming all this at Pixar and the gov is telling us a Lunar landing occurred. :)
 
If you choose to believe the conspiracy theorists. The theory is that it was all filmed and faked just so we could 'Beat' the russians in the space race.
 
Well, the fact that space travel by both Russia and the US pretty much stopped pushing to new boundaries when the US landed on the moon, it isn't surprising that the conspiracy theorists claim it was faked... as it would be an excellent way to kill another country's space program to beat them to what you think their current goal was.

On the other hand, the US was overzealous in trying to beat the Russians who's plan was to use a space station as a launching point for a moon mission. The US on the other hand, pushed towards very big launch vehicles to start a moon mission. You will notice that Russia was the only one to get a space station up in space for more than a month before ISS.

There are just some people who claim to use logic to 'debunk' the moon landings because they feel that it doesn't look right... but at the same time, I can walk into a Target and feel like I am in a Target 10 miles away and be surprised when things aren't in the same place! While the laws of physics work the same on the moon, other things work differently, and so we cannot apply cold logic on the situation like the conspiracy theorists have done. There are pages that debunk the 'debunking'.

For example, the claim that the flag should not have been waving on the moon has been debunked a couple of times... and one reason I see for it waving is the fact that someone was holding onto the pole and moving the pole around... that creates a waving-like motion without wind needed.
 
The moon landings were not faked.
This page lists the common "arguments" the hoax theorists use, and the reasons why.

http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/News/2001/News-MoonLanding.asp

Why is it people love to doubt the moon landings, but don't question, oh say, the discovery of DNA? Or X-rays? Why not allege every X-Ray ever taken is a fake? Or why not suggest we've never visited the ocean floor, or the north pole?

If we faked the landings, why haven't the Russians done what they could to discredit us? They were our #1 competitors in that effort.

This is one of my few irrational super-hot-button issues. Breathe deep, 1, 2 3...
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
 
Trip, you have the right to believe what you like.

I will need to absent myself from this discussion; I can't help but take it personally. Any further comments I'd be likely to make would probably get me ejected from the board.

Should we ever meet in person, let's steer away from this topic.
 
How could you take this personally? I believe the government is lying, you don't.

Does it really matter?
 
Why do everybody think this is fake? I could list the peoples name that have died in the name of space travel (from all nations). There are way better conspiracy theories to try to prove. This REALLY HAPPENED!!!! Buy a telescope and look for yourself!!!:mad:
 
TRIP: Ok, you asked for it.

First, most of the people who try to dispute the landings attempt to do so using 3rd-grade science and less than a day's research. One day they saw something about the moon landing, spent half an hour thinking about it, and decided to spout off about how they didn't believe it. Just for kicks, just because its fashionable today to disbelieve in things, they decide to insult the legions of true scientific pioneers who took us to the Moon. These scientific dilettantes make me sick. And furious.

I have scoured the internet for the source of this quote and come up empty, but I think it was some famous philosopher who said "The moment you realize you know nothing, Is the moment you truly begin to learn." It is an act of utter hubris to imagine that an hour, a day, or a week of sniffing through websites qualifies you to pass judgment on the greatest scientific accomplishment of all time.

Not everyone approaches their 'disbelief' that 'dash-of-bad-science' way, but enough do. Every single one of their 'scientific' attacks - with absolutely no exceptions however small - can be punctured by proper research. There is zero scientific foundation for assailing the truth of the Apollo program.

I'd also like to point out that it is only fairly recently, in this age where extreme cynicism has become chic and cool, that there has been any real widespread debate over the ironclad truth of the program. There have been disbelievers before, but nobody took them seriously.

This brings me to the second reason. For you, Apollo is history. Hell, you were born the year I graduated high school. It's easy for YOU to disbelieve, it's just writing on a history book page. It was different for those of us who lived through it. At the tender age of 1 year, I watched the Apollo 11 landing on TV. I don't remember that specific night too clearly, but of course, the Apollo program continued for several years after 1969, and I do recall the later missions clearly. What I recall most vividly is the excitement, the wonder, the thrill. Forget Santa Claus, forget Christmas presents, the easter bunny, my birthday - THIS was the greatest thing I had ever heard about or seen -- and furthermore, it was REAL. There was never a later, reluctant admission from my parents that it was all a pretty fiction made up to thrill people - it ACTUALLY happened. For visceral, emotional thrill, nothing, absolutely nothing has ever come close.

That's why I take it very, very personally.

And I'm not the only one. Most of the Apollo astronauts, Armstrong included, are still alive - but they are old men with NO motive to keep up a sham. They no longer work for the government. They have nothing to lose. Yet not only do they NOT refute the Apollo program, most of them freely donate their time to promoting the US space program - MANNED space program. Also, they often gladly help writers, filmmakers, etc. create works about Apollo.

Why would they do that? Can you imagine the money any one of them could make if instead, they fed the media a story about how the whole thing was crap? Imagine! And don't feed me some BS about them keeping up the fiction out of fear: what's the government going to do, have them 'hit' ? That'd look a bit fishy, eh? "Armstrong says moon mission faked, dies mysteriously next day."

And the astronauts themselves are only the tip of the iceberg. There are thousands of Apollo veterans, from engineers, to Mission Control personnel, geologists, and literal "rocket scientists" who are still very much alive and are living proof of the program. Not one of them has come forward to 'debunk' the program.

The science is all there; the math all works out. If Apollo is scientifically unsound, then you'd better not get on another plane, or cross another suspension bridge. The same physics that keeps our world running did - **DID** take us to the moon.

Before you take on giants (meaning the actual scientists, not me) make sure you have more than a ball of fluff in your sling.
 
The Apollo mission most likly DID occur. Neil and his compain were the first people to tuch the lunar surface and *come back. All the proof I need to come to that asumption is the boosters they used to get them there. They were one-time-use only, big, exitingly chunky looking ( :) ), and could be **interplanetary. They have sence been ditched for something that is reusable, safer, but also slightly less ***powerfull. Why would they build something like the boosters they used back then (plus all thath money spent on it) if they were just for launching to make it look like they had made it to the moon.

*There was a Soviet capsule the crashed, and killed it's one passanger on the darkside of the moon. I'm not sure of the date, but if it's before Neil got there, then the Soviet person might count as being the first person on the moon.
**The booster for the Apollo mission was capabal of completly brakeing away from our planet's orbit, and if they managed to line it up right with the trigectorys, could be used to reach different planet.Getting back would be another problem though.
***The current set of boosters that NASA uses is much safer then the Apollo ones, but are only capabal of reaching a (low?) orbit. They can't even reach the moon curently. The folks at nasa will have to design some new ones of bush's plan to reach mars is ever going to become a reality.
 
Trillian: Interesting. And your statements about the current state of our launch capability are, sadly, true.

But then, if the Russians crashed Cosmonauts on the Moon, why would they have kept it secret? Surely, even getting that far is worth bragging about, nationally anyway.

I receive 2 space magazines regularly. Based on the accounts that I read there by Russian scientists, they never worked the bugs out of their rocket -- their equivalent of the Saturn V.
 
What I don't get is: if we did indeed land on the moon, then why have we not done anything about it yet? If we have the technology to get up there and look around and stuff why are we not trying to see what can be done up there? Maybe we could build a lab up there and test animals or whatnot. Why not do anything about the fact WE CAN go to the moon? Or was the whole purpose just to say we can.

Oh and: if this doesn't make any sense you'll have to excuse me...I just woke up from a nap.
 
Trip: Apparently President Bush feels the same way... Much as I dislike him, his new initiative is amazing.

It is many MANY times more expenive to send humans into space than robots. And, many argue - not entirely without some validity - the money may be better spent elsewhere.

But frankly, I and many others feel as you do: why did we stop? Why aren't we up there now?

There are at least two space advocacy organizations you can join, both full of people who are wondering the same thing:

The Planetary Society (www.planetary.org)
The National Space Society (www.nss.org)

The former's web site is aimed more at kids, but it's still good. Each publishes an excellent magazine about space exploration.
 
The only problem I see is this, if Bush wants us to push back out into space... then why has he been cutting NASA's budget in his proposals since 2001?
 
if Bush wants us to push back out into space... then why has he been cutting NASA's budget in his proposals since 2001?

I'm guessing he thinks that switching gears on that issue will win him votes.
 
Well, there you have it. If people start complaining it's because we haven't done anything after we did land on the moon. So it doesn't seem like we really went, or if we did it wasn't a big success or anything.

But you guys proved me wrong. Hopefully other people will see it how it is too.
 
It is amazing that many Americans, and a majority of people on this board it seems, weren't even born until well after the final lunar mission. So to them, a man on the moon is as sci-fi as Star Wars.
But, imho, it also shows a laziness and lack of desire on their part to learn the facts rather than spreading rumors long debunked. Heck, just go to about any news website these days and you'll find plenty of stories on space exploration and new plans to re-explore manned spaceflight.
Trip asked why not go to the moon? Why? Just about everything's been done there unless it's in preparation for a Mars landing. Science can be done cheaper and better in zero g (the moon does have some gravity) like in the space station. A base would have no purpose because the moon doesn't have enough valuable material (not even cheese) on it.
It's funny that we're getting color photos from a robotic device on Mars (and more headed to Europa and other Jovian moons) and people are still trying to claim that Apollo was rigged.
But gee, the Flat Earth Society still exists.
 
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