New to Mac and need some help

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kwng

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Hi. I am new to Mac (totally new). I have got myself a Powerbook 520c from
car boot sale. It comes with 3.5" diskette drive and a few ports at the back which I am not familiar with. It has mouse (looks like ps2 mouse) but cannot fit into any of the ports and it comes with a cable that has a ps2 looked a like connector at both end. That's all. It boots up fine and it says system 7.1.
It does not a lot software. I only noticed Clariswork and a simple text editor
and some scheduling software. It does not have an internal or external CD drive.

I have a lot questions and currently I could not do much with the powerbook.
I only hope it will be able to connect to the internet for browsing but so far I was kind of disappointed. Some of the things I am keen to know is

1). Do I need to upgrade the OS to browse? If so, I do not know how and I do not have any Mac OS with me. Please advise on purchase or download.
I have Windows-based PC which can access internet and has diskette drive and DVD RW drives. I guessed the new Mac OS will not support this powerbook but how do I access the old ones.

2). This related to the first question. If I do not need to upgrade, how can I setup and access internet. Please advise on hardware and software. I do note
that it has MacWeb but I do not know how to setup the hardware. I am currently accessing internet through a cable modem (USB connection) through one of my PC. I had a ethernet hub which hooked up 2 more PCs (client). Do powerbook 520c support USB connection? I also need advice on how to setup the network connection (PPP? or ethernet?). In windows, the modem came with a software in CD which automatically setup everything.
If I do need to upgrade my OS then, I'll have to ask more questions later.

3). I need some advice on installing software from diskette and formatting it.
For windows, a diskette need to be formatted to FAT before they can be read from or write to. Do Mac has their own format? If so, how do format the 1.44mb diskette? Can Mac communicate with windows like Linux? I mean a cable connection to Windows and exchange files. Again about installation of software, in windows, setup is used and the files are placed at desktop and the rests are thrown into a directory and some into system32 directory, etc.
How about Mac? Is Mac like the older version of windows where one can copy the related files into a particular directory and then one can runs it already or does it uses setup like windows.

4). Is there any way, I can access Mac software in internet, download it to a windows formatted HD before transferring it to a diskette and finally to the powerbook for installation?

Thank you for your patience and sorry about the long thread.
 
First, here's the original specs for the PowerBook 520c which is a useful starting point:

http://apple-history.com/?page=gallery&model=520c&performa=off&sort=date&order=ASC

And here is lowendmac.com's specs page for this model, which outlines what you can and can't acheive with it. Very useful.

http://www.lowendmac.com/pb/520c.shtml

Yes, it does support Ethernet so you should be able to connect through an ethernet hub, and you shouldn't need to load up any drivers for the cable modem if you connect in this manner. No, it does not support USB as it predates USB by about two years.

It sounds like the ideal OS to run on this would be Mac OS 7.5.5 up to 7.6.1, which I believe you can download the updates for from http://www.info.apple.com/support/oldersoftwarelist.html

The diskette format is HFS+ I believe. I don't really know any tricks to get stuff onto the diskettes from PCs though, but I'm sure if you read some stuff here and at lowendmac.com you should find an answer soon.
 
kwng said:
Hi. I am new to Mac (totally new). I have got myself a Powerbook 520c from
car boot sale. It comes with 3.5" diskette drive and a few ports at the back which I am not familiar with. It has mouse (looks like ps2 mouse) but cannot fit into any of the ports and it comes with a cable that has a ps2 looked a like connector at both end. That's all. It boots up fine and it says system 7.1.
It does not a lot software. I only noticed Clariswork and a simple text editor
and some scheduling software. It does not have an internal or external CD drive.

I have a lot questions and currently I could not do much with the powerbook.
I only hope it will be able to connect to the internet for browsing but so far I was kind of disappointed. Some of the things I am keen to know is

1). Do I need to upgrade the OS to browse? If so, I do not know how and I do not have any Mac OS with me. Please advise on purchase or download.
I have Windows-based PC which can access internet and has diskette drive and DVD RW drives. I guessed the new Mac OS will not support this powerbook but how do I access the old ones.

2). This related to the first question. If I do not need to upgrade, how can I setup and access internet. Please advise on hardware and software. I do note
that it has MacWeb but I do not know how to setup the hardware. I am currently accessing internet through a cable modem (USB connection) through one of my PC. I had a ethernet hub which hooked up 2 more PCs (client). Do powerbook 520c support USB connection? I also need advice on how to setup the network connection (PPP? or ethernet?). In windows, the modem came with a software in CD which automatically setup everything.
If I do need to upgrade my OS then, I'll have to ask more questions later.

3). I need some advice on installing software from diskette and formatting it.
For windows, a diskette need to be formatted to FAT before they can be read from or write to. Do Mac has their own format? If so, how do format the 1.44mb diskette? Can Mac communicate with windows like Linux? I mean a cable connection to Windows and exchange files. Again about installation of software, in windows, setup is used and the files are placed at desktop and the rests are thrown into a directory and some into system32 directory, etc.
How about Mac? Is Mac like the older version of windows where one can copy the related files into a particular directory and then one can runs it already or does it uses setup like windows.

4). Is there any way, I can access Mac software in internet, download it to a windows formatted HD before transferring it to a diskette and finally to the powerbook for installation?

Thank you for your patience and sorry about the long thread.
Click to expand...

Wow, that's a pretty old system. Hope you don't judge the modern Mac experience based on a system from the early 1990s. ;)

1. I don't believe that Mac OS 7.1 came with Open Transport pre-installed. You'll have to install it yourself. I believe that Open Transport 1.2 will run on 7.1, but you'll probably have to install earlier versions first. You can find older Apple software downloads here: Older Software Downloads.

Note... Some files may span several floppy disks. Your Mac will be able to read PC formatted floppies, but you should double check to see what type of floppies it can read. Older Apple Hardware Specs.

2. You won't be supporting USB on that OS. If the Mac has an ethernet port on it, you'll be able to connect via the hub you spoke of. Once Open Transport is installed configure it to connect via the TCP/IP control panel. Set it to connect via ethernet and then you can either manually configure the IP settings or have it DHCP (if your network supports that).

3. Mac OS 7.1 uses the HFS file system, but it can read PC formatted floppies (at least as I recall). Generally, Mac applications are self contained. You simply drag them to where you want them to reside on the hard disk and then double click on them to open them. A good place to look for applications is Version Tracker. Just make sure you search for Mac OS 8/9 applications (should work with system 7, but no guarantees!)

4. I don't recall if there are any software solutions to allow your Mac OS 7.1 machine to communicate with a windows network. There may be, but I simply don't remember it. If you can get your PC to communicate via AppleTalk, you should be able to get the two machines to talk.

As far as a web browser is concerned, you may be able to find an early version of Netscape to work, or possibly Mosiac? If you need telnet or ssh, I suggest NiftyTelnet.
 
kwng said:
Hi. I am new to Mac (totally new). I have got myself a Powerbook 520c from
car boot sale. It comes with 3.5" diskette drive and a few ports at the back which I am not familiar with. It has mouse (looks like ps2 mouse) but cannot fit into any of the ports and it comes with a cable that has a ps2 looked a like connector at both end. That's all. It boots up fine and it says system 7.1.
It does not a lot software. I only noticed Clariswork and a simple text editor
and some scheduling software. It does not have an internal or external CD drive.

I have a lot questions and currently I could not do much with the powerbook.
I only hope it will be able to connect to the internet for browsing but so far I was kind of disappointed.
Click to expand...

How I wish I owned a classic PowerBook like that. :) (I DO own a Macintosh Quadra 650 which is acting as a web server for my family's homepage. Check the link to the Old Apple Webserver Directory for a list of other older Macs being used as servers.)

The port on the back for the mouse is not a PS/2 connector but an ADB (Apple Desktop Bus) connector.

As for software, I would check out sites like Jag's House. You can also head to 68Kforum.com, Low End Mac, and even this particular site for help and information on your vintage Mac.


Some of the things I am keen to know is

1). Do I need to upgrade the OS to browse? If so, I do not know how and I do not have any Mac OS with me. Please advise on purchase or download.
I have Windows-based PC which can access internet and has diskette drive and DVD RW drives. I guessed the new Mac OS will not support this powerbook but how do I access the old ones.
Click to expand...
Well, the advantage of newer operating systems and hardware are that you can run the latest and greatest software available on the internet. Of course, with this oldie you won't have that but all is not lost. If you want to upgrade from System 7.1 to say, System 7.5.3, you can since Apple has made System 7.5.3 available for free from their website. Of course, it requires a Mac with an internet connection and a floppy drive in order to download the disk images and make actual floppy disks of them to be used on the PB 520c. Apple also has updaters that will update your PB 520c to 7.5.5 once you've installed 7.5.3. You can also purchase Mac OS 8.1 (which is a more up to date than 7.5.x) from any of the vendors listed on Low End Mac.

As for browsing software, there is a browser called iCab that supports most new web technologies. The version for these older 68K Macs is 2.9.8. I use it on my Quadra 650 and it works decently. You can also purchase Nisus Writer Classic 6.0.1 and use that as an office productivity suite for your classic Mac. They have a free demo that you can test before you buy. Scroll to the bottom for information on Nisus Writer for 68K Macs like yours.

2). This related to the first question. If I do not need to upgrade, how can I setup and access internet. Please advise on hardware and software. I do note
that it has MacWeb but I do not know how to setup the hardware. I am currently accessing internet through a cable modem (USB connection) through one of my PC. I had a ethernet hub which hooked up 2 more PCs (client). Do powerbook 520c support USB connection? I also need advice on how to setup the network connection (PPP? or ethernet?). In windows, the modem came with a software in CD which automatically setup everything.
If I do need to upgrade my OS then, I'll have to ask more questions later.
Click to expand...

The PowerBook 520c came out WAY before USB was introduced, so no you can't get USB on that Mac. However, you do have a PCMCIA slot which might be able to use a wireless card that uses the Orinoco chipset (see this thread on Jag's House). You also have an Ethernet port that you can use to connect that Mac to your Ethernet hub.

I believe System 7.1 has the Control Panels to configure TCP/IP settings under MacTCP. Of course, it was a bit of a pain to set up because of the control panel's interface, but if you upgrade to 7.5.5 or 8.1 you can download Open Transport for your installed System version from Apple's website. Open Transport made it much easier to configure AppleTalk and TCP/IP.

3). I need some advice on installing software from diskette and formatting it.
For windows, a diskette need to be formatted to FAT before they can be read from or write to. Do Mac has their own format? If so, how do format the 1.44mb diskette? Can Mac communicate with windows like Linux? I mean a cable connection to Windows and exchange files. Again about installation of software, in windows, setup is used and the files are placed at desktop and the rests are thrown into a directory and some into system32 directory, etc.
How about Mac? Is Mac like the older version of windows where one can copy the related files into a particular directory and then one can runs it already or does it uses setup like windows.
Click to expand...

The Mac does have its own filesystem. The Mac OS originally had a filesystem called Macintosh File System (MFS). As time progressed, Apple came out with an improved version called the Hierarchical File System (HFS) which supported creating folders and folders withing folders in a hierarchy. With Mac OS 8.1, Apple improved the features of HFS with HFS+. HFS+ increased the supported maximum filesize and disk space, as well as making better use of small files by saving more data in smaller blocks.

Thankfully, software installation isn't the nightmare that it is on Windows. To install an application (on that's properly made for the Mac), all you have to do is drag it to whatever folder you want (preferably an Applications folder to keep things neat and tiday, but it's not necessary). To uninstall, drag it to the Trash and empty the Trash. It's that simple, and it's been like this from the very early days up until the latest version of Tiger.

However, there are applications that come with installers but they don't spread things around the system like they do in Windows. If they do install anything on the system, you'll either find it in the Extensions folder or Control Panels folder, both located in the System Folder. To uninstall, just re-run the installer and select "Custom Remove" or "Remove" from the drop down list of the installer. Most well-developed Mac apps will either have you do that or drag the app to the trash as I mentioned before.

4). Is there any way, I can access Mac software in internet, download it to a windows formatted HD before transferring it to a diskette and finally to the powerbook for installation?
Click to expand...

See the following link for information:

http://www.jagshouse.com/Macs_and_PCs.html

Thank you for your patience and sorry about the long thread.
Click to expand...

Anytime :D
 
Thank very much. You guys are so helpful That's what very helpful and thanks for the quick replies. I played around with it for 2 hours just now. I noticed the diskette drive can read dos formatted disketter and mac formatted diskette. In fact, I am getting more optimistic about using it more. I did noticed several things worries me. The main one is the hardware. One of the ports is indeed for the mouse and the mouse works! However, there is one scsi port (HDI-30) and an ethernet port (AAUI-15). The ps2 looked alike cables that came with it is actually a serial std port. I got big help from everymac.com website specifications for powerbook 520c. I wonder where I can get such cables to SCSI and ethernet port. I also wonder which printer in the market now has serial port that look like ps2. Well, I hope someone will enlightened me. I particularly need some advice on the ethernet cable (AAUI-15). I have some ethernet cables but they had totally different connector. Anyone knows what these ethernet cable are called or are they known as AAUI-15 also. I also apologised for some errors as I found out it has a Mac System Beta-7.5.

Anyway, i try to go through all your advices and all your recommended
internet link and see whether I can pick up some tips :). Got a lot to catch up. Anyway, I will try not to judge a Mac with the this old powerbook but I have used 486 and P1 notebook (windows based) before and I must admit
powerbook is quite advanced in comparisons (particularly the networking features).

Thank you.
 
Oops sorry for the fast typing. I am very grateful for your guys help and my interest in Mac is rising fast. I particularly noted your advice with great interest, nixgeek on TCPIP and Appletalk (and PPP?). I have Appletalk in the powerbook and has activated it but I do not it is for. TCPIP is not setup and I'll look into that if I had the ethernet connection up. I had used PPP before but it was not used now I think.

Well, let's not do too much. My main aim is to access internet and clean up the HD which has a other ppl files and I am not sure which one is working which is not. I like to start fresh which I think I can then learn better. I noted symphonix (thanks) for http://www.info.apple.com/support/oldersoftwarelist.html but the warning
of it may do harm if improperly installed and the large amount files just knock me out. So how to start fresh, in a safe way. In windows, I would fdisk the HD, format it and install the windows (via CD if XP or diskette by diskette if 3.1 or 95). Then I would install softwares. What about Mac?

From another perspective, a safer way would be upgrade which nixgeek advised. In windows, the windows will detect that your OS is older and will advised you on upgrading (probably inserting certain diskettes and not all).
What about Mac? Oh, where actually MacOS files sit?

Sorry again for the long query and I typing this while browsing the jag website in which I am also learning.

Thank you again.
 
kwng said:
Oops sorry for the fast typing. I am very grateful for your guys help and my interest in Mac is rising fast. I particularly noted your advice with great interest, nixgeek on TCPIP and Appletalk (and PPP?). I have Appletalk in the powerbook and has activated it but I do not it is for. TCPIP is not setup and I'll look into that if I had the ethernet connection up. I had used PPP before but it was not used now I think.

Well, let's not do too much. My main aim is to access internet and clean up the HD which has a other ppl files and I am not sure which one is working which is not. I like to start fresh which I think I can then learn better. I noted symphonix (thanks) for http://www.info.apple.com/support/oldersoftwarelist.html but the warning
of it may do harm if improperly installed and the large amount files just knock me out. So how to start fresh, in a safe way. In windows, I would fdisk the HD, format it and install the windows (via CD if XP or diskette by diskette if 3.1 or 95). Then I would install softwares. What about Mac?

From another perspective, a safer way would be upgrade which nixgeek advised. In windows, the windows will detect that your OS is older and will advised you on upgrading (probably inserting certain diskettes and not all).
What about Mac? Oh, where actually MacOS files sit?

Sorry again for the long query and I typing this while browsing the jag website in which I am also learning.

Thank you again.
Click to expand...

Okay, if you're using System 7.5 then Open Transport is definitely installed and you should have no problems networking it. For Ethernet connections you need to configure the TCP/IP control panel. For dial-up connections you need to configure the TCP/IP, PPP and Modem control panels.

Appletalk is a protocol that essentially finds other computers on your networks and allows them to communicate (over simplified). It's great if you're talking to other Macs as file sharing is very easy to set-up. Since your other computers are PCs that throws a wrench into things. You either need to get your PCs to talk Appletalk or get your Mac to talk windows file sharing. Someone already mentioned a product called Dave. I've never used it, but I understand it works well.

The operating system on Macs older than Mac OS X (ie system 6 through system 9) is generally in a directory at the root level of the hard drive called "System Folder." I say generally, because you can actually name it whatever you want. Look for a little happy mac face on the folder icon. Inside this folder, probably the most important folders your concerned with at this time is the Control Panels folder. Inside here you'll find the TCP/IP and other control panels. When you get up to speed some other folders to note are the Extensions folder (drivers in a nutshell) and Preferences folder (where applications store their preferences).

You can definitely reformat the hard drive and start over. To do so, however, you must boot the computer off of an installation disk or CD. When you bought this machine did it come with the installation disks?

If you have the installation disks, or manage to get your hands on them (I'd recommend System 8.1 over System 7.5--I always had problems with 7.5) you boot your computer of off them. (if they're floppies, just put the first floppy in before starting up the machine and the computer should automatically boot off of it -- if a CD, put the CD in, reboot and hold down the 'C' key until you get the happy mac icon).

Once booted there should be a disk formatting utility that for the life of my I can't remember the name. But you don't necessarily need to format the disk. Unlike Windows, on the classic Mac OS you can have multiple systems installed on the same partition. There should be an option when you run the installer to do what's called a clean install. What this does, is it takes the old system folder and renames it 'previous system folder.' It then creates a new system folder. This way any fonts and applications on the host don't have to be reinstalled (though their preferences may need to be transfered to the new system folder).

While typing this up I came across this page with directions on how to do a clean install with system 7.5.

Anyway, hope I'm somewhat coherent. Have fun!
 
Thank you very much mosx86. Your advice is very helpful. I do not have access to CD drive so I am kind a limited. I also do not have any Cds or diskette for system. I also made an error earlier about the system info, it's a MacOS system B1-7.5 not beta as I mentioned earlier. I think I need to access internet first. I have checked the TCPIP setting and I think I know how to set it up but I need hardware first (AAUI-15 transceiver, I think). I found a few at ebay but very high postage cost. Anyhow I am still watching them. I also need some info on the printer port. Everymac.com says that the powerbook has a serial (std) printer port. I hardly think it is std one as it not a 9 pin or a 25 pin type of serial port I knew. Again it looks like ps2 port.
I have seen an adaptor for this printer on a powerbook 520c for sale in ebay but I do not know what it is called. Anyone knows about this printer adaptor or what is it called? I was wondering whether it is a serial to serial or serial to parallel adaptor. As everyone knows, nowadays printer comes with parallel port and usb port. A parallel port adaptor would be helpful.

Thank you again.
 
Thanks again your help. Well, I think the software is great but is there any freeware? I am currently thinking of spending some amount on the hardware for transceiver for AAUI-15 to RJ45 and scsi cd drive (which inevitable). I cannot afford software at the moment as most of this hardware and software is due to problem of incompatibility or obsolete technology. I also noticed the new MAC is more compatible with current devices (with USB, etc.), will also perform much better and it is worth the spending (as it will last for years). I hope you would understand.
 
Totally. If you can't use a computer, then what good is it? I understand. If you can, I would recommend something like the Mac mini. Yeah, the Intel Macs have been announced, but the Mac mini is coming down even further from it's $499 price and will do a lot for you in the coming years. And when Intel is more established on the Mac side, you can take the money you saved with the Mac mini and purchase yourself a nice 2nd or 3rd generation Intel Mac. But don't get rid of the PowerBook 520c (unless, of course, you want to hand it over to someone like me... ;)). It's a great machine that can do a lot despite its age, and once you have that Mac mini it will be much easier to make the media to install a newer OS on that 520c. :)
 
No I am not getting rid of it but I am trying everything within a minimum budget to get it do some basics i.e. browsing, word processing, etc. but most important, to get some experience and knowledge about Mac. I reckoned if I encountered a Mac anywhere at least I don't find myself lost :). There is not many ppl use Mac in UK unlike US. As I am writing, I am reading some of your good advices and from others on installing some Mac softwares and may attempt to update Mac System 7.5. Have you done this before i.e. upgrading from 7.5 to 7.5.3 (am I right?). I have downloaded 19 bin files from apple history website which I think indicate upgrade files of 7.5 to 7.5.3. I have also downloaded iCab in SIT format and Nixus writer (nw) in 5 files (bin). Perhaps you can elaborate a little on how I should start to install nw bin files. These files are in my windows based PC. I would start by copying them to 5 diskettes. Then well, are they binary files (executable), i.e. just double click them and they will run or are zipped/archived and need to unzip. Do copy all the 5 bin files to the Mac HD or I can install diskettes by diskettes similar to installing in win3.1 or win95. As for SIT files, I think they need Stuffit to expand them after I copy them into the Mac HD. What happened after expanding is probably a number files will be out. Then what? Just put them into a directory (which I will create) and run them?

Well, I'll try it first and if any advice comes in, I'll be glad to hear.

Thank you again.
 
Sigh! .. what a frustrating night. Nothing works. Need more help over here.
I followed the advice of Jaghouse.com but nothing works. One of my main problem is I need to download softwares from internet via PC and then transfer to floppy before moving into Mac. According to Jaghouse.com, I need to download those binhex type then copy into FAT floppy then to Mac.
My powerbook can read those PC formatted floppy and can copy these files
into its HD. However, my powerbook do not have stuffit or binhqx. So I cannot expand them at Mac. Anyone knows how I can get stuffit fit into floppy. Well, I will continue to try. By the way, I do not have stuffit in bin hex. Any recommendation on where I can get stuffit 5.xx caused I have tried Jaghouse.com but his link ain't working.
 
kwng said:
Sigh! .. what a frustrating night. Nothing works. Need more help over here.
I followed the advice of Jaghouse.com but nothing works. One of my main problem is I need to download softwares from internet via PC and then transfer to floppy before moving into Mac. According to Jaghouse.com, I need to download those binhex type then copy into FAT floppy then to Mac.
My powerbook can read those PC formatted floppy and can copy these files
into its HD. However, my powerbook do not have stuffit or binhqx. So I cannot expand them at Mac. Anyone knows how I can get stuffit fit into floppy. Well, I will continue to try. By the way, I do not have stuffit in bin hex. Any recommendation on where I can get stuffit 5.xx caused I have tried Jaghouse.com but his link ain't working.
Click to expand...

This link has a download of Aladdin Expander (ie Stuffit) 5.5 as a .hqx file. It'll fit on a floppy (494KB) and you should be able to uncompress it with your web browser.
 
The onlty problem with that is that he would still need an uncompressing program to open the .hqx file. This is one of the major conundrums in getting software over to Classic Macs from a PC. Let me see what I can do. Expect a private message from me soon, kwng.
 
Thanks again for all your help. Nixgeek, you were spot on. I tried all the tricks I can think of but as long my mac don't have any unzip or expanding software, I dead stucked. I am looking forward for your private message. I think I need some more clarifications. There are 2 types of format involved; FAT and Mac (HFS?). I knew windows can read FAT but not MAC. But Mac can read both. When I copy a hqx file or any files from Windows to a FAT formatted floppy. When MAC reads it, it will recognise it as a PC exchange file. I have copied files with bin extension, hqx extension, sit extension, sea extension. Well, what I really want to know is if Mac executable file/application program file is placed/copied into a FAT formatted floppy and read in windows, what extension will be in (when view using windows).

I have also downloaded an utility known as hfsutil with hope that I can use these commands to copy unzipped files into a Mac formatted floppy to be transferred to Mac. However, when run, it has error, some dll file missing. Another method I have tried is using Stuffit for windows that has an option of expanding/unzipping into a Mac format which got me real excited. However, half way through expanding or unzipping, it says no enough disk space (I almost fainted as it was near 5 am then with my head very dizzy). That's was the closest I got.

I really appreciate everyone's help and would like to thank all again.
 
Voila! tonight I am lucky. I successfully install stuffit at my Mac. Well, I was searching for installed softwares in my Mac and the internet for file compression for mac, I found my mac has compactpro 1.4.3. This program is not at my mac desktop but hidden at a personal directory. I used it to expand the stuffit hqx file. Thanks for all your encouragement particularly to
you Nixgeek. Now its time to explore some software and upgrades :)
 
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