Not at all what I expected.

Fred Flinstone

Fred Flinstone

XP Divorcee - Mac Virgin
As a recent convert to mac (Never having even touched one prior to mid-September) I have had one or two niggling little issues but overall Love the OS 1000 times more that Win-DoSe. However 2 continue to bug the heck outta me!

The first is an issue with QT 7 and it's support for MPeg files. I load up an Mpeg 2 and no sound!. For that I downloaded the likes of VLC PLayer and MPlayer. If I want to hear sound in QT7 I have to first open the movie in one of the other players. Then close that player and reopen the file qith QT7.

I have issues with QT on both WIndows and Mac but being native to Mac this not only surprises me - It bugs me. Mpeg is a mainstream format that does notrequire special codecs.

The other one is the Mac file system and how it handles image files. The amound of 'corrupted' download files I have experienced so far is unacceptable. I often do not remember the source site from which I download an image so cannot revisit and try again. Worse than this if I correct the orientation of an image in preview it still previews 'on its side' in finder. Thumbnail previews akin to those on windows simply arent available and are a real hinderance. Yes I have downloaded 3rd party image viewers which don't hel at all - they actually make things worse by generating thumbnail folders all over the place. Still on this topic There is seemingly no way to create a hierarchical Slideshow by just selecting the Parent Folder. I have tried on iPhoto, Preview, Adobe Bridge and a few others all they look at are the image files in the parentdirectorey and none of those in it's children.

For me perhaps the one windows based app I really do miss is JASC's Media Centre. To date it is still the best Slideshow app on any platform I have come across.

Why then when mac is such a great platform for graphics (believe me - it rocks!!!) does the base operating system seemingly support graphics files so badly? If you need to visually locate an image quickly you have to do a 1 by 1 scoll in finder as opposed to looking at 50 at a time on the scroll.

Also the file structure is a real mess and nomenclature. I find I physically need to drag all images from a folder to a temp folder on the desktop and rename them aa_000001.jpg etc - and Folders zz_00001 etc using Rename4Mac just to be able to order them logically- - separating files from folders. Using the list view in Finder you can more or less do this but the prieview view is a disaster! By my method if I then add new files of folders to the parent they are easy to pick ou, rename and reorder. This is really time consuming.

To me thus far this is one of Macs biggest dissapointments and biggest failings - great if your accustomed to working in complete chaos - othertwise not!

I came here for help - looks like I need a lot of it. aforementioned image browser app was called simply imagebrowser. Not even remotely close to Microsoft's image prievew. (Don't get me wrong here - I loathe Microsoft!!!)

Even on Linux such programs as Gwenview handle basic functions like this rather well - why not Mac?
 
Someone else here may have other experiences with this, but the MPEG-2 decoder is not free, and is not a standard part of QuickTime. It is a commercial product that you would purchase and add to QuickTime. I don't know if Apple has updated that component for QuickTime 7 yet.
 
Slideshows etc.: iPhoto. Comes with your Mac. It's really nice and probably overbombing for what you intend to do. But the Finder's simply not the place to find all that functionality, currently.
 
Thanks for the quick replies -

fryke I think maybe you missed what I said about iPhoto. It is lobely but can not get it to look beyond the parent folder.... meaning I have to rip through tons of folders and copy out all the images into one folder to run as a slideshow. What if I want to leave the file structure as is and view the entire bunch as 1 slideshow? No can do!!! I absolutely love Macs screensavers though - especially the rss live one. If that aint one of the coolest things ever.....

ButGraphics Converter I have seen mentioned elsewhere. Obviously I dont need to convert graphics as I can do that with Photoshop - however if it were to provide the functionality I seek than fabulous.

Still beats me why this has not been better developed on Mac up to now though.

I have not even mentioned the 'fantastic' spotlight tool eiother. I doubt I will ever use it again - rubbish!

I had 3 folders on my hy and I even renamed them all identically and empatented them in a 3-tier structure.

I put a dummy jpeg in each again with the same name as the folder.

spotlight could not find Foldername nor Foldername.jpeg no matter what the search criteria be it on the HD local folder. Accourding to spotlight it simply did not exist at all! I definitely have no confidence in tools like this!!!

Thanks for the feedback once again - I'll look into Graphics Converter to see if it's anyway on track! I'd prefer to have less programs than more on my Machine if you know what I mean. The whole reason for divorcing Win-DoSe in the first place. Cannot be bothered with thirty media players and hundreds of codecs when the object is to merely play a simple movie.
 
Well, iPhoto is like that. It wants to be your one-stop shop for photos. You'd have to let _it_ handle your files in order to make it work for you. :) I personally think it's worth it, though.
 
Well since I use Adobe CS 2, I view all my images in Bridge. I agree with your comment tho about the Finder lacking image thumbnails. One thing you could do is to do a Spotlight search for the folder or files you are looking for and the results window will have image thumbnails.
 
I downloaded a trial for graphicconverter and it looks to be well on the lines of what I am looking for. Seems to be a bit like Adobe Lightroom. Has options to look at child folders and nice thumbnailed layout. Must see if you can thumbnail the folders though with images from within

For example I have 10 folders from Bolivia divided into images from different places Would like to visually be able to ID the folder as Jungle with an image of the jungle from within (similar to Win-DoSe) for quick reference rather than having to continually read file and folder names and having to open up 01/02/03 etc...

This looks promising so once again DeltaMac your tip much appreciated indeed.

Salival - I think bridge is great up to a point but thats as far as it goes. Lack of options for slideshows and worse still if you need to open a number of images 'on the fly' you can't unless you want them all to open with photoshop. Unless that is you permanently reassociate your jpegs with preview. I could live with an option whereby clicking them will open tyhem in photoshop but Cmd Clicking willopen them in preview (sort of like a secondary browser function) but alas such functionality does not exist!

Lightroom looks great by comparison and is probably the best thing to come out of Adobe in years!

The tip DeltaMac gave looks nice - gonna explore this to the full before I make any decisions about buying it! Hope you can see where I'm coming from on this and what I'm trying to do. I am way more productive on a mac thus far than I ever was on Windows but hate losing time looking up this file and that file as they are buried someplace under layer upon layer! For that reason alone thumb visibility is all important. By the way - Merry Christmas all!!!
 
If you want a simple viewer that can go through a directory of images and display them one by one, JView is very nice for doing that. It will also go into subdirectories. To view the next image, just hold down the Command key and press the right arrow. For the previous image, use the left arrow instead.
 
actually, there is thumbnail view in finder.

select 'icon view' and then go into the view options in the finders menu.

increase the icon size all the way to 128x128 and then hit 'show icon preview'.

set this to all folders, so that now, icon view is thumbnail view. use colmun view for quick navigation and thumbnail view when you want it.
 
As I mentioned there is an icon view in finder but it's ridiculous - one by one!!!

The grahpicconverter program that DeltaMac mentioned is far closer to what I was looking for that you get thumnail views of ALL the jpegs in a folder at one time. However it still seems to do thigs the mac way as far as the slideshow goes and I cannot find out how to change things in preferences for this program.

If you have say 10 folders and within each have jpeds numbered one to 12 - what I would like to be able to do is logical and was very much how many apps tackled things in Windows.

You would expect the folder to have higher precedence than the file- ie folder 1 > view slides 1 to 12 then move on to Folder 2 : view slides 1 to 12 etc.

In Mac it's view file 1 in Folder 1 then move on to file 1 in folder 2....

In other words banana logic!

Anyone got any insight as how now to get graphicconverter to work in a logical fashion? I'm very happy otherwise with the program but reiterate am annoyed to find that this kind of functionality is very much 'extra' on the mac where it is inbuilt into the most basic functionality in windows.
 
I think this is a very typical case of adjustment-problem. Sorry. ;) -> You have come to expect things to work like you saw them on Windows, and now you're looking for _exactly_ the same behaviour on a different system. You consider a specific function of Windows to be "basic" (because it's been there for you) and look down on the Mac for not having "the most basic functionality". iPhoto, which comes with every Mac, offers *far more options and control* than this "most basic" tool in Windows. But you're not willing to invest any energy. What can we tell you...

My opinion is: You should take all your photos/jpegs and hand them over to iPhoto. Tag them appropriately in the metatag fields and start using iPhoto as it was intended. Forget about file structures in the Finder, because iPhoto handles that by itself and doesn't _want_ you to mess things up there. And iPhoto's features will - if you start this process with an open mind - give you a lot more than "play 1-1 to 1-12 then go 2-1 to 2-12". Suddenly you *will* have decent thumbnails, lots of controls for slideshows and an easy way to handle these. iLife is *perfect* for what you generally intend to do. But closed-mindedness ("I have three folders and the Mac oughta show me the pictures exactly like Windows did or it stinks...") won't really help you.

Other ideas... There might also be an easy way to do this stuff with AppleScript and the Finder. Automator might help you. Or you could also hop over to www.versiontracker.com or www.macupdate.com and search for things like "slideshow" etc. Maybe someone else came from Windows and missed that particular behaviour and wrote up something quick. You're right, it doesn't seem too far fetched to want a picture-player to take folders and files and behave as you describe. So maybe something does and we just don't know about it, because that *very* specific wish never came up.
 
This is extremely patronising on your part and I take offence - I came here for help and openly admit I am from a Windows-drugged existence. However such functionality also exists on Linux which is Free so what I refer to as 'basic' is something that both platforms possess yet Mac seemingly does not.

However I am here for constructive help and not to get into handbag fights.

I thank DeltaMac once again for his tip. The program is just about perfect for my purposes and yes I finally did discover that you can 'normalise' the slideshow. First it was perhaps my misfortune that graphicconverter seemed to have installed itself in random mode as opposed to normal. The problem perhaps with it being a try before you buy program is that there is no help menu. I spent hours trying to figure this out and nowhere can you 'normalise' the slideshow to behave as a logical person would expect from the preferences menu for the program (where you would logically expect to find such option) - instead you access it by means of a hidden shortcut.

Anyhow i am now able to view slideshows in the logical ordered Windows way (as you would seem to refer to it by the comment above) or in a random chaotic manner which would appear to be what you are defending as the Mac way of doing things. Either way I am now happy as far as this particular issue goes. This graphicsconverter program looks like a great little prohgram. And yes I have explored the likes of iPhoto Bridge and even Adobe Lightroom before I posted this thread and they could not do what I was wanting to do for reasons I have already mentioned in the thread. GraphicConverter seems to handle the problem perfectly. It will open jpegs in a preview pane and will run slideshows to as deep a folder depth as you like Logically or randomly. I guess that's good enough for me as it would be too much to have folder icon previews - but then again neither Adobe nor iPhoto have them so no big deal!

By the way I had thought of the Apple Script /Automator routine as a last resort so thanks for that suggestion at least!
 
I wasn't trying to be patronising, so I'm sorry if it came across that way. You have to understand that your use of the word "logic" and "where a logically thinking person would expect to find things" all sound to me _perfectly_ like you're not going about this open-mindedly.

And: "or in a random chaotic manner which would appear to be what you are defending as the Mac way of doing things" - Now *that's* what I'd call offensive. iPhoto certainly doesn't behave erratically about the order of pictures.
 
Fred Flinstone said:
As I mentioned there is an icon view in finder but it's ridiculous - one by one!!!
Click to expand...

No, it does not has to be one by one, just choose a window and then show view options, check "Show Icon Preview" and on the top you will see "This Window Only" and "All Windows", choose all windows and you are set. Now all your Finder windows will show icon previews.

Now it is just as it is on Windows. Still, the mac does it better since it gives you the option to turn it off, unlike Windows, so if you have a folder with really large file, your system will not lag (unlike windows who tries to create previews of 200mb+ files and you have no option to turn it off).
 
Salival - I think maybe we're at crossed purposes here (possibly my fault and if so I apologise - I have not read back on the thread today). What I am referring to is thumbnailed views as opposed to Icon views. Finder as far as I can see, clearly does not have this capability

The graphiconverter program again I mention is great - and proof that coming to this forum can really be beneficial to Mac Virgins such as I. Does it all - exactly like it says on the tin, and more still! My only wish is that I could get thumb views for the folders too as a quick reference to whats instide rather than havinf to scan read. (An accesibility Option) Neverheless I think I will buy this after the demo runs out - must check the price.

In finder it lists multiple Icons as you correctly point out - but you then open a folder to browse it's contents and are met with file icons. You have to click the file icon to display the thumb - laborious and tedious (again compare to Lunux viewers or the Windows standard Pictures/Fax Viewer. I'm not mentioning3rd party products like graphicconverter, ASeeDeeSEE or JASC Media Centre etc that do this too. I'm talking about standard OS support software ).....

Also as mentioned in finder in the 'list/column view' option - this is the only place you can order by kind. The minute you switch back to prieview everything defaults once again to alpha-numeric listind regardless of format. Very Messy in my opinion and if there is a way to order in this view then let's say I'm still looking for it 3 months down the line!
 
Fryke -let's put this all behind us now!!! But please read your reply again and imagine yourself say in an Irix forum and you were used to doing things the Mac or Windows way for that matter. You are there to seek help - and I still defend what I say (open-midedly too for that matter) about things being laid out logically not to mention accesibility for those with disabilities). So you ask the question why does Irix not display xxxxx when Mac/Windows/Linux and Solaris all do it perfectly? Fair Question

But The tone of your reply

I think this is a very typical case of adjustment-problem. Sorry. -> You have come to expect things to work like you saw them on Windows, and now you're looking for _exactly_ the same behaviour on a different system.
Click to expand...

is a slap in the face for the newcomer and not very helpful when put that way. As a newcomer this insinuates that you have to know alrady what you've bought into by making the switch - in which case what is the need to come here for help in the first place. That is patronizing and if I take offence and respond in kind then there's hardly any surprise under the circumstances.

Again I and others such as I come here for assistance and not to be talked down too and will thank you to accept this. Likewise think open-mindedly about the problems and questions that converts and newcomers alike might experience and try to offer help constuctively rather that telling people they need to change their brain.

Like I said - better that this should all get left behind, There is no point is letting it fester on so for my Part I apologise for my repost. I have got a decent enough solution and am now in a position myself to offer others good and constructive advice based on what I have learned here.

Once again Mac could seriously do with providing the kind of functionality found in graphicconverter as part of the standard OS. I would also urge a complete overhaul of finder - more akin to the explorer type browsers found on either Linux or DoSe and decent thumbnail support like that provided as standard in Windows or like that in Gwenview.

'Then P**s off back to from whence you came Charlatan' I hear you all cry. I love Mac thus far and these are very strong, constuctive and valid suggestions to making what is already a superior OS become even stronger - I reply!!!!
 
Okay, it's behind us now. That said: I don't think the Finder needs this functionality. It's for finding and organising files - not their content. That's what iLife's intended for. The Finder has its small slideshow feature, and I think that's enough for what the Finder's intended for. You want to quickly glance at a few pics, you select them and see them fullscreen. Leopard will expand a little on that. I think it's quite nicely done. The "icon preview" function isn't intended for handling/organising slideshows, it's just there to give you a small preview of what you're looking at. And that it does quite nicely, I think.

Most of the time, when I get a CD full of pictures or a zipped folder from a contact, I know what I want to do with the files. (And yes, that's now a personal preference thing...) Most of the time, I just drop the whole CD or folder into iPhoto, where I can very nicely arrange them, put them into slideshows, tag them (in order to later find the stuff via text-search) and all is well in pictureland. If I *don't* know what the pix are, I either open them in preview or open them as a slideshow. But if I truly want to present a slideshow, i.e. to friends, family, a project group or something, then I prepare that in iPhoto - or if it needs additional information and corporate identity graphics, I layout the slideshow in InDesign and create a PDF or use Keynote.

The Finder *does* need serious work in some aspects - and it has needed serious work since Mac OS X began its journey. Hopefully, Leopard fixes quite a few things about it, although I guess they won't change the two-modes-in-one-shell behaviour, sadly. (But that's another topic.)
 
Just backtracking on some of what we addressed in this thread.... The Mpeg format being and extra - as deltamac also pointed out. This has always been free on both windows and Linux so now I am completely confused. It's things like the dreadful .wmv format and Microsoft having the b***s to charge for this on other platforms (Now that's a sign of pure desperation I guess!) that throw a problem but I have always been of the impression that both Mpeg and /avi have been the free common video standard ever since I first touched a computer way back in the late 80's. This astonishes me totally that you gotta pay for this as an add-on for quick time!

As for iPhoto I tried it and hated it for these purposes - it is another app similar to iTunes that creates Libraries for you by default. To me that is a pretty annoying behaviour as too is the default naming and organizing of your images by the application. I like to have complete control over where images go on my HD and as to how they are arranged hierarchically. If iPhoto allows me to do this I haven't figured it out yet!

I went in and deleted several of the folders and slideshows it created - only problem being that I thought I had cleaned them and their references out of iPhoto leaving me only the stuff there I wanted iPhoto to handle. A few hours later with Spotlight (another app I have serious reservations about as it cant find what I am looking for even though I have triplicated file and folder names!) these same folders turned up again in home>pictures>iPhoto Library. I had totally cleansed them in the app - but apparently not. Another iPhoto issue - how come images shot in 2006 are turning up in my 2002 folder??? Other images shot with the same camera are correctly turning up in 2006 (No camera settings have ever been reset to that end). If I put a CD full of images into my super drive I want to work with a selected fiew other than duplicating the whole cd again and again as seems to be the case from what I have said here. I want the structure to reflect project workflow and not some default structure empolyed by iPhoto.

Similarly with iTunes it annoys me that every time I insert a music CD I get prompted by default on whether or not to copy to the library. Why would I want this to happen by default when I already have it on CD?

As an afterthought I might want to create a compilation maybe in mp3. But only then will I need to tell itunes to import the music. Converting to MP3 is another story - and over complicated in iTunes. Once again maybe I need to investigate iTunes a bit further to change it's default behaviour but it's this very kind of thing that has always turned me off this Media Player in Particular, as well as sudden unexplained blips during playback.

The Library in my opinion should be voluntary and something you build and personalize yourself rather than having it dictaded to you by an application default behaviour.

- My Opinion anyway.

For that matter too graphicconverter is streets ahead of iPhoto! (again only one man's opinion!) as itallows the user conrol and the ability to organize material at several different hierarchical levels.
 
I won't let you lump MPEG-2 in with the other MPEG formats. MPEG-1 and MPEG-4 don't seem to have any licensing restrictions. Here's a short blurb from Wikopedia about MPEG-2 licensing requirements.
It should also be noted according to the MPEG-LA Licensing Agreement MPEG-LA that any use of MPEG-2 technology is subject to royalties.
Encoders have a $2.50 charge per use since Jan 1, 2002
Decoders have a $2.50 charge per use since Jan 1, 2002
As well as any packaged medium (DVD's / Data Streams) plus additional fees according to length of broadcast.
In the case of GPL'ed software such as VLC (which uses the Libdvdcss library) and in which the software is not sold, the end-user bears the royalty.
Click to expand...
Hope this helps explain why the MPEG-2 decoders just aren't provided free
 
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