Passwords on OSX

porteous

porteous

East Anglia branch
Can someone please tell me why OSX (pile of poo that it is) keeps asking me for passwords every time that I log on? Not only that, but wretched mail.app asks me for the same password every time that I wish to download my mail.

I am not running a network, I do NOT want ANYTHING password protected, and I wish to use this computer password-free, whenever I wish. Is it possible for the folks in Cupertino (wherever THAT is) to understand that?

If Steve Jobs cannot comprehend that, then please pass it on to Al Gore, actual President of the United States. Or else, PLEASE bring back the brilliant OS 8.2 or 9.1 - both of which actually worked without having to log on.

If I wanted to step back into the Dark Ages I would have bought a bloody Windows PC. But I don't wish to part with money to the Devil - at least, not yet....
 
Before you complain, did you open up system preferences and click on the security button? Did you not notice the "Disable automatic login" checkbox? Try unchecking that. Did you tell Mail.app to remember your password? Mail.app always runs without asking me for my password.

Brian
 
As btoneill said, uncheck the "diable automatic login." Is that new in Panther? My memory tells me that pre-Panther it was more of an opt-in option, you check here for automatic login and pick which user to login as.

As for Mail.app, it works the same for all apps that require a password, in the dialog box that pops up, you allow it access and then add it to the key chain and it won't bother you anymore.

BTW, why are you using Mail.app if you're not on a network? 56K modem dial-up Internet access also constitutes as a network.
 
I've just looked at the Security section of System Preferences - I have to say it's part of Preferences I've never looked at before in two years, because I want no security (strange as that may seem to some people). I have nothing I wish to hide.

I just would like to be able to use this machine as I used to.

Disable automatic login is unchecked - is that right? No Master Password is set.

Mail.app has never been instructed to use passwords. The so-called preferences in mail are so few as to be useless. OK if you like pretty pictures.... something designed with Windows users in mind, I think.

I have actually been through all this before on this forum (some months ago), and people did make useful suggestions, for which I was grateful. None of them worked. I still have to enter my password to download my mail and it makes a chap want to go back to Outlook - er, Express (just got that caught in my throat)....

More recently, I even downloaded from Apple a piece of software designed to "correct" this fault in Mail.app. It doesn't work - like a lot of things from Apple.
Quote: "It can fix: Mail and iChat could continue to prompt users for their password after saving it in the keychain." See http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/9944

As I said, a pile of poo.
 
I think the problem is actually the new so-called Keychain. Why do I need this little bit of unnecessary - that serves no useful purpose. We managed perfectly well without anything like this before OSX.

Would anything drastic happen if I deleted it?
 
as far as I know, keychain can keep a collection of passwords from some applications to secure websites that require username and passsword. I like it alot, but in your case I don't think deleting it will screw the system up. IMHO, I rather have the stability of OSX than the crashprone OS9...to me OS9 serves no useful purpose....
 
I could understand OS 9.x - I just can't get my head round OSX. Well, that's not quite true - when it works it's fine.

But when it doesn't, I'm completely lost. No control panels, no preferences, no extension manager to fiddle with, no easily accessible system folder - and worst of all no documentation! Yeah, I know! - buy a book....

And just about five or six places where the fonts are kept.... and they're totally incompatible with all my pre-OSX fonts. And no Adobe Type Manager, so all my Quark documents have the fonts bitmapped when I boot up in Classic.

Thanks a bunch, Apple!

Yeah - go and spend some more money, Bruce.... Quark could do with the cash - I think not - better to 'acquire' a ripped-off version - like everyone else....
 
Solution to automatic login issue:
  1. Open System Preferences from the Apple menu
  2. Choose the Accounts pane
  3. Click Login Options in the bottom left of the accounts list
  4. Check the "Automatically login as: " checkbox
  5. Choose your account from the popup menu (if not already selected)

porteous said:
But when it doesn't, I'm completely lost. No control panels, no preferences, no extension manager to fiddle with, no easily accessible system folder - and worst of all no documentation! Yeah, I know! - buy a book....
Click to expand...

Control panels are in the System Preferences pane. There are no extensions as such... not that you need to worry about anyway. Preferences are in your Home folder, inside Library/Preferences. I tend to think there's actually less for people to stuff up on OS X.
 
porteous said:
...because I want no security (strange as that may seem to some people). I have nothing I wish to hide...
Click to expand...

You only have that attitude because you don't know what security really means.

It doesn't matter if you have nothing to hide - if your computer is insecure, someone could give you something to hide. If a hacker were to hide lots of horrible kiddy porn on your computer, and it were found, you'd probably acquitted eventually. But the destruction of your reputation would be permanent; people would always have their doubts.

If a hacker were to take over your computer, just to use as a zombie to attack another computer (belonging to someone who does have something to hide), maybe he'd want to cover his tracks to make sure he's not caught. Surest way to do that? Erase your entire hard drive. Then you really would have nothing to hide, because you'd have nothing at all.

So fine, you may not think you want security now. But don't come crying to me when some hacker has stolen your identity, taken out a dozen credit cards in your name, and ruined your credit rating.

Anyway - when Mail.app asks you for your password, do you just curse and shout and type your password every time, or do you actually check the little box beside where it says "remember this password"?
 
LOL. That's rich. Mac OS X is a piece of crap because you don't understand it. I understand you're probably frustrated, but you must realize that the problem is with you, not the OS.

In the Keychain Access application (which was around in Mac OS 9 BTW) make sure your keychain is unlocked and not set to lock after a certain amount of time (under the Edit menu, select "Change settings for keychain <your_keychain>").
 
scruffy said:
... when Mail.app asks you for your password, do you just curse and shout and type your password every time, or do you actually check the little box beside where it says "remember this password"?
Click to expand...
Yeah, Scruffy - it's really likely that that someone would want to hack into MY computer - imho, the most likely candidates would be the White House, the Pentagon or Number Ten.

Yes, I do curse and shout now - after over two years of hell! Believe me, I'm a Mac enthusiast and evangelist (or at least I used to be, when I could get the thing to work), but I have to say that Windows XP is looking more and more attractive. I've used it at work and it's alright - but not as good as Mac OS 8.2 or 9.1.

To answer your question, I have instructed Mail.app to remember my password, but I have to put it in to unlock my keychain every time I check my mail - and then, every few weeks Mail itself asks me again - out of the blue (normally when I'm in the middle of typing something important - and find I've typed nothing for half a paragraph....)

Worse than that, it'll ask me for my wife's password - and keep on asking. I don't know what it currently is - why doesn't it ask her.... she can't remember either.

OSX drives me mad.

In response to Cybergoofer: Three of the keychains are unlocked. There are two titled <my first name>, one titled 'login', and one titled 'System' (the one which IS locked).

We've just run the Keychain utility again - read the description at http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/9944 Has it worked? - watch this space.

::evil::
 
Sorry to hear that you are experiencing frustration. Your version of OSX is the same as everyone else. You should slow down a bit and realize what it is that you doing. My Mail.app has not asked me for my password since the day I set it up. If you get this frustrated with OSX, then Windows would not be a good idea for you. :D
 
Well, if you are so frustrated with X, judging from the hardware you are using, you could almost opt to revert back to 9.1/9.2 and continue to use Outlook Express, Quark, etc. in their "native" environments.
 
Passwords on OS X act very much like they did on OS 9. The keychain is the nice old throwback from OS 9 which was a great thing to keep.

Yes, OS X has things laid out differently, and while you say it has no documentation (I am assuming you mean documentation on paper), the help menu is actually pretty darn helpful with the searchable documentation on every Apple app (including for System Preferences). OS X is also geared towards being able to use multiple users, which accounts for needing to go through an extra hurdle or two to get things nice and smooth... but it is very possible.

But this sounds like a case where you are having problems getting your head around the changes to how the user interacts with the system (it is a pretty big change!). I don't think you need to put yourself through this if OS 9 did what you need it to do. I have family members still considering upgrading to OS 8, while others have grasped OS X quite readily (but are also new to computers, so they don't have to relearn everything they got used to with OS 9). Use whatever version of the OS works best for *you*.
 
Porteous - That Keychain Utility you keep mentioning was used prior to Panther, I don't think it works in 10.3. The Keychain Access app in your Utilities Folder will do this (look under the Windows menu in that Keychain Access for Keychain First Aid)

Probably would be worth the trouble to completely dump all your keychain files (along with any keychain prefs you can find), and let the System and Keychain create fresh new ones, as your present set does not seem to unlock properly (and doing most things without asking for a password should be normal with a properly setup keychain, if you have that level of security set correctly)

My take is:(FWIW) The system keeps asking you for permission to do certain tasks, Better than Windows doing things for you without your knowledge.

final note: I have seen this situation helped simply by changing your password in your Accounts pref pane. When you do that, you will be informed that the keychain password will be changed also. You can immediately change back to your 'normal' password. Resetting the keychain password through this process may help your other password problems as well.
 
Well when your done ranting and raving, and maybe cooled off a little bit, here is another place you can look at for your login problems.

First open up: System Preferences (it is accessible via the apple menu, or maybe on the dock, or in the Applications folder)

Look for the Accounts Icon - click on it

You should see a list of your user accounts on the left side. At the bottom of that is something called: Login Options - click on that.

You should now see several options on the right hand side, one of the should be:

Automatically log is as: (and drop down list of users).

Check the check box, and choose (I'm assuming your account) your account for auto-login.

Hopefully that should take care of any log in problems you my be having.

As far as you Mail.app problem, first a little more information vs. ranting would be helpful. Like for example, who are you using for your e-mail??? is the a .mac account or someone else??

It could be the mail server that you are using for you e-mail, it could be a corrupted preference for Mail.app itself, or it could have to do with the keychain.
 
porteous said:
Worse than that, it'll ask me for my wife's password - and keep on asking. I don't know what it currently is - why doesn't it ask her.... she can't remember either.
Click to expand...

Is it asking for your wife's password for her keychain, or for her account on the email server?

If it's the latter, the problem is probably with the mail server. I get that from time to time too - one of the mail servers I use periodically breaks. The thing is that it's not totally down; you can connect and try to log in, but it always refuses. It gives a message that indicates that you got your password wrong, but what's really happening is the software the server uses to check passwords is down. So, mail.app believes it, and asks me for a correct password. So I take the account offline, wait a couple of hours, bring the account back online, and it works again.

porteous said:
Yeah, Scruffy - it's really likely that that someone would want to hack into MY computer - imho, the most likely candidates would be the White House, the Pentagon or Number Ten.
Click to expand...

That shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how 99% of computer hacks happen. Your average hacker is not a supremely skilled, highly resourceful supervillain, it's a pimply teenager in his parents' basement who likes to hurt random people to get over his inferiority complex. He has a couple of automated tools that scan for some vulnerability, take advantage of it, and add your computer to a sort of zombie army the kid controls.

Maybe he doesn't want anything you have, he just wants to feel powerful, so he does stuff to scare you - leaves creepy messages for you, deletes important files (important to you that is - nobody would gain anything by reading my half-done term paper, but they could sure hurt me by trashing it), takes over your computer while you're using it...

I wish I had a source for this, but I read it a while ago (perhaps in a report about mafiaboy, that kid in quebec who took down a bunch of commercial websites) - a guy has a webcam on his computer for video chat or whatever. Some bored kid takes over his computer while he's using it, looks what he can see through the cam, sees the guy working away, and a young lady lying in bed in the background. So, just to see the guy scared, he pops up a message on his screen "hey loser, what are you doing using a computer when there's a girl in your bed?" No profit motive at all, the kid just wanted to kill a long boring evening by scaring people. And there's nothing uncommon about that example at all, it's just a good illustration.

Even if he has some goal in mind other than just to feel like a big man, the hacker doesn't know or care who you are, he just wants some resource you have. Some common ones:

- your internet connection, to launch attacks from - to do a distributed denial of service attack against a big company (take down their website, for example), you need a lot of bandwidth. The easiest way to get it is to steal a lot of home computers' internet connections.

The real danger though is if they're using your connection for a really advanced attack. They only want to use your computer to hide their tracks, so all the attacks seem to come from different places. So they launch an attack against someone who "matters" from your computer, then maybe they cover their tracks by erasing your HD. A common trick is to pass the attack through home computers in a number of countries - if the investigators would have to get collaboration from the cops in Taiwan, Finland, and Turkey just to track back their attacker, they'll likely just give up instead.

- your hard drive, to store incriminating files on - people who share hacking tools, or child porn, or warez, probably don't want the stuff lying around on their computers. So, they take over someone else's computer, put the stuff there, and run an FTP server using somebody else's bandwidth and storage space.

- your ISP account, to get free internet access with

- personal information that could be used profitably - you say you don't have anything to hide, but have you ever bought anything online? Then you probably either typed in your credit card number, or a paypal password. There are lots of keylogger programs that scans for website passwords, credit card numbers, etc. and send them back to someone.

If someone were to do that to me, they could take over my bank account, because I do my banking online. Not that I have a huge amount of money, but we're not talking about supercriminals here - a couple of thousand dollars is certainly worth the effort to some grumpy kid in India or Russia or wherever who wants to buy new jeans and a fancy watch...
 
naodx said:
Well when your done ranting and raving, and maybe cooled off a little bit....
Click to expand...
OK guys, I admit it - I went way over the top. And I have to thank you all for your patience and understanding. Yes - I was frustrated, and have been using OSX for some time - but there was no excuse. Some of it was a little bit alcohol-induced, I have to admit....

Thanks, too, for your many practical suggestions - especially Scruffy, naodx, DeltaMac and Krevinek - and all the others. You're a great bunch of people and it's much appreciated.

In reality, whatever I may have said, I wouldn't dream of moving away from the Mac - it's the greatest machine going, even with OSX ;-) I apologise for saying all those nasty things - I'm sure I'll get the hang of it eventually.

I'm tired right now from putting a long presentation together (no, really - I am just tired :) and I'll look at your latest suggestions tomorrow.

Thanks again, guys. ::love::
 
powermac said:
Sorry to hear that you are experiencing frustration. Your version of OSX is the same as everyone else. You should slow down a bit and realize what it is that you doing. My Mail.app has not asked me for my password since the day I set it up. If you get this frustrated with OSX, then Windows would not be a good idea for you. :D
Click to expand...

Porteus may be experiencing what I, at least, consider a bug, mail app will
ask for your password with the password dialog box and the check box
for add this to my keychain, if it tries to communicate with the pop3 or
imap (whichever flavor of mail server you are using) server and gets an
error during the initial protocol handshake between the mail client, on your
mac, and the mail server, somewhere on the internet, either via broadband
or over modem.

If you are like me and leave mail app running and shrunk down to the dock
all the time, it checks the mail server(s) periodically, you set this in the
mail app's preferences, how often, once a minute, once in five minutes, etc. If for some reason, say your cable modem or isp cannot get your packets to the mail server, or the connection drops mid stream, apple's mail app will pop up the dialog asking for your mail password.

I have wireless T1 at home, one of the wireless internet companies that use amplified 802.11b basically, an antenna here pointed down the mountain
to a tower on the valley floor about 3 miles away. There are times they
have network problems in their network, or I have signal flicker off, and if
that just happens to be the moment mail app is checking my dot-mac account for email, the dialog asking for my password, which is already in
they keychain, will pop up, every time. I enter it, click the box that says
remember my password, and click OK and it goes and tries to check my
mail again.

Perhaps this is one of the things or types of things that is happening. It has
the earmarks of an error condition in the program falling through a bunch
of if-then-else blocks and not being handled as a connectivity problem but
falling all the way out and being handled by a default, as Oh you must have
entered the wrong password, ask the user for the password again.

-I- think it is a bug, but perhaps this would help explain your problem and
anyone else's that this happens to, as it can seem quite mysterious and random, since there is no way of telling when there is going to be a problem.

I can make this problem happen whenever I want simply by having my mail
program running, and having it check my account once a minute, and when
it is starting to check the account, disable or turn off my router. After
some fiddling around you can catch it right, and it will sit there and then
pop up the Please enter your password dialog box.
 
I have a similar problem to porteous. I leave my Mail app running on OSX 10.3 all day, and after a while it pops up with the Enter Password for Account "account name" prompt. I think that I know why this happens...

Some time ago my ISP changed my account details, so I had to change my account name and password settings. I entered the new settings and the old were deleted - wrong, they still exist. I cannot access them but I know they are there. Occasionally Mail tries to use the old settings and fails to login, hence the prompt.

I know they are there because after a number months, the old account name started to appear on the title bar of Mail and a new Trash can appeared in the Mailboxes folder. I now have two separate accounts!

When I look in the Mail's preferences Accounts tab, there is only one account showing, the correct one. The bogus one lives on out of sight.

My problem will go away if I can somehow delete the old account. I only know of one way - a complete reinstall of OSX. This will take about a day and a half. There must be a quicker or more elegant way! BTW I have already reinstalled OSX after the initial install in order to change my admin short name - this seemed to be the only way to do this?

When I delete the bogus Mailbox from Mail, it works continuously for a while, then it justs adds the bogus account back and restores the same old problems again!

When I look in Keychain Access, there is only one entry for mail under "login", and no entries at all under "System". Running Keychain First Aid shows "No problems found".

That is why I think it is an account problem in my case.

porteous look in the Mailboxes sidebar of Mail and tell me whether you see any accounts under the Trash section that shouldn't be there. If so maybe we have the same problem.
 
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