PPC popularity

[Oscar Castillo]

For months I've been reading about PPC in XboxII. PPC in PSIII and perhaps even PPC in new Nintendo consoles. Which kinda gets me thinking about IBMs priorities in delivering these chips. Obviously any one of these consoles will outsell the combined sales of all Apple G5 systems, so I have to ask is whether the popularity of PPC hamper Apple's ability to get a steady supply considering that the PPC for the consoles is supposedly different than what you'd find in a PowerMac. Could this be another way to damage Apple by squeezing their supply chain? How will IBM keep up with the demand for processors if they're struggling to keep up now and wouldn't they have to cater to the largest customer?

 

[markceltic]

Maybe the "grey beards" here could speak more to this than I,but really hasn't Apple always had the problem of delivering the goods when they say they would?Whose fault is it? The suppliers of specific parts or the corporate structure of Apple itself.I can't really see IBM wanting to damage any customer for their products.

 

[Pengu]

I think you'll find that apple's problems have been caused usually by a delay in the CPU's being developed/fabricated. also, i believe the PS3 and Nintendo box will use a Cell processor which is architecturally simmilar to the PPC, but not exactly the same. as for xbox. i've heard it's using a three-core ppc cpu from ibm, which would need to be binary compatible with the G5 as they are using G5's to develop for it. i doubt IBM is going to sacrifice apple to help microsoft. apple helped develop the CPU & system controller for the G5's, so i can't imagine IBM turning around and saying "you'll get what we give you after MS has their share"

 

[ElDiabloConCaca]

It really doesn't matter what kind of chips the consoles use, anyway -- they always use chips that are readily available and much slower than their desktop counterparts.

The current XBox uses a 733MHz PIII chip. At the time it was released, the current maximum shipping clock speed on the PIII was well above 733MHz. Consoles don't need the fastest processor available, since they're fine-tuned to do quite well with slower processors.

Unless the XBox 2 utilizes a PPC chip running at the maximum current clock speed (which I guarantee it will not) it won't impact the availability of PPC-based desktop machines in the slightest.

IBM doesn't have any problems delivering a 2.0GHz PPC chip at the moment, and if the XBox utilizes that chip, it'll be one screaming-bad mother of a console.

 

[lnoelstorr]

It really doesn't matter what kind of chips the consoles use, anyway -- they always use chips that are readily available and much slower than their desktop counterparts.

That's not really true at all. Yes it's true of the XBox, but not really of any other console ever.

Most consoles, like the PS2 and GameCube for example, use custom built processors, and not 'readily available' chips at all.


From what I understand, the X-Box 2, N5 (the name commonly used for Nintendo's next console) and the PS3 will all be using IBM chips, however they will all be quite different.

The X-Box 2 will reportedly use 3 G5 processors (or processors very similar to the G5), the PS3 will use Cell technology processors (very interesting, multi-processor, parallel computing, stuff - developed jointly by Sony, IBM, and, I think, Toshiba), and little is known about the chip the N5 will use, but it will probably be another custom chip developed between Nintendo and IBM, like I understand the GameCube uses.

I don't know if any of this will have a negative or positive impact on G5 availability. However, what I am hoping is that with the X-Box 2 having a G5 based chip, it will hopefully mean more games will be ported over to the Mac.

 

[Pengu]

I can't see that being a direct result. Don't forget, the G5's they're using for development have a custom Windows NT kernel. Obviously microsoft didnt completely kill PPC NT back when they focused soley on x86.

I don't consider running windows NT on my g5 an option to play games. I mean. would YOU trust microsoft not to melt/damage/break your G5?

 

[lnoelstorr]

Yes, I guess they probably code to use Microsoft libraries (directX and all that), so unless developers start coding to the metal (which console makers never seem to encourage), then porting may not be that straight forward.

 

[fryke]

Well first: If IBM sees increased demand in their chips, they usually increase production. It's not like Xbox II, PS3 etc. come out of nowhere and suddenly there's no more PowerPC chips for Apple.

And as has been said before, those consoles will not use readily available PowerPC chips but rather have their own series, derived from the 'normal' PPC series.

I guess the fear that IBM will have less chips for Apple because of this is just not necessary...

 

[hulkaros]

Well first: If IBM sees increased demand in their chips, they usually increase production. It's not like Xbox II, PS3 etc. come out of nowhere and suddenly there's no more PowerPC chips for Apple.

And as has been said before, those consoles will not use readily available PowerPC chips but rather have their own series, derived from the 'normal' PPC series.

I guess the fear that IBM will have less chips for Apple because of this is just not necessary...

/offtopic

Hey FrykeMan! Hi there!

I would like to ask you this:
At least once a week I read your Mac related site which I find interesting, thank you very much!

Anyway, for some time now, I could not access it and used to get another page in german... I thought that it was something temporary... But nope! It was the normal thing:
http://macintosh.fryke.com/

While visiting this place and looking around I saw your link on your signature which while clicking on it, it leads you to the above link, it reads differently...

So, I typed the url as in:
http://macnews.net.tc
and voila! Here was one of my favorite sites! ::love::

What I'm trying to say with that story is that while you may want to let people know about your work, could you divide it in two links? Now, that I know what gives is not "trouble" for me anymore but I'm speaking for others who may/will have the same "troubles" as I had

/offtopic

 

[fryke]

Sadly, macintosh.fryke.com right now can't be linked to a different root. I just now noticed that my signature's link is wrong. Sowwy. -> Fixed.

 

[Krevinek]

I think you'll find that apple's problems have been caused usually by a delay in the CPU's being developed/fabricated. also, i believe the PS3 and Nintendo box will use a Cell processor which is architecturally simmilar to the PPC, but not exactly the same. as for xbox. i've heard it's using a three-core ppc cpu from ibm, which would need to be binary compatible with the G5 as they are using G5's to develop for it. i doubt IBM is going to sacrifice apple to help microsoft. apple helped develop the CPU & system controller for the G5's, so i can't imagine IBM turning around and saying "you'll get what we give you after MS has their share"

Sony is working with IBM on the cell processor for the PS3... the next Nintendo console is a little too far off to actually claim anything about it, but Nintendo has been using 68k chips in the Gameboy from the first, to the DS, and PPC chips since the N64 console (which was a modified 603e chip).

The tri-core PPC CPU rumor is a myth, as processor design would be a 2-core or 4-core, but not 3 cores. The place that brought that rumor up also said the XBox 2 would have 16MB of VRAM, which is barely enough for the video resolution, let alone the texture information needed for the ATI chip they claim to be using, so I wouldn't put much stake in that rumor.

As for MS using G5 chips... anything is a rumor until an anouncement.

 

[lnoelstorr]

The tri-core PPC CPU rumor is a myth, as processor design would be a 2-core or 4-core, but not 3 cores.

I thought the 3 core thing was odd, as I felt surely a multiple (or even a power) of two would make a lot more sense.

Though I guess the 3 processors may not be working as a multi-processor. The DS for example has two processors, but they both run individually, and don't work as a single unit (if any of that makes sense - I don't think I explained it well).

As for MS using G5 chips... anything is a rumor until an anouncement.

From what I understand several developers have already received G5 development machines for working on games for the X-Box 2.

 

[hulkaros]

Sadly, macintosh.fryke.com right now can't be linked to a different root. I just now noticed that my signature's link is wrong. Sowwy. -> Fixed.

Many thanks!

 

[JetwingX]

From what I understand several developers have already received G5 development machines for working on games for the X-Box 2.

If i remember correctly, a HUGE shipment of G5s was sent to Microshafts HQ (like 50 of um) and there are pictures of it around here somewhere

 

[ElDiabloConCaca]

Yep -- it was an intern/temp worker that took the pictures of the G5 boxes being unloaded at one of Microsoft's buildings. Needless to say, that's a huge security breach and he didn't stay employed there.