problems restarting Black Macbook (10.5.8)

processor93

Registered
i got a new optical drive about a month ago, tried installing it myself following instructions but messed up in reassembly - HD not recognized. so i took it to tekserve, they did it right, and all was supposedly good.

then last week i had two restarts getting the circle/slash after the apple. i realized i was restarting with a 3rd party peripheral connected (just a USB audio in/out stick), and restarting without it solved the issue.

then i started having this issue: starting up hangs on the apple and spinning wheel. i zapped the PRAM a few times and that did the trick at first. but then back to the same issue.

i was able to start up in safe mode just fine last week. rescued a few files off of it, then was able to restart normally.

while i had it on, i tried to install apple's recent update for the flashback trojan. it said there was no application to update. so i downloaded and tried to install the original update (which i thought i had). neither the normal installer nor pacifist would install the files. i got an error with a long number.

since then, it won't start up. i tried doing the "reset" (powering off, unplugging, removing the battery for a minute, then trying again, but no luck.
in fact right now i tried safe mode and it hangs.

but get this: my drive is half bootcamp, and windows starts up and works just fine.

the mac side starts off the install disk just fine. disk utility says the drive and all permissions are fine (fixed one permission).

also, i was able to start up in firewire mode and see the contents from another computer. but here's the catch to that, which could be part of the overall problem:

for some reason, there has always seemed to be two different sections of my mac, that have identical folders of everything, except the contents are different. if i use the shortcuts in the left menu, i get what i use 99% of the time. if i just go to the HD and look, the folders are all the same, but some files are missing because i created/copied/modified them through the left menu.

maybe the main section is under my username? that is inaccessible via firewire. the part that is firewire-accessible is maybe some kind of public folder?

anyone have any ideas as to the cause and possible solution?
 
Last edited:

DeltaMac

Tech
One reason that you might see very similar sets of folders twice on your MacBook, that you have reinstalled OS X, using an Archive & Install option. That will leave a folder with much of your system files. They will all be inside another folder named "Previous Systems". If Tekserve needed to reinstall OS X, possibly that's when that happened. You could simply trash that folder "Previous Systems", and be sure to empty the trash. Right now, it may only be confusing you....
Finally, that "prohibited" symbol at boot often means that there's a problem with the system software. An OS X reinstall (again using that archive & install option) will probably take care of that issue. And, make sure that your hard drive is set as the default in your Startup Disk pref pane.
 

processor93

Registered
thanks for the advice. tekserve did not reinstall OSX, and the dual versions (depending on how i looked at them) were that way long before this issue. they are not my system files, they are document files.

for example, let's say i have a shortcut folder on the left called "WORK". if i click on that as i usually do, i see all the subfolders i've been working on. but if i look at the same folder by navigating to it another way (such as from the HD icon). not all the files/folders are the most recent versions or even there at all.

since i do still have my 10.5.2 install disks and a working optical drive, i guess i can try the "archive and install" option tonight and hope that works.

i'll keep this thread updated, thanks!
 

DeltaMac

Tech
Probably just little misplaced alias. That sidebar WORK icon is likely taking you to a different location, probably down in a sub-folder somewhere.
If the sidebar icon "WORK" takes you to the correct files, you can right-click on that sidebar icon, and choose "Open Enclosing Folder", which will then take you to that location, with your actual "WORK" folder selected.
If you boot to your OS X installer DVD, first step is to open Disk Utility (from the Utilities menu), and click on the hard drive, then click the Repair Disk button (different from Repair Disk Permissions)). If that Repair Disk completes without problems, then continue with the OS X reinstall, click the Options button on the screen where you select the destination drive. Choose Archive & Install, along with the option to save your files and settings. That reinstall will take you back to 10.5.2 - so run your Software Update after the first restart, until your system is back up-to-date!
 
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processor93

Registered
thanks! i think actually already ran "repair disk" but not from the install disk. will do that first.

i'm not really sure about your alias idea. when i did a search on the whole computer for a file i KNOW is there inside that folder, it did not find it. and it is not in the version of the folder i could get to when i mounted the drive with firewire from another machine.
 

DeltaMac

Tech
Keep in mind that "Repair Disk" is NOT the same as "Repair Disk Permissions"(which is NOT what you want to do, and permissions will not likely help your situation). You must be booted to a different system (like your installer DVD) to run a Disk Repair.

You said that you can see all your files when you click on the WORK icon in your sidebar.
Is that still correct?
Where do you go when you right-click on that sidebar icon, and click Open Enclosing Folder? That should take to you to the folder that has your WORK folder - and that should be the correct one.
Your Spotlight, by default, does not go into system file folders, nor into the Library. The WORK icon should NOT point to one of those locations - but it's still a possibility. That would explain why a normal search does NOT find what you want.
Does the right-click (Open Enclosing Folder) on the WORK icon help you at all?
 

jbarley

One more, for the road!
Do yourself a favor and download and install "EasyFind".
Once installed, run it and do a search for a file, one you suspect you have duplicates of.
EasyFind will show you every instance of this file, complete with location paths.
A right click on any file will take you to the files location.
As a bonus, there is no better way to completely uninstall any application then with an EasyFind "search, select all, destroy", this will remove all traces and support files for the application selected, far more thorough then any of the so-called app-remover applications.
 

processor93

Registered
ok. so i reinstalled OS 10.5.2 off the original disks using archive&install. everything went smoothly, the computer gave me two gongs and made it to the desktop with all my files and settings intact. lovely!

but of course, i was back in 10.5.2. so i immediately checked for software updates and of course saw the Combined 10.5.8 update package (as well as itunes 10.6.3). so i said yes to both.

it went through the update, restarted, and...now i'm back to the stage where it gets past the apple, then goes to a blue screen (which usually precedes it going black, the color of my desktop)...then the blue screen shuts off...and comes back for 30 seconds...and keeps doing that.

i guess i should have checked out that duplication issue while i had things up and running in 10.5.2. but i've been running 10.5.8 this whole time and had no reason to think an apple update would send me back to this startup loop hell.

i guess i will try it AGAIN tonight, and then use this "EasyFind" to try to solve any duplication/conflict problems.

maybe i can also install/run the Flashback virus finder/remover and updater in case that is one of the issues.

thanks for all your help everyone.
 
Last edited:

DeltaMac

Tech
Can you start up OK in Safe Boot mode?
Restart, holding the shift key, until you see the spinning gear under the grey apple icon.
Safe Boot mode will take you to the Login window, so you can also choose to login to a different user, if that will help...
 

jbarley

One more, for the road!
Also when you get to installing the "updates", maybe try them 1 at a time starting with the 10.5.8 update.
This way maybe you can isolate the problem.
 

sgould

Registered
If you find two items with the same name. Open the window. Hold down the Cmd key and click on the window name at the top of the window. You will see the directory tree and you can work your way back to were it's hiding.
 

processor93

Registered
ok. just like before, I am able to boot in Safe Mode. made it to the desktop. now I can describe the exact issue I'm having with the duplicates.

The folder(s) I apparently use most often, which have aliases in the left menu, are under MY username. they exist at computername / HDname / Users / username / folder name. however, when I look directly at the HD, there are folders identical to the others existing at computer name / HDname / foldername, which have slightly different files in them due to my thinking they were the same folder.

I don't know what, if anything, this has to do with my main problem, unless the dual sets of files have caused severe directory confusion. in any case, which directory is the "real" one? Or rather, the best place to keep my files? I know that when mounting it as a FireWire drive, I am unable to see the contents of whatever is under the username directory, probably because I need to be logged in as that user to access it, which a mounted FireWire drive does not allow. Whereas the files not under my username are public/shared.

the strange thing is that disk utility claims the disk and permissions are all fine. so what is going on that keeps the computer from teaching the desktop in normal boot mode? What could it be trying to load between the blue screen and the desktop that sends it into an endless loop?
 
Last edited:

DeltaMac

Tech
Folders and documents that you have created, and that have your own created documents. - should normally (best location) be in your own user folder.
If you want to share those files, or simply have easy access to them, then they should be in the folder computername/HDname/Users/Shared. Again, that would be the best location for sharing your own documents with other users, or when providing network access to your computer.

The "real" folder is the one that you use.
The other folder (likely the one at the root of the hard drive), isn't likely because of problems with your directory - but more likely simply a misstep made at some point, and now probably is just confusing you. If that folder at the root has active files (check the file dates), then maybe a good idea to move those files to the "real" folder in your user folder.

I think you should try to determine what is causing the crash, although I would guess it's a Finder crash. You can open your Console (in your Applications/Utilities folder), and view the system.log, which will be listed by date and time. Look at entries that would be from about the time of your last startup that gets into that repeating loop. You can post a few lines from about that time, and someone here will try to interpret what is showing in that log.
 

processor93

Registered
there's still a bit of a lag on things like email and browser (spinning rainbow). but yes, i want to know what the hell happened.

by the way, i DID install the 2012-003 anti-flashback update while in safe mode.

I think you should try to determine what is causing the crash, although I would guess it's a Finder crash. You can open your Console (in your Applications/Utilities folder), and view the system.log, which will be listed by date and time. Look at entries that would be from about the time of your last startup that gets into that repeating loop. You can post a few lines from about that time, and someone here will try to interpret what is showing in that log.
ok this seems to be the last time after i reinstalled the system and then updated to 10.5.8 that i had the blue screen loop issue:


7/3/12 6:42:37 AM com.apple.launchctl.System[2] launchctl: Dubious ownership on file (skipping): /Library/LaunchDaemons/com.apple.aelwriter.plist
7/3/12 6:42:37 AM com.apple.launchctl.System[2] launchctl: Dubious ownership on file (skipping): /Library/LaunchDaemons/com.apple.qmaster.qmasterd.plist
7/3/12 6:42:38 AM com.apple.launchctl.System[2] launchctl: Please convert the following to launchd: /etc/mach_init.d/dashboardadvisoryd.plist
7/3/12 6:42:38 AM com.apple.launchd[1] (com.apple.usbmuxd) Unknown key for boolean: EnableTransactions
7/3/12 6:42:38 AM com.apple.launchd[1] (org.cups.cupsd) Unknown key: SHAuthorizationRight
7/3/12 6:42:38 AM com.apple.launchd[1] (org.ntp.ntpd) Unknown key: SHAuthorizationRight
7/3/12 6:42:38 AM com.apple.launchd[1] (org.x.privileged_startx) Unknown key for boolean: EnableTransactions
7/3/12 6:42:38 AM com.apple.launchd[1] (com.rogueamoeba.hermes) Path monitoring failed on "/usr/local/hermes": No such file or directory
7/3/12 6:42:38 AM com.apple.launchd[1] (com.apple.aslmanager) Path monitoring failed on "/var/log/asl": No such file or directory
7/3/12 6:42:43 AM com.apple.launchd[1] (com.rogueamoeba.hermes[42]) posix_spawnp("/usr/local/hermes/bin/hermesctl", ...): No such file or directory
7/3/12 6:42:43 AM com.apple.launchd[1] (com.rogueamoeba.hermes[42]) Exited with exit code: 1
7/3/12 6:42:43 AM com.apple.launchd[1] (com.rogueamoeba.hermes) Path monitoring failed on "/usr/local/hermes": No such file or directory
7/3/12 6:42:58 AM com.apple.su.startup[20] Checking for securityd
7/3/12 6:42:59 AM com.apple.su.startup[20] Running auth_sys_print_admin tool
7/3/12 6:43:00 AM com.apple.su.startup[20] Cleaning up startup script resources
7/3/12 6:44:25 AM com.apple.SystemStarter[17] debug.bpf_bufsize: 4096 -> 524288
7/3/12 6:44:28 AM com.apple.loginwindow[26] AuthorizationRef doesn't have a username (<LoginAuthRefMgr: 0x52f050>). Exiting.
7/3/12 6:44:28 AM com.apple.launchd[1] (com.apple.UserEventAgent-LoginWindow[116]) Exited: Terminated
7/3/12 6:44:53 AM com.apple.loginwindow[168] AuthorizationRef doesn't have a username (<LoginAuthRefMgr: 0x532860>). Exiting.
7/3/12 6:44:53 AM com.apple.launchd[1] (com.apple.UserEventAgent-LoginWindow[177]) Exited: Terminated
7/3/12 6:45:18 AM com.apple.loginwindow[184] AuthorizationRef doesn't have a username (<LoginAuthRefMgr: 0x532850>). Exiting.
7/3/12 6:45:18 AM com.apple.launchd[1] (com.apple.UserEventAgent-LoginWindow[188]) Exited: Terminated
7/3/12 6:45:43 AM com.apple.loginwindow[194] AuthorizationRef doesn't have a username (<LoginAuthRefMgr: 0x52f3a0>). Exiting.
7/3/12 6:45:43 AM com.apple.launchd[1] (com.apple.UserEventAgent-LoginWindow[198]) Exited: Terminated
7/3/12 6:46:09 AM com.apple.loginwindow[205] AuthorizationRef doesn't have a username (<LoginAuthRefMgr: 0x52f2a0>). Exiting.
7/3/12 6:46:19 AM com.apple.launchd[1] (com.apple.UserEventAgent-LoginWindow[209]) Exited: Terminated
7/3/12 6:46:46 AM com.apple.loginwindow[216] AuthorizationRef doesn't have a username (<LoginAuthRefMgr: 0x5372c0>). Exiting.
7/3/12 6:46:46 AM com.apple.launchd[1] (com.apple.UserEventAgent-LoginWindow[234]) Exited: Terminated

i used it in windows for the next few hours, then i must have tried again and got this:

7/3/12 3:52:48 PM com.apple.launchctl.System[2] fsck_hfs: Volume is journaled. No checking performed.
7/3/12 3:52:48 PM com.apple.launchctl.System[2] fsck_hfs: Use the -f option to force checking.
7/3/12 3:52:51 PM com.apple.launchctl.System[2] launchctl: Dubious ownership on file (skipping): /Library/LaunchDaemons/com.apple.aelwriter.plist
7/3/12 3:52:51 PM com.apple.launchctl.System[2] launchctl: Dubious ownership on file (skipping): /Library/LaunchDaemons/com.apple.qmaster.qmasterd.plist
7/3/12 3:52:52 PM com.apple.launchctl.System[2] launchctl: Please convert the following to launchd: /etc/mach_init.d/dashboardadvisoryd.plist
7/3/12 3:52:52 PM com.apple.launchd[1] (com.apple.usbmuxd) Unknown key for boolean: EnableTransactions
7/3/12 3:52:52 PM com.apple.launchd[1] (org.cups.cupsd) Unknown key: SHAuthorizationRight
7/3/12 3:52:52 PM com.apple.launchd[1] (org.ntp.ntpd) Unknown key: SHAuthorizationRight
7/3/12 3:52:52 PM com.apple.launchd[1] (org.x.privileged_startx) Unknown key for boolean: EnableTransactions
7/3/12 3:52:52 PM com.apple.launchd[1] (com.rogueamoeba.hermes) Path monitoring failed on "/usr/local/hermes": No such file or directory
7/3/12 3:52:57 PM com.apple.launchd[1] (com.rogueamoeba.hermes[40]) posix_spawnp("/usr/local/hermes/bin/hermesctl", ...): No such file or directory
7/3/12 3:52:57 PM com.apple.launchd[1] (com.rogueamoeba.hermes[40]) Exited with exit code: 1
7/3/12 3:52:57 PM com.apple.launchd[1] (com.rogueamoeba.hermes) Path monitoring failed on "/usr/local/hermes": No such file or directory
7/3/12 3:53:09 PM org.ntp.ntpd[13] Error : nodename nor servname provided, or not known
7/3/12 3:53:11 PM com.apple.SystemStarter[16] debug.bpf_bufsize: 4096 -> 524288
7/3/12 3:53:40 PM com.apple.loginwindow[24] AuthorizationRef doesn't have a username (<LoginAuthRefMgr: 0x5372c0>). Exiting.
7/3/12 3:53:40 PM com.apple.launchd[1] (com.apple.UserEventAgent-LoginWindow[106]) Exited: Terminated
7/3/12 3:54:05 PM com.apple.loginwindow[114] AuthorizationRef doesn't have a username (<LoginAuthRefMgr: 0x5372c0>). Exiting.
7/3/12 3:54:05 PM com.apple.launchd[1] (com.apple.UserEventAgent-LoginWindow[118]) Exited: Terminated

after that is when i started up in safe mode and it worked.

i'm back in normal mode, though it's making me log in again (i haven't had it set to do that for years). everything seems to be ok, but i'm wary. was it flashback? something else i did? how do i keep this from happening again?
 

DeltaMac

Tech
Your reinstalls may have reset the auto-login, or even locked out the setting (even if it is set properly) If you prefer the automatic login, then open your Accounts pref pane, click on the padlock to unlock that pane, then click the Login Options button at the bottom of the user account list. Click the Automatic Login, and choose OFF from the list.
Restart your Mac, which definitely should show the login screen. Log in, then go back to System Prefs/Accounts. Unlock again, then Login Options, and change the Auto Login back to your user from the list. When you next restart, then you should go back to your normal auto-login. You can try that if you like.

There's several references to rogue amoeba in your log entries.
You have some of that software installed, like AirFoil or Audio Hijack Pro.
with the reinstalls and updates, that might be corrupted in some way.
try uninstalling whatever rogue amoeba apps you have, then reinstall if you still need that. Make sure that software is up-to-date. Newest versions from RA may be too new for your 10.5 system. For example Audio Hijack Pro latest (v.3.10) requires OS X 10.6 or higher.
Your Leopard system would be limited to v.2.9.9a - available on this page: http://rogueamoeba.com/legacy/

Could be that getting your rogue amoeba software properly reinstalled might help.
Be sure to also (again) install your 10.5.8 combined updater. I often read about issues that appear, especially after several OS X updates have been installed. The combined updater can sometimes help out, so be sure to give that another try. If you don't have that downloaded by itself, get it here: http://support.apple.com/kb/DL866
 

processor93

Registered
yes, you're correct that I have audio hijack pro, but I haven't reinstalled any new versions. I will check all such apps and see if I can do without them.

for now things are generally ok except for one new glitch . perhaps a key is constantly depressed or something, but I am having spinning rainbow slowdowns only when using Mail or Safari. Even worse, when I type. the cursor will randomly jump to a different place in the field I'm typing, sometimes even select a word or two so my typing gets completely screwed up. I don't know if this is related to the original issue or not (if certain. keys in the keyboard are making contact inside constantly, that could impede startup ).
 

DeltaMac

Tech
Check your keyboard using the Keyboard Viewer available in the International pref pane/Input Menu tab. Check the box beside Keyboard Viewer and it will appear under the "flag' menu in your menu bar. Click on that item, and you'll see an on-screen representation of your keyboard. You can press (and release) each key, in turn. You can use that to quickly decide if any keys are sticking, or just a little slow in releasing (or even if they respond at all.)
 
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