Real is trying to fight against iTMS ...

Nope. Not a chance. Especially since apple will eventually block the playability of Real tracks on the iPod.
 
What do you mean 'Real quality'? Those are 192 kbps AACs IIRC, which means they're better than 'the real thing' (i.e. Apple's 128 kbps AAC files). The problem with Apple's firmware: Well, you don't _have_ to install a newer version. Just listen around whether some new firmware disables the playing of Real's tracks, then stop upgrading. In a worst case scenario, you could still translate those AACs to Apple AACs through CD burning. You'd lose a bit of quality by that, but you'd still have access to the songs.

However: I hope Apple doesn't do _anything_ against Real's market attack. I'm pretty sure that Apple's now in the position to just ignore them. Playing pride and suing Real won't do Apple's and iPod's image much good.

Also to consider: Harmony, right now, doesn't work on Macs AFAIK.
 
Sorry to dig up an old thread, but it's become extremely relevant as of late...

http://news.com.com/Apple+fights+RealNetworks+hacker+tactics/2100-1027_3-5490604.html

It seems that Apple quietly disabled Real-bought AAC files (Harmony files, if I'm not mistaken) in a firmware update to the new iPod photo. I was perusing the macnn.com forums, reading reader's comments, and one reader was a little preturbed by Apple's move and said something to the effect of, "It should be the user's choice what music goes on the iPod, as, afterall, it is the user's iPod."

I thought that was a little off... kind of like saying, "It's my VCR, I should be able to choose to play DVDs on it." The whole idea behind Harmony and the iTMS and the formats supported on the iPod is just that: format. You buy a VCR knowing that you only get to play VHS tapes in it. You purchase a DVD player knowing that you can't stick a VHS tape into it.

You buy an iPod knowing that you're limited to unprotected file formats (with the exception of WMA) and music purchased from the iTMS. You don't buy an iPod with the expectations of playing DVDs or audio cassettes on it, nor do you purchase an iPod with the hopes of using music from WalMart's music store, or Real's music store. Those who do probably aren't as experienced with the whole online music store phenomenon -- they may be mildly disappointed that they can't use WalMart/Real/Sam's/Microsoft music stores, but the overall happiness with the iPod and the iTMS will negate that.

I think Real struck at the wrong time. There isn't a big uprising of dissatisfied iPod owners demanding that the choice of music they can use be widened to other online music stores. I'm sure there are a few out there -- probably as many as those who want their old VCRs to play DVDs. It hasn't become an epidemic. Sales of iPods are growing, not slipping. If this were 3 years in the future and the movement had enough backing, Real might have gotten some support, but for now, the Harmony project died because of lack of interest, I think -- or lack of usefulness.
 
All you have to do is go to the old Real online petition (where they demanded Apple return control of the iPod to the consumers) and read thousands of Real-bashing Macattacks :p.

Harmony was a stupid idea to begin with; if you want to be the best, don't try to conquer the best; join them.

And then throw away every shred of anything that is called Real... maybe add RA and RAM file playback to QT.
 
I agree that people are probably content with the iPod, even if they notice that it doesn't play other online stores' music. However, you can't really name iPod and iTunes such a good package yet. At least not in all the countries where iTMS just isn't AVAILABLE. And at the time Real did that Harmony thing, iTMS was nowhere to be seen in Europe, Canada, Australia, Asia... In many parts of the world, it's _still_ not available.

However, I too think that Real should just shut up about it. Apple has made clear that it would eventually 'fix' the firmware. And now they did.
 
The VCR > DVD / iPod > "some other music player" argument doesn't wash.

The VCR makers didn't have a "policy" in forcing users to use only VHS tapes; it's a physical limitation. Apple (along with any other digital music player manufacturer) has a choice as to let users decide what to put on it. Digital rights management aside, it's quite easy for the manufacturers and music sellers to embrace each other.

Personally I bought my iPod a while ago assuming I could get my music on there no matter what the source (at the time it was my own CD collection). I believe iTunes and the iPod would be a better product if it was more friendly to other formats.
 
But why, then? Why would Apple want to open up the iPod for other music stores? That's silly... they would be silently encouraging people to get music from other places. If I ran a business, I would not want to encourage people to use competitors.

We might as well be whining to Sony to stndardize their memory sticks so we can use them in our Canon cameras.

Just because something is possible doesn't automatically make it something worth pursuing (and most definitely not from a business standpoint). The iPod may be a more compatible product by opening up, but do we want our money going to Apple or Wal-Mart?
 
ElDiablo: Were the iPod open to other formats, it would be the choice of the consumer whether his money went to Wal-Mart or Apple. Also, as to your earlier analogy, there are devices on the market that do play both VCR and DVD; the iPod was capable of accepting different formats as well until Apple chose to disable that with the new firmware. As Apple makes more money selling iPods than iTunes, it would seem to be in both its own interest and that of the consumer to keep its platform open to the most formats.
 
andychrist said:
ElDiablo: Were the iPod open to other formats, it would be the choice of the consumer whether his money went to Wal-Mart or Apple. Also, as to your earlier analogy, there are devices on the market that do play both VCR and DVD; the iPod was capable of accepting different formats as well until Apple chose to disable that with the new firmware. As Apple makes more money selling iPods than iTunes, it would seem to be in both its own interest and that of the consumer to keep its platform open to the most formats.
Click to expand...

The iPod was never capable of accepting Real's format. Real's format just fooled the iPod into thinking it was an aceptable format. Big difference. Apple warned them that the functionality may/would be disabled, and it was.

While opening the iPod may be beneficial to the consumer, what business in its right mind would do that? Why would they want to take business away from their own store?

I'm all about consumer choice, but there's plenty of choice with the iPod: use any of your own music, or buy ours. What other options do you want? What other options are there? It's like saying all Windows computers should be able to run Macintosh applications and vice-versa... but, you choose Windows, you get Windows-specific applications. Choose Mac, get Mac-specific.

I just don't see how opening the iPod to be able to use competitors' music is beneficial to Apple. Sure, the iPod would be a play-it-all device, but at the expense of lost profits to Apple incurred by music purchased through competitors. That doesn't make sense to me.
 
I think I understand your point, ElDiablo, but I generally disagree. The iPod is weaker as a product in my opinion because of the closed system. Closed systems, while maybe good for a company in the short term, eventually get in the way.

This closed system remains the number 1 reason on my small list of iPod complaints that I cite to people, and if people want more choice in an MP3 player, they should stay away from the iPod.

You can continue to speak on Apple's behalf, but when you look at it from the consumer standpoint, you should be able to understand my point of view.
 
ElDiabloConCaca said:
I just don't see how opening the iPod to be able to use competitors' music is beneficial to Apple. Sure, the iPod would be a play-it-all device, but at the expense of lost profits to Apple incurred by music purchased through competitors. That doesn't make sense to me.
Click to expand...
I thought Apple isn't making any money off the iTMS. :)
 
MDLarson said:
I thought Apple isn't making any money off the iTMS. :)
Click to expand...
That is correct. The iTMS is slightly in the black. However, if Apple reduced its revenue, it would lose money and be in the red.
 
The think I don't like about Sr. Caca's position it presupposed that companies should have the right to control my actions simply because I have purchased something form them. i bout the iPod (well a mini) and I want to do with it what I will. It amazes the tyrannies that people see as just when they are perpetrated by companies that they would never tolerate from governments. You are made a slave either way.

Has anyone seen my meds....;)
 
ElDiabloConCaca said:
It's like saying all Windows computers should be able to run Macintosh applications and vice-versa... but, you choose Windows, you get Windows-specific applications. Choose Mac, get Mac-specific.
Click to expand...

Another poor analogy. We may have to buy different applications for Mac and Windows but we expect to be able to open similar files created by them on either platform.

Though in all honesty I really don't expect Apple to open the iPod to competitors... nor do I really care.
 
texanpenguin said:
Harmony was a stupid idea to begin with; if you want to be the best, don't try to conquer the best; join them.
Click to expand...
I thought they wanted to do that, but Steve turned them down.
 
Real totally sucks. They're such a horrible horrible company. Nothing ever "REAL" about them since all their stuff is STREAMING. Bah. iTMS is the best nothinless. Doesnt sound like 128kbps to me. Sounds at least like 192 to me.
 
From a consumer standpoint, obviously the iPod would be at its best by being able to play virtually any file format. That's a no-brainer.

From a business standpoint, Apple is playing it wisely. While Steve has claimed that ITMS is a trojan horse to sell more iPods, that is just the short term plan. ITMS, did (as of last keynote) turn a slight profit. That's just the beginning. From here on out ITMS will be a money making juggernaut. (I'm talking in the years ahead, not today or tomorrow).

Eventually the iPods and other players will saturate the market and the only thing left will be the online music stores to generate money (consistently and in big amounts). It's like VCRs (or soon DVD players). Everybody's got one. Nobody needs a VCR unless their old one breaks. But we keep renting and buying tapes and now DVDs (and next year HD-DVDs). Granted, Apple can keep creating the sense of need for a new iPod for quite a while (photo iPod, video iPod, entertainment center iPod, etc.), but for the masses it will saturate as a music player eventually.

And plus, Apple needs to kill all competitors who are killable. Real (Harmony) is killable. It would only be bad news to let Real survive and fester.
 
Apple Computer, Inc.
Software License Agreement
Single Use License: iPod
1) General
"The software (including Boot ROM code)....on any other media or in any other form are licensed, not sold, to you by Apple Computer, Inc."

"...you own the media on which the Apple software is recorded but Apple...retains ownership of the Apple Software itself"

2) Permitted License Uses and Restrictions.
"...Except as and only to the extent expressly permitted in this License by applicable law, you may not copy, decompile, reverse engineer, dissasemble, attempt to derive the source code of, modify, or create derivative works of the Apple Software or any part thereof. Any attempt to do so is a violation of the rights of Apple and its licensors of the Apple software. If you breach this restrction, you may be subject to prosecution,"

End-user agreements do not discriminate and make it clear to those who own the product what their "rights" are. Real and their minions can protest against Apple's move but it was legal and correct.

I think there is a certain bias when we talk about the consumer standpoint. I live in a metropolis and people are clueless about the iPod and MP3 Players. They think it is a GPS device, special cellphone or satellite radio. So I explain to them the process and they say "oh, okay".."what is it again?" I have found women are easier to convince to buy an iPod Mini because they like the design, ease of use, and the idea that all their music is tucked away in their pocket without all the fuss.

My last point is that an open format iPod is not a wise decision on Apple's part. Their integration of hardware and software makes it a much better product already. Besides, Apple already supports different formats on the iPod. Just not from Microsoft or Real.
 
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