Right-click MacBooks — when?

Veljo

Veljo

Mac Enthusiast
With the release of the Mighty Mouse, Apple have finally entered the right-click and scroll ball world that PC users have enjoyed for years.

Now after the introduction of the two fingered scrolling capabilities found on MacBooks and Powerbooks, when do you think Apple will finally introduce a right-click and halve that giant single button underneath the trackpad?

Personally if I ever bought a MacBook Pro I'd always make sure I had a mouse handy, simply because I can't stand Control-clicking anything.

Thoughts?
 
IMO the problem is as soon as Apple start endorsing right clicking, Mac OS X apps run the risk of falling into the usability trap of relying on it too much. Windows apps practice sloppy interface design that sees important functions hidden in contextual menus. Anyone who has worked in tech support will tell you right mouse buttons do NOT make people's life easier.

The Mighty Mouse is good because it can be used as a right button mouse, but it still looks like and defaults to a single button. That way right-click functions are only used by tech-savvy people who understand what it is and how to use it (and how to enable right-clicking in the first place).

It would be nice if the same functionality was built into MacBooks, with it shipping as single button, but a setting in system prefs exists where the right side of the single button is for right-clicking, the the left side for left clicking.
 
I don't like multiple button mice at all and don't use them. Apple's (or PARC's) original reasoning was correct.

One button means your brain wastes no time deciding which button to press.
 
Instead it works to find the option on the screen? Why not have both? So one can choose...

Regardless, Apple will never have a right click notebook, just like it will never have a right click mouse, or intel processor.

:)
 
pjeski said:
I don't agree with that at all.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, people certainly don't share one, universal opinion. Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks. :p

Apple has it right in a lot of different ways -- most importantly, the "80% rule".

If Apple designed for "power-users" and introduced people to the Mac experience with a multi-button experience, a lot of people would be turned off -- believe it or not, but us tech-junkie, power-user, contextual menu freaks are NOT the majority.

Casual home users are the majority -- the kind that like to click on an icon and see an application launch. The kind that click on an email to read it. The kind that double-click a PDF and see it in Preview. The kind that click menus instead of using keyboard shortcuts. Everything is in plain view with one click -- not the fastest way to move about by any means, but arguably the most intuitive and "easiest" way to do it. Hey, a weed-whacker is probably the fastest way to chop lettuce for a salad, but to do it elegantly would require skill that 80% of us don't possess.

In addition, some power-users are single-click kinds of people.

Apple has designed their operating as a true "point-and-click" OS... just point, and click. But they've also allowed the ability to right-click and to use keyboard shortcuts to access frequently used or advanced features instead of requiring it, much like Windows does. Tell me: how does one create a new folder on your Windows desktop without right-clicking or using a keyboard shortcut?

Pro users can navigate using command-click just fractions of a second slower than they can right-click. Is it really those fractions of a second that determine how productive and creative you are? Or, perhaps, is it really that the creativity and ease-of-use just flows more easily on a Mac, despite their operating system not being designed around the speed at which one can navigate?
 
ElDiabloConCaca said:
Pro users can navigate using command-click just fractions of a second slower than they can right-click. Is it really those fractions of a second that determine how productive and creative you are? Or, perhaps, is it really that the creativity and ease-of-use just flows more easily on a Mac, despite their operating system not being designed around the speed at which one can navigate?
Click to expand...
Some people just love gadgets. The more buttons and thingys to press and fool around with the happier they are. They never stop to wonder if these thingys are actually helping them do the job any better.
 
simbalala said:
Some people just love gadgets. The more buttons and thingys to press and fool around with the happier they are. They never stop to wonder if these thingys are actually helping them do the job any better.
Click to expand...
Well, expecting a company to satisfy 100% of their user base is ridiculous. There is no company in the world that markets to every, single possible user. Apple is marketing to the majority, which is exactly what they should be doing -- being a publicly traded, profitable company.

You're right in insinuating that having more tools at your disposal doesn't always mean you're more productive. You can have 1,000 different screwdrivers on your workbench, but if all you do is install hard drives, only one of those thousands of screwdrivers is going to get you anywhere.

If you want gadgetry, try Linux... there's a reason it's free: it doesn't sell well, since a very small percentage of people can actually use Linux reasonably well. Compare the amount of cash that Redhat has vs. what Apple has, and you'll see what marketing for the masses vs. marketing for the geeks is all about.
 
As a former windows user, adept in right clicking......

After a couple of days, the Cmd + click worked fine when I needed it. I admit, I am not a normal user though. We had Sparcs and whatnot at work, and I used Linux as my primary OS for years (dipping into windows to play games and use a few apps here and there).

BTW, Linux is free not because it doesn't sell well, but because that was the whole idea behind it. Redhat has done very well selling a "free" OS, although I think there are better distro's out there. There's a lot more Linux boxes out there than you might think.
 
Well, I'd sure hate to run Windows on a MacBook Pro with the single button, that's for sure. Maybe that's a good thing? ;)

I don't think it would be too hard for Apple to make a two-way setup on their laptops. By default, make it one button, like the MightyMouse, but have that second button there waiting to be turned on. I just hope they don't use that logic-defying click detection system they use with the MM. Give me an actual, physical CLICK any day. They could make two buttons that look like one. Put two actual triggers underneath it so that pushing one side clicks one and the other clicks the other. Problem solved.

I agree that standardizing the second button would promote poor UI design, but...well, unfortunately it seems the single button isn't stopping Apple as it is. They already put quite a bit in the contextual menu and nowhere else (spell checker, for example). Booooo!
 
I'd say in twenty to twenty-five years Apple will add a second mouse button to their notebooks.
 
ElDiabloConCaca said:
Unfortunately, people certainly don't share one, universal opinion. Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks. :p

Apple has it right in a lot of different ways -- most importantly, the "80% rule".

If Apple designed for "power-users" and introduced people to the Mac experience with a multi-button experience, a lot of people would be turned off -- believe it or not, but us tech-junkie, power-user, contextual menu freaks are NOT the majority.

Casual home users are the majority -- the kind that like to click on an icon and see an application launch. The kind that click on an email to read it. The kind that double-click a PDF and see it in Preview. The kind that click menus instead of using keyboard shortcuts. Everything is in plain view with one click -- not the fastest way to move about by any means, but arguably the most intuitive and "easiest" way to do it. Hey, a weed-whacker is probably the fastest way to chop lettuce for a salad, but to do it elegantly would require skill that 80% of us don't possess.

In addition, some power-users are single-click kinds of people.

Apple has designed their operating as a true "point-and-click" OS... just point, and click. But they've also allowed the ability to right-click and to use keyboard shortcuts to access frequently used or advanced features instead of requiring it, much like Windows does. Tell me: how does one create a new folder on your Windows desktop without right-clicking or using a keyboard shortcut?

Pro users can navigate using command-click just fractions of a second slower than they can right-click. Is it really those fractions of a second that determine how productive and creative you are? Or, perhaps, is it really that the creativity and ease-of-use just flows more easily on a Mac, despite their operating system not being designed around the speed at which one can navigate?
Click to expand...


That's a nice story, but I was only disagreeing with the "Anyone who has worked in tech support will tell you ..." part, not necessarily the "right mouse buttons do NOT make people's life easier." part.
 
fryke said:
I'd say in twenty to twenty-five years Apple will add a second mouse button to their notebooks.
Click to expand...

Mmm yes... and in twenty to twenty-five years, we will reach the pinical, gracious excercise, of weed-whacking our salads...
 
Mikuro said:
I don't think it would be too hard for Apple to make a two-way setup on their laptops. By default, make it one button, like the MightyMouse, but have that second button there waiting to be turned on. I just hope they don't use that logic-defying click detection system they use with the MM. Give me an actual, physical CLICK any day. They could make two buttons that look like one. Put two actual triggers underneath it so that pushing one side clicks one and the other clicks the other. Problem solved.
Click to expand...
If you've got your hands on the computer so you can use the trackpad you've also got your fingers on or near the available modifier key.
 
simbalala said:
If you've got your hands on the computer so you can use the trackpad you've also got your fingers on or near the available modifier key.
Click to expand...
I don't think you could comfortably/conveniently hit control with your tracking hand as you click, so you'd still need two hands. It seems to me like this no different from on desktops, and people certainly appreciate a second desktop mouse button.

I'm not crying out for it myself — I've actually reprogrammed my beefy mouse's second button to do something else, since I don't find contextual menus nearly useful enough to justify it — but still, I think it would be a win-win situation if Apple does it right.

The single button is one of the biggest complaints among switchers. While they could certainly change their habits to be productive without the second mouse button, should they really need to? One of the great things about OS X is that it accomodates many different ways of working. You don't NEED to use it the way you use Windows to be efficient, but if you want to, then you can — that is, unless you have a laptop. Doh!
 
OK, I have a question.

How many people who want the mouse or trackpad to be the "Swiss Army Knife" of user input have a keyboard macro program of some type installed?

I first bought QuicKeys in the late 80's when I switched from PCs. I'd been using a program called SideKick on the PC which allowed for programming of keys. So it was the first or nearly the first thing I bought for the Mac and I've updated it every time an update became available.

I've got a couple hundred key definitions, sequences or menus right now and I add more or change them nearly every day.

I can usually do much more (in any program) with one keystroke (modifier + key) or one mouse click than I could ever do by fooling around with right clicks.
 
You can run Windows apps on Pcs, you can run Windows OS itself on the Mac. People are wanting two clicking mice for Macs now.
So...
IF YOU WANT ALL THE PC FUNCTIONS, WHY BUY A MAC?
If you are a REAL Mac user (and I know there are few), then
you dont need Windows XP on the Intel Macs, nor two clicking mice.
(Ok, without Office for Mac I would be useless myself, but thats only 4 pieces of software...)

- Ferdinand
 
I configured my Mighty Mouse to operate as a two-buttoned mouse, but it's a bit pointless because I very rarely right-click with it. I rarely need to access right-click functions.
 
It only makes sense that Apple include a right-click in their notebooks, for two reasons:

1. They're including Mighty Mouses with all of their desktops, so it would be stupid to have some computers with two buttons, some with one.
2. Practicality. The control key may be near the trackpad, but if you only have one hand available then you can't reach it without great difficulty.

Also, as a frequent user of Final Cut Pro and Photoshop, it's essential for me. I'm always right-clicking on layers and video tracks, which is why I threw my Apple Pro mouse in my drawer 4 years ago and haven't seen it since.
 
i think the more consumers have experienced a two button mouse in their computer experience than a single button as PCs still hold the majority in the market. i think apple made a right step in introducing the mighty mouse with right-click functionality because even if the average user needs a point-and-click sort of operating system and mentality to easily read their email or open ichat and talk with their family, i'm pretty sure they'll still head for the left-click and leave the right-click alone, leaving the 80% population with no difficulty, and providing the 20% population with an alternative to ctrl-clicking. i agree with Mikuro 100% that apple has already started building functionality only available in the contextual menu from right-clicking such as spell check, etc, so trying to stick with one-button functionality for applications' sake just doesn't make any sense to me.

my only beef with the mighty mouse, and a huge reason it's still wrapped up in its plastic and sitting in my imac accessories box unopened is the fact that it is still essentially a one-button mouse. again, if we're going back to this 80% majority deal..what do you think the average person will see when they look at the mighty mouse? (remember, not everyone knows apple hardware like we do). they're gonna see a one-button mouse with a scroll ball..and what makes it worse, is that when they plug it in to start using it..theyll be even more confused when they smack the top of the shell and sometimes they'll get their point-and-click, and sometimes theyll get their right-click. as i said before..apple made a step in the right direction but if theyre willing to concede to the two-button market, they need to split the shell into two different buttons (although this does provide room for dust to fall in the cracks, and makes cleaning a lot harder) but a two button mouse with one button just doesn't work for me (again, i stated that this is the reason why i'm not using it, i'm not disputing the fact that hundreds of people love their mighty mouse and think its a brilliant invention). i really dislike that i feel as if i'm always hitting one button, whether its on the left, the right, or in the middle...i need physical feedback to understand the different areas of click-age, and therefore, i will stick to my logitech mx1000 for the meantime

EDIT:
regarding the macbook pro and macbook line, as most consumers (our 80% population) are going to go for the cheaper, cost-effective computers such as the iMac, eMac, or iBook/MacBook, i might agree that you could keep the button under the trackpad on the iBook/MacBook one button but considering that our other 20% buy the pro-line (G5, PowerBook/MacBook Pro), and use applications such as Final Cut Pro, which handle much nicer with a right-click mouse, i'd say apple is due to install a right-click in their pro laptops..even if it means it will act like the Mighty Mouse in that it has two sensors but one click...(until they wake up and change it)
 
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