I say that a laptop needs an optical drive. You say that that the optical drive can be an aftermarket purchase or part of a second computer. If Apple were to introduce a third line of laptops, the new line should increase Apple's total sales. I don't believe that a laptop without an optical drive meets that test.fryke said:
Shouldn't apple make another laptop line?
- Thread starter jobsen_ski
- Start date
MP3 players weren't a big hit. And then came Apple. So some might say subnotebooks aren't a big hit... Well?
There _is_ a market for 'second' computers. People, nowadays, have computers. Why not have a second one to go. Optimised for mobile usage. The PowerBooks and iBooks are not very specialised for mobility. They're specialised in compromise in that they try (and manage!) to bring the best of all worlds together. They're feature complete, they have 'good' (but not good enough) battery life, they have good (but not good enough) performance, they have fast (but not fast enough) optical drives, they have big (but never big enough) harddrives. The 17" is a 'desktop replacement', but certainly it's not a dual G5 with an 8x SuperDrive. And not for a 12h day without an electrical outlet either.
A subnotebook could fill a gap very well. Many subnotebooks get that thought of mobility wrong, too. They're optimised in size, but not in 'mobility' as in mobile performance and battery life. Apple has the technology to create a 'second' computer to go with your PowerMac. Perfectly synched to that first computer etc.
Whether Apple will _do_ it is a different thought. But I think IF Apple should do a third line of notebooks, _that_ should be the one. Not an ultra-cheap line, because the 12" iBook already fits that (and Apple just _isn't_ about ultra-cheap).
There _is_ a market for 'second' computers. People, nowadays, have computers. Why not have a second one to go. Optimised for mobile usage. The PowerBooks and iBooks are not very specialised for mobility. They're specialised in compromise in that they try (and manage!) to bring the best of all worlds together. They're feature complete, they have 'good' (but not good enough) battery life, they have good (but not good enough) performance, they have fast (but not fast enough) optical drives, they have big (but never big enough) harddrives. The 17" is a 'desktop replacement', but certainly it's not a dual G5 with an 8x SuperDrive. And not for a 12h day without an electrical outlet either.
A subnotebook could fill a gap very well. Many subnotebooks get that thought of mobility wrong, too. They're optimised in size, but not in 'mobility' as in mobile performance and battery life. Apple has the technology to create a 'second' computer to go with your PowerMac. Perfectly synched to that first computer etc.
Whether Apple will _do_ it is a different thought. But I think IF Apple should do a third line of notebooks, _that_ should be the one. Not an ultra-cheap line, because the 12" iBook already fits that (and Apple just _isn't_ about ultra-cheap).
kendall
Registered
mp3 players were a big hit. diamond rio was the king of mp3 players until Apple derailed them. creative was also starting to get big into it as well.
its probably hard to fathom being from europe where subnotebooks are more widely accepted but in the US, we despise them. we hate them. we wont buy them. we spit on them. kind of like smartphones, but we're getting more accepting of those in far less time.
its never going to happen. Apple is US centric and they arent going to make a product the US already hates and has proven to have 0 use for.
its probably hard to fathom being from europe where subnotebooks are more widely accepted but in the US, we despise them. we hate them. we wont buy them. we spit on them. kind of like smartphones, but we're getting more accepting of those in far less time.
its never going to happen. Apple is US centric and they arent going to make a product the US already hates and has proven to have 0 use for.
texanpenguin
Registered Penguin
The iPod is only REALLY a big hit because you don't need to use a Mac to use an iPod. Subnotebooks are entirely different monsters - they're FOR using OS X.
Sadly people still regard Mac OS as a simplified "candy" operating system without programs they require. And in many ways, they're right.
The iPod was always going to go well. It provided the public with a device that they'd wanted, and they made it work exactly how it should, and look good, which noone else had done.
Notebooks, PDAs, it's all a horrible mess.
Think about it, with PDAs, what OS will it run? All the PDA software is either on Palm OS or Windows CE. If Apple produces another operating system for it, it'll be bought only by Apple owners. So the 3% of people that use Apples will now be divided again to around 0.2% of people who would actually need a PDA and don't already have one they're happy with. AND they'd need to convince people to completely rework their software for Newton OS X
. It's just not economically viable.
Instead, Apple needs to have a BARE BONES system, desktop or portable. Doesn't matter. All in one preferably, one FW port for an iPod, one or two USB ports for keyboard. Modem. 15" CRT screen. CD-ROM drive. 500 MHz G4 processor. 10GB HDD.
BARE BONES. As long as it looks nice, people will buy it, and the G4 will do OS X justice. I wouldn't buy one, but it's what people have begged for so much recently
Sadly people still regard Mac OS as a simplified "candy" operating system without programs they require. And in many ways, they're right.
The iPod was always going to go well. It provided the public with a device that they'd wanted, and they made it work exactly how it should, and look good, which noone else had done.
Notebooks, PDAs, it's all a horrible mess.
Think about it, with PDAs, what OS will it run? All the PDA software is either on Palm OS or Windows CE. If Apple produces another operating system for it, it'll be bought only by Apple owners. So the 3% of people that use Apples will now be divided again to around 0.2% of people who would actually need a PDA and don't already have one they're happy with. AND they'd need to convince people to completely rework their software for Newton OS X
. It's just not economically viable.Instead, Apple needs to have a BARE BONES system, desktop or portable. Doesn't matter. All in one preferably, one FW port for an iPod, one or two USB ports for keyboard. Modem. 15" CRT screen. CD-ROM drive. 500 MHz G4 processor. 10GB HDD.
BARE BONES. As long as it looks nice, people will buy it, and the G4 will do OS X justice. I wouldn't buy one, but it's what people have begged for so much recently
I simply do not subscribe to Magic Apple Theory. There are so many differences between the iPod and a laptop that they really cannot be discussed in the same conversation. In developing the iPod, Apple took the idea of an MP3 player and made it long-playing, cool, and easy to use. Apple did not remove functionality from the MP3 player. Neither was the iPod's success achieved by waving a magic wand. Instead, it was achieved by applying vision, talent, and dedication to satisfy a new market. With iTunes and the iTMS, Apple took a multi-pronged approach to growing that market.fryke said:
OTOH, removing the optical drive from the PowerBook leaves you with a PowerBook without an optical drive. You will be left with a simpler, lighter motherboard and chassis. It will have longer battery life. It will be slightly thinner. The LCD screen will be about the same. The keyboard will be about the same. The number of ports will have to be about the same. So the overall size of the computer will be about the same. So, it will look about the same. The user interface will be the same. The processor will likely be smaller, lighter, and slower. The laptop will be built to Apple quality standards which means that its price will be only slightly less. Buy that external optical drive and the total price is about the same, if not more. No amount of vision, talent, and dedication cultivate a market for a laptop with a missing part. Neither will any amount of magic. The only thing that can enhance a laptop which lacks removeable storage is a dock. Apple has been there, done that, and has a warehouse full of the T-shirts.
Randman
HA! HA! HA!
The only way I can see Apple doing is by adding it to the iBook line. Next year, you'll have a G5 PowerBook (likely only the 17 and 15 as the 12 might be too small to deal with the heat).
Apple drops the Powerbook 12 and bumps up the iBook specs to fill the current PowerBook specs (G4s, a 14 and a 12), then introduces a bare-bones 10 that has some kind of dock or something so it can also be used as an external of sorts.
But I would think it would have to have an optical drive and be able to stand on its own. Don't forget that the perception of Apple by the mainstream is that it's a brand name like BMW, quality machines but at a cost. And also, not very upgradeable.
However, the big question is what's next for the iPod line and those mini 60GB hard drives. Those could work in a 10 iBooklet, but if something along the lines of a PowerPod is released (60GB hard drive, color screen, built-in voice recording, ability to connect directly with a digital camera and to display photos as well as some kind of dock connector to then show those photos on a TV or monitor, well then Apple will not be coming out with a sub-notebook as the PowerPod would serve many (but not all) of what a 10 could do (external storage, media, perhaps even enhanced pda functions).
And to me, that seems a little more likely at this time.
Apple drops the Powerbook 12 and bumps up the iBook specs to fill the current PowerBook specs (G4s, a 14 and a 12), then introduces a bare-bones 10 that has some kind of dock or something so it can also be used as an external of sorts.
But I would think it would have to have an optical drive and be able to stand on its own. Don't forget that the perception of Apple by the mainstream is that it's a brand name like BMW, quality machines but at a cost. And also, not very upgradeable.
However, the big question is what's next for the iPod line and those mini 60GB hard drives. Those could work in a 10 iBooklet, but if something along the lines of a PowerPod is released (60GB hard drive, color screen, built-in voice recording, ability to connect directly with a digital camera and to display photos as well as some kind of dock connector to then show those photos on a TV or monitor, well then Apple will not be coming out with a sub-notebook as the PowerPod would serve many (but not all) of what a 10 could do (external storage, media, perhaps even enhanced pda functions).
And to me, that seems a little more likely at this time.
Yuck. Can you say cube? Smaller, less powerful, and most importantly... doesn't fit in the product line. Keep it at consumer laptop and professional laptop. Anything else will not find a market, and I don't think that Apple or anyone can create a market very successfully where none exists.
ElDiabloConCaca
U.S.D.A. Prime
That's very true -- the reason for the success of the iPod is the timing -- right in the peak of interest of the MP3 player business. A sub-notebook just doesn't fit in there. Sales of PalmPilot-style organizers is slowing. They're just not good at what they do -- hell, some of the new Palm models sport a multi-hundred MHz processor -- for WHAT?! Keeping my address book? Playing a measely 10 MP3s? Writing emails on a minscule keyboard?
The handheld market is trying to mimic the desktop market, and failing. Instead, they should be extending the desktop market.
Much the same for a sub-notebook. Requiring another computer to install software is a steep requirement. However, it isn't unheard of -- the iPod requires a computer to sync and purchase music. With iPods ranging in price from $250 to $400, you're gonna have to strip a lot of features out of that palm-size notebook to make it fit somewhere between an iPod and an iBook, and I just don't see the space in between those two for a completely new device.
Good idea, but would be marketed toward a very small segment of the population, and on top of that, only the portion of that segment that owns at least one Mac with FireWire. A definite "cube," for sure -- very cool, very futuristic, make people go "ooh" and "aah," but really isn't targeted toward any profitable segment of the population.
The handheld market is trying to mimic the desktop market, and failing. Instead, they should be extending the desktop market.
Much the same for a sub-notebook. Requiring another computer to install software is a steep requirement. However, it isn't unheard of -- the iPod requires a computer to sync and purchase music. With iPods ranging in price from $250 to $400, you're gonna have to strip a lot of features out of that palm-size notebook to make it fit somewhere between an iPod and an iBook, and I just don't see the space in between those two for a completely new device.
Good idea, but would be marketed toward a very small segment of the population, and on top of that, only the portion of that segment that owns at least one Mac with FireWire. A definite "cube," for sure -- very cool, very futuristic, make people go "ooh" and "aah," but really isn't targeted toward any profitable segment of the population.
malexgreen
Contributor and PB User
jobsen_ski said:
I think a tablet mac with superior handwriting recognition integrated into iLife, Appleworks, and Keynote, the iApps, along with a note taking program superior to ms onenote is missing from their notebook product list.
So let's reduce it to the facts... Apple has an entry-level notebook line, the iBook. Apple has a 'mobile professional' line, the PowerBook. Is Apple missing something? Doesn't seem like, if we read the posts in this thread.
For me, PERSONALLY, Apple is missing one thing: A truly mobile Mac. One you can put in basically _any_ bag (even a lady's handbag). Even the 12" PowerBook is too large for that. And: Its battery power is subpar.
I find it amusing how people on here say 'a subnotebook doesn't work in US market'. 'course not. If you compare it to the subnotes that are around. If you had been asked whether the iPod would work, you'd have said: I don't want to carry around a digital music player that holds twelve songs at a meager bitrate...
I don't expect Apple to create a subnotebook that directly competes with what's already around. I expect Apple to fill a gap that's actually _there_ but missed by the biggies...
For me, PERSONALLY, Apple is missing one thing: A truly mobile Mac. One you can put in basically _any_ bag (even a lady's handbag). Even the 12" PowerBook is too large for that. And: Its battery power is subpar.
I find it amusing how people on here say 'a subnotebook doesn't work in US market'. 'course not. If you compare it to the subnotes that are around. If you had been asked whether the iPod would work, you'd have said: I don't want to carry around a digital music player that holds twelve songs at a meager bitrate...
I don't expect Apple to create a subnotebook that directly competes with what's already around. I expect Apple to fill a gap that's actually _there_ but missed by the biggies...
qwikstreet
OS X Friendly
kendall said:APPLE, are you LISTENING?! i want my Apple mp3/PDA/mobile phone hybrid NOW.
you admitted to working on a PDA so you KNOW you wanna DO IT!
Yes please rejuvenate a hybrid Newton MessagePad. I loved my 1100. It was useful as a PDA and a weapon. The thing was a brick, and the pointy stylus pointed out the side as a nice bayonet.
fryke said:
That's a good point Fryke. When the iPod came out I thought it was a horrible idea because it was so expensive for what it was (an MP3 player). Well I've been proven horribly wrong on that. *IF* Apple can make a subnotebook that really and truly fits a need I would be for it, not as a new computer line but as a digital device that fits in with the whole "digital hub" design. But to me something like that would be more like a Super Blackberry (but obviously with less emphasis on the phone aspect) than a smaller iBook or Powerbook. And I think when we start talking about things that fit in purses and are extensions of our home computers we're talking dangerously close to a PDA, which Jobs and Apple have an aversion to apparently. Count me amongst those that would jump all over a new Newton, but it just ain't happening.
kendall
Registered
fryke said:
we've been privy to japans finest subnotebooks from the likes of sony and sharp. we in the US dont likem. we like PDAs. call us crazy. maybe what you should be asking for is a Apple PDA if you want it to fit in a ladies purse.
if so, im all for it. as long as it has a phone and mp3 player attached.
Then again, the 'iPhone' idea is about as old as the claim that Apple will bring out a new Newton at some future point in time... And we're talking 'third notebook line' in this thread...
Ah, forget about it, let's stay off-topic, then. ;-) ... I personally think we'll see two kinds of PDA/smartphones in the longer-time future (3-5 years). One type is the palmOne tréo, for people who prefer using such a device with two hands and handwriting input. The other type: The Nokia Communicator 9500, which can really be your Personal Digital Assistant, as it has everything one could need on the road, with a keyboard that's just big enough to be really useful.
Ah, forget about it, let's stay off-topic, then. ;-) ... I personally think we'll see two kinds of PDA/smartphones in the longer-time future (3-5 years). One type is the palmOne tréo, for people who prefer using such a device with two hands and handwriting input. The other type: The Nokia Communicator 9500, which can really be your Personal Digital Assistant, as it has everything one could need on the road, with a keyboard that's just big enough to be really useful.
jobsen_ski
Daily Player
I have to admit (although all of my previous phones have been nokias I doubt my next will be) they only just brough out their first clam shell in the UK and flip phones are DEFINATLY in here (all helped along by David Beckham - in his vodafone /sharp ardvert ofcourse - man even the 3G phones are flip now - ye theyre still masive but at least they fold in half ! lol) my next phone wont be! unless nokia brings out a smaller and more appealing hanset / flipphone! - even Im off topic now and i started it?
hy is every one convinced it would be a "sub - note book" why couldnt it be better than the powerbook? - I know thyre realy - realy good right now but what about a more portable version withh ALL the features and a few more mobile "like" features too - of course it would be *more* expensive. And theres alway the "e-book" option like a scalled down ibook - takes less ram etc etc, maybe doesnt have an optical drive! but there not realy needed alot in schools - they can print share files etc over networks wired or unwired. and there coudld a dock - maybe one per class or per skl so If a optical drive were realy needed it could be placed in thr "dock" of course apple would start by only selling thesed to schools and thrn suddenly that every1 else wants one too! just an idea! and something to get us back on topic! LOL
P.S. Sorry for the bad tying im writing this in ved it 1.30 am here and I did nt have a very good sleep last night!
lol
lol) my next phone wont be! unless nokia brings out a smaller and more appealing hanset / flipphone! - even Im off topic now and i started it? hy is every one convinced it would be a "sub - note book" why couldnt it be better than the powerbook? - I know thyre realy - realy good right now but what about a more portable version withh ALL the features and a few more mobile "like" features too - of course it would be *more* expensive. And theres alway the "e-book" option like a scalled down ibook - takes less ram etc etc, maybe doesnt have an optical drive! but there not realy needed alot in schools - they can print share files etc over networks wired or unwired. and there coudld a dock - maybe one per class or per skl so If a optical drive were realy needed it could be placed in thr "dock" of course apple would start by only selling thesed to schools and thrn suddenly that every1 else wants one too! just an idea! and something to get us back on topic! LOL
P.S. Sorry for the bad tying im writing this in ved it 1.30 am here and I did nt have a very good sleep last night!
lol