slow display performance on Classic under OS X

S

Shambo

Registered
When running Classic apps under 10.2, I'm noticing very slow display performance for those Classic apps. For example, I'm running Safari, hummming along fine, it displays each page very quickly, then I bring up Outlook running under Classic, and it takes ages for the app to redraw. I haven't tested this with other Classic apps.

Is this an Outlook issue, or do all Classic apps redraw very slowly?

thanks,
S
 
You could speed it up by adding more memory on your machine.

Remember that Classic is just an emulator. Most of classic's control panels and extensions are moot - that is OS X takes over. So launching classic is like launching a large app.
Is there a reason that you browse with Safari yet get your email in classic?
 
Hi Cheryl,

Thanks for your response.

Actually, I've got 1gig RAM, and it's a dual 1Ghz G4, so it should be able to handle to display load. I think I need to do some more poking around, but my gut is telling me it has something to do with how Classic apps draw to the screen and how OS X draws to the screen. Since there are OS X apps visible in the background (including the Finder), the Mac has to draw using 2 different methods. Again, I'm going to poke around a bit more, but I will definitely post my results in this thread.

BTW, it's my office machine, they force us to use Outlook for corporate email, but we can use whatever we want for browsing.

thanks again,
Shambo
 
There is an Outlook version for OS X. :)

Can you boot in OS 9? If so, then do so and check the memory control panel. Virtual memory should be on and left at default. Yes, even with that amount of RAM. It makes a difference in X and classic mode.
You have to restart in OS 9 for changes to take affect. Then restart back to X.

While in 9, check the memory allocation for Outlook. Boost the preferred memory allocation. That just might help.
 
Cheryl, where have you seen an OS X Outlook client? Also, 1 GB of RAM or more cannot use virtual memory in OS 9, it's just not allowed. But certainly more memory allocated to most OS 9 apps is a good thing. There are common video artifacts between many Classic apps and OS X. There is a list (quite a large list, really) that I have used to disable unneeded control panels and extensions, which makes a noticeable increase in the performance of Classic (I've lost track of my own copy, but it's around on the troubleshooting sites, maybe even this one.) Sometimes a simple restart of Classic can have a good effect, you can do that directly from the Classic pref pane.

I get overly sensitive about semantics I guess. The dual gig g4 will probably still boot into OS 9, so the software that allows OS X to run older Mac software, on Mac hardware (Mac on a Mac, get it?), does not quite fit my definition of an 'emulator', and Apple does not use that terminology, either. They call it the Classic 'environment'. I guess as we head toward less and less hardware capability for OS 9, then I'll adjust my thinking toward 'emulator', but not yet! :)
 
When you use Virtual PC, you're working in the "Windows environment." When you boot into single-user mode, you're working in the "UNIX environment." The term environment just describes the current OS you're working with if it's not your native OS.

Your Dual Gig probably will not boot into OS 9. You have to run OS X, depending on how old your machine is.

If you have Microsoft Office, you already have an OS X version of Outlook: Entourage. See if your boss will let you use that, since it's made by Microsoft and practically the same program as Outlook.
 
Arden, you missed my point totally. Virt PC provides emulation of (or imitates) all the hardware that Windows uses, through a software interpretation of the Intel-style (PC) architecture. Classic, on the other hand, works in combination with the OS X software to use the same hardware that any Mac uses. That's how it achieves performance that sometimes is better even than booting to OS 9, through the more efficient environment that OS X provides for Classic.
Until recently, Classic is a native OS (Virt PC is not) when operating on Mac hardware.
 
Uh, at the risk of getting severly flamed, I was able to rectify the slow redraw issue by rebooting the machine. All classic apps were redrawing slowly, not just Outlook, and restarting classic and rebulding the desktop did not solve the issue. I had found a few articles hinting at a possible memory leak, and putting that together with the fact that I rarely reboot this machine, I figured it was worth a shot. It was. Now all classic apps redraw very quickly.

And this dual 1GHz G4 does boot into 9.

Thanks for all the input
-S
 
I apologize for the side conversation.
I occasionally run a utility (I like Maintain1, currently) that will run various scripts. I choose to run the weekly script, which is a cron periodic task. This goes a long ways to reset memory usage, and, for me, keeps perceived performance as high as possible for my system. Some may say it's not really accomplishing much, but works for me! Makes TOP look better, too! Sort of a 'start the day with a quick tune up'! instead of re-starting like I used to :) (maybe a psychological boost only, but that's me!)
 
Delta: Yes, I know that 9 and X both use the same hardware, and therefore Classic is not true emulation as is VPC. However, they both run an environment, since you're working in the Classic environment when you're using a Classic app and you're working in the Windows environment when you're working in VPC.

Actually, for the newer computers that don't boot OS 9, they're closer to emulating it in the Classic environment than on older machines. Yes, they still have virtually identical hardware, but the firmware disallows booting into 9, so in a way you're now emulating 9. But this frivolous argument isn't helping anything.

Shambo: Did you ask your boss about using Entourage?
 
Entourage is a whole 'nother set of issues. We are working on it, however.

As far as Classic apps redrawing very slowly, I notice in Process Viewer that the TruBlueEnvironment and Window Manager processes hog up to 95% of the processor when I click into a Classic app. That seems unreasonable to me. I've found no mention of this issue on apple.com.

Anyone else see this performance hit with Classic apps?

graicas,
S
 
Did some more testing on this issue.

Keeping ProcessViewer open in the background, I toggle back and forth between OS X and Classic apps. If the computer had been freshly booted, I notice that TruBlueEnvironment will take up 70% of the processor when I toggle into a Classic app. WindowManager stays down around 10%.

After a few hours of use, when I toggle into a Classic app, both TruBlue and WindowManager try to take as much of the processor as they can, both will go back and forth, using over 90% of the processor.

Restarting Classic does not fix this. Either rebooting or Force Quitting WindowManager does fix the slowdown.

BTW, I notice that TruBlue takes up over 1 gig of system memory (VSIZE). Is this appropriate? It uses this amount whether the computer has been freshly booted, or if it's been in use for a few hours.

Any clues in here?

thanks,
S
 
Yes, starting Classic adds over 1 GB to the VM number, that's quite normal. vsize on my system for TrueBlueEnv is 1.04 GB
If no Classic apps are being used, the %cpu for TrueBlueEnv should drop to less than 5%.
Window Manager may jump all over. Thats the process controlling all windows size and position. Move any window and watch it jump.
Quit any Classic apps that you might have open and watch the %cpu for TrueBlueEnv. It should drop to some level around 5% normally (might take a couple of minutes)
You may see some advantage to running a utility that will remove the system's cache files, such as OnyX or MacJanitor (I like OnyX) If you haven't tried that, you could be amazed by a much smoother system
 
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