Stupid Move on Apple's part

Sorry to cause any mixups.. I did not mean that iTunes was on the list of Apps to start charging a fee to use. I meant that if Apple continues down this path all iApps would eventually become shareware. I use the term shareware because they offer it as a trial then ask for money, except they make no mention about a trial period (oh that's right, I thought it was gonna be free). I wouldn't consider myself a brat nor anyone else here, but I would consider myself a fool if I didn't complain when someone gives me something for free and then comes knocking on my door and say, "Sorry, I changed my mind. Could you pay for that free gift now?" I'll be the first one to slam the door in Apple's face. I was perfectly happy with other apps before Apple came out with their 'Free' iApps. Now with the exception of a few apps out there innovation for 'iApp Competing Products' are a rare breed (I miss my SoundJam). And again with the bait 'n switch... get everyone hooked on the free apps, forget about the other commercial products... join us... we'll take care of your needs. Then once you are all cozy and warm with the app, they pull a Microsoft. I'd swear that sometimes Steve Jobs must be related to Bill Gates.

Inline_guy.. I agree that it makes sense for business, but for customer loyalty it is not a good move for the reason I stated above. If Apple does go through with this (if the rumor is true). We will get over it. Some will buy, other will throw a finger in the air. For Apple this is what they need to do to make money.
 
Okay, did I miss the boat here? Since when were some of these apps free? They may have been bundled with systems or software, but iMovie is not a free app ($49.00), AppleWorks is not free ($79.00), and iDVD is not free ($19.95). AppleWorks was free with a bundle of software with some iMacs, but if you got AppleWorks 5 you didn't get AppleWorks 6 from Apple for free. People who got AppleWork 6 have been lucky that all upgrades so far have been to 6.x.x versions, but if 7 comes out, it isn't going to be free.

bubbajim, Apple isn't going to make you pay for what you already have. You would only pay for new versions. Maybe when you buy some new hardware you could get them for free again, or maybe Apple would include them in Mac OS X v10.5 or something like that, but what the article is talking about is an iPhoto, iMovie, iDVD bundle for less than what iMovie and iDVD cost from Apple now. No "bait 'n switch" here, you own what you have. If you want something better/newer pay up for it (or wait for another bundle to come along). The only place I know of that offers "upgrades for life" is Stone Software.

So, what is everyone's problem again?
 
While i can see both sides of the argument, I have not seen apple IMPROVE .mac the way they promised, it is still pretty mch the way it was when it was free, and it has been a pay site for many many month's. As for charging for the iApps. Last i checked they alreadt charged me for them when i bought jaguar, and they will continue to charge me when i upgrade to the next os. So to me this feels like double dipping and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and will make it eaier for me to keep quiet the next time a friend talks about buying a gateway. A couple years ago i would gave been all over them , talking up the mac OS benefits. Now with Apple taking my money every chance they get , I say let Apple spend the time getting new customers.
 
if they do this the right way, i think not too many feathers will be ruffled.

if the more casual iApps like iTunes, iCal, iChat, iSync stay free, and programs like iPhoto, iMovie and iDVD come at a price, i think that would be acceptable. hopefully there would be some sort of option to buy just the programs you want, since iPhoto is kind of neat, but i don't have a DV cam as of yet, so i have no use for iMovie or iDVD.

but the people saying they'll sell their macs if apple does this, you gotta be kidding me. granted, i can see the 'bait and switch' argument... but if you don't feel as if the programs are worth your money, or feel as if they aren't worth paying to upgrade, do one of two things:

1) dont upgrade (yea, thats right... you dont HAVE to upgrade last time i checked.)

2) find a suitable replacement. don't like iTunes? there's a couple of great mp3 player programs out there, some free, some you have to pay for. there's fire, adium, proteus for you iChat people. if you don't like iCal or iSync, use the palm desktop software that comes with your palm. i haven't looked around, but i'm sure there's a suitable replacement for every iApp they could possibly charge you for.

i guess we'll all know next week, eh?
 
Ding ding ding...

Mac-blog. Wow. As a new switcher, I did not even know you had to pay for the other versions!. That is funny. Now this thread seems like a silly post. You Mac-Blog did not miss the boat. We did!

Good to know. can't wait until MWSF!

Matthew
 
I hate that. Waiting MWSF just to know if we're going to pay more or not... Nothing exciting, nothing revolutionary, nothing Apple in this !

If the charging of the iApps is the biggest surprise of MWSF then Apple's dead. I really hope something will make me change my mind next week. I also really hope this rumor is wrong. Otherwise, Apple doesn't say "Hello" to its customers. It says 'Fcuk off and get the credit card ready you dumbhead'.

Wow ! I'm so angry about this... yesterday a PC friend just came home and tunrt to me : 'François, I'm just a dummy. All I need a computer for is listening music, browsing the Web, typing text and making Excel files. And I bought a PC, what a dummy I am, Macs are nice, simple, and they come with all the good applications (he was looking at iTunes, TextEdit, AppleWorks) already installed !'

I hope I'll never have to tell him I had to crack any of those.
 
Originally posted by Giaguara
I could do a calendar app myself if i needed one.
Click to expand...

I love this one. I am a software engineer. I've written NEXTSTEP (the predecessor to Cocoa and OS X) applications. I couldn't do close to what Apple has done in less than a week. Full-time. At my current bill rate...If Apple charged $50 for iCal ONLY...I'd be in the hole after the first hour of work!

Sheesh. How much is your time worth?

If the iApp isn't useful to you...fine don't use...don't pay for it...don't complain about it.
 
Originally posted by toast
If the charging of the iApps is the biggest surprise of MWSF then Apple's dead.
Click to expand...

Nope. You are wrong. Sorry.


Macs are nice, simple, and they come with all the good applications (he was looking at iTunes, TextEdit, AppleWorks) already installed !'

I hope I'll never have to tell him I had to crack any of those.
Click to expand...

And at this point we have no idea (and probably very little chance) that this will change.

At most, I expect Apple to CONTINUE their practice of charging for the upgrades of iMovie, iDVD (and new to this...iPhoto). Probably as a bundle.
 
Toast. What is your major malfunction? Apple ALREADY charges for iMovie, and iDVD and even AppleWorks for that matter! They are not now..... or have been in the past a FREE upgrade! Understand! Look....

Scroll down and look for AppleWorks, iDVD, and iMovie!
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APP...rPageLeftSoftwarePromo.1.1.0.3.1.0.17.3.1.1.0

What was that. They already cost money! What? Shocking! Deal with it! Software cost money...... And if your friend buys a mac he STILL gets them on the machine. Man. It is not that hard to understand. Like Mac-Blog already said; this is NOT NEW NEWS!

They are now and will remain already installed on new machines. The only versions of these apps that are free upgrades are the dot dot upgrades. Like 7.x.x You get the x's for free. As soon as it goes 8 you will have to pay. Nothing new. You get it. Threatening to steal only does one thing, and that is to show your poor character (and I am not referring to monetarily poor!)

Matthew
 
Originally posted by RacerX
Jobs has tried x86 twice and both time it was unsuccessful, why would he be inclined to try a third time?
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Maybe it's not the idea but the igit trying to implement it. In this case, Steve Jobs.

(No need to reply, I'm just being a wise ass).
 
apple is just adding iphoto to its list of iapps to charge for. no big deal, i guess. i hope other iapps (the less powerful ones) don't follow suit.
what some people are missing (inline for one) is that yes, they cost money, but those of us who paid $1800 for a mac and another $800 for an lcd think we've paid our dues. we paid that money to receive iphoto, itunes, ical, etc. under the notion that they would be supported as long as we had the machine. now apple is charging money for the upgrade to iphoto, which is kind of buggy as it is.
think of it as buying a $8 cheeseburger every day, getting 'free' french fries. now alluvasudden you're just stuck with an $8 cheeseburger. bummer.
 
When I bought my PowerBook these apps were given for free. They never said shareware. While on the other hand when I bought my Windows XP desktop I got copies of Norton AntiVirus and a demo copy of Photoshop that both said they were 30 day trials right in the open. Here's the way I view this.

I bought my HDTV bigscreen about 6 months ago from Pioneer. If Pioneer came to my door years later and told me they need another 200.00 dollars to pay a license fee so they could continue to make a profit I would kick them in the as* and run them over with my car. I allready bought my HDTV so if they can't make a profit now then put that cost into HDTVs being sold now. That's the way it goes. Why should Pioneer expect me to pay them more money so they could make a profit. It's not my fault they didn't charge an extra 100 dollars for my TV just to make sure. That's there problem not mine.

Why should apple expect consumers who have allready bought their computers for lots of money to have to shell out more money because they can't make a profit. Big smart Stevie should of thought of that a year ago. Isn't that what he's being paid millions of dollars. Oh and if someone says he doesn't have a salery of millions of dollars just let me tell you that bonuses are just another way around that. The smart thing to do is too put the cost into new computers. There allready priced high as it is so to add another 50 or 100 dollars wouldn't kill me. I may be a multi-millionaire but I still remember where I came from. I try to do everything that's fair with my company while still trying to make enough of a profit to be able to afford R&D for new products. I just gave my top 150 employees brand new flat panel iMacs for Christmas and I am highly thinking about getting my next 150 top employees an HDTV instead of a computer. I don't like how Microsoft does business. They are the worst when it comes to hiring actual employees and providing them benefits. Almost everyone is either temp or contract with no benefits. For the last 3 years I have allways gotten my top 150 employees Mac computers. I call a meeting every year on Jan 1st at 9 am and tell everyone what will be next years Christmas gift. Since all of my employees have or can get medical and other benefits from day 1 of hire for 80 dollars per month and then after 90 days they can get benefits for 10 dollars per week. I also contribute 15% to their profit sharing. I believe to take care of your existing and future customers you have to first take care of your employees. All of my employees know that they could be one of the 150 people who could win a Mac. These top 150 people are based on how many sick days they take, how well they perform their jobs and last but not least how much fun they have doing their job.

Apples biggest mistake is that they are not taking care of their existing customers. If they stop taking care of their existing customers than in almost 95% of cases they will not take care of their future customers. This is the direction that apple is moving towards that I don't like. I've always given away Macs because Apple was a great example of what my company stood for. The customer is always the first priority in every decision this company makes. The price may have been high to buy these Macs but Apple made up for it like no other computer company has before. By doing everything they can for the customers and not always for profits. I only have 200 employees total and the remaining 50 employees didn't go home to chirstmas empty handed. They wen't home with 500 dollar gift cards for Best Buy. I take care of my employees the best I can. They have great incentives to do the best they can. When you have employees who are taken care of with benefits and pay (I don't over pay but my starting pay rate is way above the minimum for the job) with little to worry about and have 2 weeks vaction in the first year and get paid for 40 hours for a 36 hour work week and can choose to take a 1:15 minute lunch break or work all the way through and go home 2 hours early (45 minutes less work this way) and still get paid for 40 hours. When you have employees who will go extra lengths to be one of the top 150 workers to bring home a Mac computer and for the other workers who just had a bad year can still get a 500 dollar gift card for BestBuy. What do you get with all of this. Very hard workers who all are happy with thier jobs and have on of the lowest turn over rates in your industry. Your workers spend more time making these products better and the work harder to get it done the right way. Some of my products have gone through years of R&D and once it wen't into being built you would be amazed how many workers came into my office and said why they didn't like something or how it could be better which you could of never fould out from R&D. All of these workers have put their effort and time in making products better. For every 100 units we sell our next 100 units have new features. If one of my first 100 units customers call and say they wan't this feature if they send back the unit they have we'll send out the most current unit and we sell these older units for less with the same warranty. Between one model we have over 10 different revisions to make this model better and any customer who wan't the lastest revision can have it. The customer can only get one revision for free so if they wan't to wait until the last revision that's fine and if they don't and they buy a revision that addresses one of their problems and then the last revision address something else they wan't they can return their current unit and get the last revision for 75% off of the current units price. You see how this works. We are always in the best interest of the customer. When they send back these units we sell them for cheaper and if we have to cover the next customer for an extra 6 months than the original products warranty well than so what. If my company can't afford to cover these products for an extra 6 months than what the hel* am I doing even selling these products. I look at it this way. When I go to eat out I always give around 25% tip. Here's the way I see it. If my bill is 100 dollars and the standard tip is 15.00 if I can't afford an extra 10.00 dollars than I can't afford to go out at all.

Sorry I went on and on but this is something that bothers me over and over and always will until I pass away.
 
I agree with what you're saying MLapointe27, but I never thought that Apple giving me copies of AppleWorks, iMovies and iDVD with my computer would mean they'd keep giving me free copies once they brought out newer versions. iMovie and iDVD have always clearly been a commercial product that is a bonus gift for buying a new Mac.

To use your analogy. It would be like if I bought a HDTV big screen about 6 months ago from Pioneer and they bring out a new model. Now I don't expect them to come around to my house and say here's our new model for free!! I mean I wouldn't say no if they did though.

Having to pay for iPhoto on the other hand is a bit different, and a surprise - since it has till now been freeware. Oh well ;-(
 
MLapointe27.. Wrong.

This is what you said.
"When I bought my PowerBook these apps were given for free. They never said shareware. While on the other hand when I bought my Windows XP desktop I got copies of Norton AntiVirus and a demo copy of Photoshop that both said they were 30 day trials right in the open. Here's the way I view this."

Do you think before you write.

Here is the situation. Apple has given you iMovie Ver 2.0 on your computer with purchase. Not shareware buddy. They have given you iDVD Ver 2.0 with your computer. Not shareware. They are not now asking you to pay for your 2.0 versions. They are saying if you want Ver 3.0 (NEW SOFTWARE) then you must pay for it. Like any normal human. Like any normal business.

This is what it would be like. If you got a Windows XP computer with Photoshop 5 installed. You are happy. Wow it seems free. This is great! Then Photoshop 6 comes out. And what is this. .... They are making me pay for it! That isn't fare. The gave me the other one with the computer. They must not value their customers!!! No you FOOLS. DUH! That is what they do. By buying a computer you have no right to NEW FREE SOFTWARE... No matter how much you paid for you computer.

I can't believe how thick you people are. This is not bate and switch. They gave you programs with your computer. Those are yours. No trial. No anything. Enjoy. However if you want new software you will pay for it. Or not have it!

I got a World Book Ver 6.0.2 CD with my mac. If World book makes a Ver 7.0 are they going to just put it on their site for me! Nope. They say, come buy it! Duh.. This is how the world works.

Some of you guys act like Apple owes you something for using their computers. Wrong. You are not doing them a favor. You bought a product. If it is now not what you want, because you made an asinine assumption that all Apple software is free, then you are a fool.

Matthew
 
So I'm curious:

If they're going to charge for operating system upgrades, why would anyone pay for upgrades to the iApps? Ostensibly the upgrades to the OS would come with the new & improved iApps, so just keep a tight grip on your wallet (or purse, I guess) and but 10.3, 10.4, ad infinitum.

A standard/pro pricing scheme would seem to be much more beneficial.
 
Originally posted by Inline_guy
Toast. What is your major malfunction? Apple ALREADY charges for iMovie, and iDVD and even AppleWorks for that matter! They are not now..... or have been in the past a FREE upgrade! Understand! Look....

Scroll down and look for AppleWorks, iDVD, and iMovie!
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APP...rPageLeftSoftwarePromo.1.1.0.3.1.0.17.3.1.1.0


Matthew
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Fully agree... nothing is for free.

The only point is how much does it cost ? And will I pay this amount for it ?

I'd like to have the choice of limited upgrade (one or two iApp) or full upgrade (OS + all iApp) both at reasonnable price.
 
if they start charging for iApps will the open them up more?

For example, would you be able to use your external DVD-R with iDVD?
 
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