Support for Classic on intel Macs

disk_first_aid

Registered
Hello Everybody :)

Not long ago, from a Web page not far away...........

comes this little snippet of news for users of MacOS "Classic" systems and it appears it's not good.
I have done some digging around on Apple and Intel and it all look's "Fair Dinkum" to me. The following is an excerpt from the Web page - classic_not_supported ".....but, page 67 of Apple's Universal Binary Program Guides pdf. explicitly states that "Classic" applications are _not_ supported in the Rosetta emulator, that runs PowerPC applications on Intel-based Macs".
BTW, there is a link to this pdf listed on the same page, but, I found when I tried to access it, it showed up as a _blank page_! Hmmmm........but that could be me (4 attempts!??).
So there it is in a 'nutshell' as so to speak. The bottom line is this.... if you are a regular Classic user, Apple have no plans for support! Read more on this here at:-
http://daringfireball.net/2005/06/classic_not_supported

"Rosetta" - the x86 Intel 'translator'
"Apple have found a way to emulate PowerPC compiled software at acceptable speed on Intel processors". Rosetta is designed to translate currently shipping Applications on a PowerPC with a G3 processor and that are built for MacOS X. For a very good read on that and Rosetta, go here:-
http://daringfireball.net/2005/06/bombs_away

Finally and please remember, this is a rumor...... Does Steve Jobs (Apple's CEO) have ambitions of owning Sony Pictures Corporation? Find out about that and more here at:-
http://daringfireball.net/2005/06/rule_the_galaxy

Hopefully, all of this transition business will finally help answer that perennial question "What sort of Computer Should I Buy?" or "Do I buy a Mac or PC?" Well the answer is simple really, "It will be one using an Intel Processor! - Ah !... but - which one..........?"

I hope you enjoy the read,
Cheers
_____________________________________________________

"It takes 2 Days to post an impromptu thread!"
 

Mikuro

Crotchety UI Nitpicker
Steve Jobs said they haven't ruled out Classic support, but that it's not a priority. Time will tell, I guess.

If Apple doesn't add Classic support, I'm sure some third party will take it upon themselves to release an emulator. Heck, there are already a few Old-Mac emulators for OS X! Maybe they could even "piggy-back" on Rosetta for the real gruntwork.

At this point, I couldn't really blame Apple if they ditched Classic. I'd like to see it, but...the people who rely on Classic are in a very small minority, so it's hard to justify the effort it would take. Of course, that's what most developers say about the Mac in general....
 

nixgeek

Mac of the SubGenius! :-)
Maybe Basilisk II would be ported over. Or maybe we'll finally see that x86 Classic "Star Trek" project of Mac OS. It would definitely be interesting.. :)
 

ElDiabloConCaca

U.S.D.A. Prime
I always thought it was a good idea to use the operating system most closely associated with the applications you need to use, meaning that if you're using a Classic application (one that hasn't been updated for OS X or is discontinued), then STOP UPDATING YOUR OPERATING SYSTEM!

The "farther apart" your OS and your applications get, the more trouble/incompatibility you will get into. If anyone is still using a Classic application by the time we get to the Intel version of OS X, then I would tend to think they're not using their computer intuitively... either splurge for an OS X-native update to the application, or quit making the void between your Classic application and the latest-and-greatest release of OS X so damn big.

If you absolutely need a Classic application, use OS 9, period. Don't keep updating OS X to the latest and greatest while letting your applications languish. You're only going to have headaches in a scenario like that.

I, personally, am ready to see Classic hit the road when Intel Mac OS X comes about.

Steve Jobs has no intent of being CEO of Sony or Disney, nor does he want any of his companies merged with either of those two companies. The only person in the world that wants Jobs as CEO of Sony/Disney is Cringely (the author of that article) who has been known to cross the boundary of "wild, unfounded speculation" on many occasions.

Good read, though!
 

Mikuro

Crotchety UI Nitpicker
The problem there is that most people who need Classic need OS X, too. I don't know of anyone who uses Classic for more than one or two apps. For everything else, they need X. OS 9 is hard to use exclusively at this point. Even the web browsers are largely obsolete.

I actually used a 68k-native graphics program well into my days of OS X. I still would, too, if it wasn't just such a hassle to use Classic. There's STILL no good substitute for Color It on OS X. So I use Photoshop now (10x the price, almost as functional! Yay!), and when I need to do something Photoshop isn't good at, I'm pretty much screwed. I can either use pitiful OS X apps, or fire up Classic.

I try to avoid it, but sometimes I just have to use Classic. But I can't very well give up X, either. I held out on moving to X for as long as I could, but you can't run from progress forever.
 

fryke

Moderator
Staff member
Mod
OS 9 is dead. For over two years at least. If you _rely_ on applications that still need Classic or even a computer booted into OS 9, get the developer to FINALLY release updates for the software. They've still got plenty of time - and they've obviously spent the past five years or so sleeping...
If they don't move - and so it seems after all these years, doesn't it... - you may _have_ to look into alternatives. Those dead horses shouldn't be bet on in my opinion.

Btw.: There's NO NEED TO SHOUT IN THREAD TITLES! OR POSTS! (Going to edit the thread's title...)
 

RacerX

Old Rhapsody User
ElDiabloConCaca said:
Steve Jobs has no intent of being CEO of Sony or Disney, nor does he want any of his companies merged with either of those two companies. The only person in the world that wants Jobs as CEO of Sony/Disney is Cringely (the author of that article) who has been known to cross the boundary of "wild, unfounded speculation" on many occasions.
Well, I've been known to disagree with Bob on many things in the past, and this one can definitely be added to that list.

:rolleyes:

Of course I would be remiss if I didn't mention the fact that he was right and I was wrong on Apple continuing the builds of Mac OS X for Intel. I guess to date, according to Bob, I'm the only person who as ever apologized for being wrong in such a discussion with him.
 

serpicolugnut

OS X Supreme Being
Cringley is a smart guy. He knows Jobs personally. However, I think on many of his recent theories he has been out in left field.

Jobs wants to be CEO of Sony/Disney in one regard - he wants Apple to be the new Sony for the 21st century, and he already views Pixar as the new Disney. Apple has already shown up Sony in the realm of portable music player and music sales. Pixar has outclassed Disney's own movies and is set to break the bonds of their origninal distribution agreement.

To the point of Classic (or lack thereof) support on the x86 Mac... I would guess the number of people actually using Classic now is very very low. In one years time it will be even lower. In two years time, it will be so low that it won't be an issue.

The last Classic app that I used was Outlook:2001 back in the early days of 10.3's release. A point release to 10.3 rendered Outlook inoperable, but luckily, at that time Office 2004 came out with Entourage, which made Outlook's demise semi-painless (Entourage is still missing some functionality of Outlook, but MS has stated that it should return in their next service pack, which I'm expecting soon....hopefully).

If Classic applications are essential to your survival, I suggest you keep a PPC Mac on hand. Otherwise, I doubt anybody will miss them once we get to 2007.
 

Qion

Uber Nothing
serpicolugnut said:
If Classic applications are essential to your survival, I suggest you keep a PPC Mac on hand. Otherwise, I doubt anybody will miss them once we get to 2007.
Exactly. If you only need to run one or two Classic apps, keep an outdated PowerMac nearby your workstation. Obviously if the application is a Classic application, you won't necessarily need a lot of computing horsepower to run it.
 

mindbend

Registered
I hope Apple doesn't spend one single second maintaining support for Classic. Let it go already. Either get with the program, or enjoy being stuck with OS 9 or Classic on a non-Intel box.

Even if there is some legacy app that people simply can't live without, fine, let em live with it on their old boxes. Don't drag the rest of of us down, Apple.

Classic is dead to me. (Though I give it a hearty thank you for getting me by for a while).

To anyone claming they can't live without Classic, I suggest they aren't trying hard enough. :)
 

symphonix

Scratch & Sniff Committee
I agree that there is no need to keep classic support, and that to try and do so would be a waste of programming resources. Steve gave his little funeral service and burial of Mac OS 9 in April 2002 (see http://www.macworld.com/2002/05/bc/06wwdc/ ) and even then it seemed high time that we leave Classic alone and look to the future. By that time all newly shipped Macs were already booting into Mac OS 10.2 Jaguar by default, and Classic was an optional install from the included CDs.

Besides, every time the operating system allows a program for another OS to be run in emulation, it only makes it easy for lazy (or unmotivated) developers to not bother porting the application to the native OS. Just think of how long it took to get OpenOffice to run in native Aqua as opposed to through X11 - since X11 worked, there was little motivation to port it.
 

RGrphc2

...InSaNe...
fryke said:
OS 9 is dead. For over two years at least. If you _rely_ on applications that still need Classic or even a computer booted into OS 9, get the developer to FINALLY release updates for the software. They've still got plenty of time - and they've obviously spent the past five years or so sleeping...
If they don't move - and so it seems after all these years, doesn't it... - you may _have_ to look into alternatives. Those dead horses shouldn't be bet on in my opinion.
It's true...OSes die off fairly quickly even on the PC world. I was a windows user till last year (lucky me i avoided all the transitions till the intel switch) Until last year i was still running windows 98 cause i didn't feel like upgrading my P2 :confused: and by the time i got the Dell (as a b-day gift) i was just annoyed with having to find programs that would run in it.

Mac user for life now... :D
I only use 1 Classic Application and it's a game that i can live with or without...no big deal for me. Unless I'm using a machine that still is running OS 9, my old school NEVER updated from Quark 4 to 6. I was stuck converting Quark 6 files to 5 then starting classic saving the 5 to a 4 just to print the damn thing! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Yea...sorry for the rant...if you don't use classic you don't need it. Everything's been updated by now
 

Lt Major Burns

"Dicky" Charlteston-Burns
apple haven't supported classic for years. it's still there, but they don't offer support for it. they always say "nothing to do with us now, upgrade your software or talk to third-party support groups"

but if it is being removed, ah well. (*meh*) it's been 5 years now.
 

sinclair_tm

wow, 1.4g is way faster!
i haven't had a mac that ran os x native untill 3 months ago, and then three years before that i made the move to 10.1.5 on my powermac 7500 and never looked back. i loved os x. it ran so much better then os 9, and prettier too. if i couldn't find an os x version of the software i was using, then i quite using it, and found a os x replacement. i think the only reason i have used classic in the past was to install appleworks from my os 9 install cd. then i'd update aw to the os x verion, and away i went. i have to agree with the statement that if for silly reason someone still 'needs' classic, keep an old powermac near by to run it. you can find then in trift stores for 20 bucks anymore.
 
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