switcher@winaddict.com

In my opinion:
if you think macs are great, fine. I do too. If you think windows is great, that's fine also. Can we stop arguing and trying to get these diehard fans to switch? It'll never work. I know, I would never switch to a PC. I have to admit, windows XP is much better than Mac OS X at some things, while mac os x is much better than windows at others. And they both accomplish pretty much the same stuff, just using different methods, and some may be more elegant than others...

PS. Hulkaros: calm down. you're not helping the cause at all, no offense.
 
Haha hulkaros


You can do the same on a PC, you just need to be smart enough to work out how :)
Sure, it will take a lot more fiddling around and the average user won't bother unless it's already set up for them - but it can be done.

They're both tools that can be used exactly the same way :)

I don't see why you're so uptight about it - I've agreed macs are much better for desktop/home environment, but for a large business/corporation - Windows, in my opinion is the way to go.
 
Rather than just repeat the typical platform bashing comments, how about I crush the opposition with the merits of OS X?

•UNIX foundation - POSIX compliance, preemptive multitasking, protected memory, piles of included GNU software, etc...
•Superior multiuser capabilities (not that sissy user profile sectioning; you can have multiple users at the same time)
•Source code level compatibility with tons of popular UNIX programs
•Highly intuitive GUI designed for the average user
•Excellent system configuration centralized in System Preferences (but much more can be configured for those brave enough)
•Packaged Internet and multimedia applications designed to "just work"
•Cocoa API that works with Objective C or Java to provide developers with a visual, fairly rapid application development process.
•Carbon API to allow fairly easy porting of older Mac software while retaining compatibility with OS 9
•Software that is tightly married to the hardware, greatly reducing maddening driver problems
•Rapid adaptation of new networking technologies - Bluetooth (yuck,) 802.11b, ipv6 (okay, it's not new, but you wouldn't guess from looking at the current Internet,) Rendezvous...

I'm sure I've forgotten some great things that my fellow Mac users will fill in, particularly in the area of OS X Server, since I've never used it (unfortunately.)

So, what does Windows have going for it? And I can't resist; I have to point out one shortcoming: type "dir c:\winnt\command\" sometime. The little pile of utilities you get is pathetic compared to /bin, /sbin, /usr/bin, /usr/sbin...

And I find it pointless to try and convert hardcore addicts, too. I just try to demoralize them enough so that they don't make bad recommendations to new users. :)
 
it's a computer, not a religion. i think it's funny how PC people climb onto Mac fora and try and convert the masses. same goes with mac users. to each his own... most everyone knows the benefits and downsides of each, even though some may be too stubborn to admit either one.

...round and round we go.
 
I am just now "switching" to the PC side. Okay, it is more something like having a second computer beside my Mac, though that PC will kick the ass of my Mac, but my Mac is 3 years old, so this is only fair.

I thought the current Macs are just too expensive for what they deliver, so I am buying a PC right now, and I will see what Apple will deliver the next year or so.

I cannot say anything about crashes right now, cause the box isn't quite running now (That's because I haven't gotten all components yet).
But I doubt it will crash.

People often buy cheap PCs and wonder why they crash. That is why they got a fast CPU in there as the only selling point, and all other things are really crap to get the cost down. Often it is some minor part like a crap powersupply that brings the computer down, and nobody thinks about these things.

When comparing PCs and Macs crashwise, than you should compare with a PC made out of high quality components.
But don't think this PC will be *that* much cheaper like some PC guys thell you the price difference between Macs and PCs is... ;)

You get what you pay for...
 
Originally posted by verlorenengel
Haha hulkaros


You can do the same on a PC, you just need to be smart enough to work out how :)
Sure, it will take a lot more fiddling around and the average user won't bother unless it's already set up for them - but it can be done.

They're both tools that can be used exactly the same way :)

I don't see why you're so uptight about it - I've agreed macs are much better for desktop/home environment, but for a large business/corporation - Windows, in my opinion is the way to go.
Click to expand...

I can agree with someone saying things like:
-Windows 2000 Server and above are AWESOME for serving clients
-Windows has MANY and GREAT games

But I CANNOT agree that the average or even the so-called power user needs to dig they way one has to dig with Windows in order to just do basic stuff... No, way!

Did you EVER teach or support a friend, a customer, a family person about Windows ANY version and Mac OS ANY version? Can you reply without residing on BS that the PC side of teaching/supporting on PC was easier? I think we all know the answer...

Also, reading your answer, I think you like going in front of the TV in order to change stations, aren't you? If NOT, why? After all it can be done this way too, can't it?

Oh, I forgot: It's different with computers... With PCs you can EAT loads of money from your customers while with Macs you will exit selling/supporting computer business...

I said it before and I will say it again: If one thinks that PCs are better than Macs and wants opinions GO to the Opinions forum and if you see Hulkaros replying to your so-called truth about PCs let me know... Cause believe me I reply here JUST to see how REALLY goofy one PC user can be by posting to News & Rumors and if this was not enough he continues to reply there because he thinks that's the correct forum... Oh, I got it... It's like Windows: You have SO MANY options that they confuse you!!! That's it! They are confused! They think that this News & Rumors forum works like a PC... It's another option for posting your Opinions... Ha, ha!

Yes, I am fool and dumb and they (the PC and even some Mac users) are wise and all-knowing creatures! How, they lose their way from Opinions to News & Rumors forums is beyond me... I am fool you see :eek: and they are smart :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by verlorenengel
Yes.

You have confused me.. your post makes you sound like you're 12.
Click to expand...

And I suppose flaming someone places you in a higher age bracket? I think it is time to invoke one of the priceless quotations from Larry Wall, creator of Perl:

There ain't nothin' in this world that's worth being a snot over.
-- Larry Wall in <1992Aug19.041614.6963@netlabs.com>
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by verlorenengel
Yes.

You have confused me.. your post makes you sound like you're 12.
Click to expand...

I knew it... I knew it...

You REALLY are a PC user! You are always confused... No matter what others tell you or trying to tell you, you just WANT to feel like it: Confused!

Also, a lesson you may understand:
From drunken people and kids you learn the truth...

Now, if you are NOT drunk and somehow you STILL make me 12 or even smaller, hmmmm... :D

Oh, did I mention that you continue to reply in News & Rumors forum? Yes... You are a PC user if you cannot recongize an Opinion forum from a News forum!

Go to the Opinions forum and see if I'll take my time to visit there EVEN for 1 reply to your useless posts here... Go and see me coming!
 
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
Uhhh.... You sure told him, didn't you? :rolleyes:

After reading that last post I can tell that this topic is dead. This is probably the last time I will even attempt to make sense of it.
 
I just have to add my two cents here.

I've been a PC user from day 1 and I build every one of my PC's from scratch. I do so because it allows me to keep old components I like in the new computer and upgrade one by one when need be. It's also easier on the wallet. What I find absolutely disgusting is the way people will say that XP is better than Mac OS X or Mac OS X is better than XP. There's no such thing as 'better' ... there's only 'better for your needs.' In my case, Windows is the only PC os that has everything I want. Linux is slow and fragmented, BeOS albeit incredible is not supported and Windows plays all games and programs fluidly... and I emphasize the word fluidly.

I have XP installed on my girlfriend's 533 MHZ p3 (I gave it to her) and it runs GREAT. With 256 megs ram, IE loads in a second, OE in around 2 and Office takes 3-4 at most. On my computer, a 1667 MHz Athlon XP, I can play every game and use every program and just about everything - except Diskeeper that views my 80 gig hard drive - loads in one second or less. However, there are problems.

For one, no matter how you cut it, making IE and OE a part of Windows that cannot be removed was a bad idea. Service Pack 1 somewhat clears up these issues but doesn't completely remove both programs. I like IE and OE, but I would like to have the choice to remove. Service Pack 1 also clears up a lot of issues, but it is inevitable for Microsoft to run up bugs when dealing with so many different pieces of hardware. It can slow down your system and with mine, it seems to have issues shutting down (even though I think it might be a faulty power button since I never press the power button all the way in, it might've screwed it up).

On the Mac side, there's no denying that Mac OS X is way more beautiful than anything Windows offers. You can use Object Desktop and Window FX and have it animate everything for you like Mac OS X, but it's never truly authentic even though it is quite beautiful. However, just like XP with Window FX, Mac OS X is slow. No matter what people here say, no matter ho miraculous people here say Jaguar is for their systems, the truth is Mac OS X is dead slow. It's a reality that Apple users will simply have to deal with. I can't recall any fully-featured Unix-based operating system being fast, as such neither is Mac OS X. The only true advantage that Mac OS X has over Windows aside from beauty is security. But who really cares about security to be honest? Most of the security issues Windows patched are exploits that nobody would have thought of anyway and could have affected at most 0.1% of the Windows population.

In the end though, Apple and Microsoft are both humongous corporation that will try to outdo each other. Whether you take XP or OS X, you'll get a good OS. With XP, you have better support and there's NO DENYING THAT because every company makes software primarily for Windows and secondly for Mac. Drivers as well are constantly updated and are available for just about every piece of hardware, not just a few like Mac. However, using Windows always leaves you open to something unexpected like a blue screen or a random crash of a program which is something Apple really has over Mac. Let's face it, Apple makes its own computers and only releases hardware it can support. Apple does not go as far as or even try to go as far as Windows does to support hardware. As a result, buying a Mac computer ensures that each piece of hardware works fluidly within that computer unless you upgrade, whereas there's no such guarantee with Windows.

To summarize:
Windows 2000+XP -> fast (do not try to deny this because it DOES run fast even on a 350 mhz machine) good hardware support, games aplenty, security risk and open to random crashes.

Mac OS X -> few games, slow but very fluid and seamless functionality between hardware in a machine that hasn't been upgraded. Secure, less prone to viruses, stable.

I should mention that I ONLY condone the use of 2000+XP on PC's. I despise Linux because of the fragmented development society it has become and I think that all support for ME, 98 and 95 should be disintegrated by support centers.
 
Originally posted by Annihilatus

To summarize:
Windows 2000+XP -> fast (do not try to deny this because it DOES run fast even on a 350 mhz machine) good hardware support, games aplenty, security risk and open to random crashes.
Click to expand...
I think random crashes will only occur if there is a hardwareproblem.
I worked on PCs at work for hours and I never had any crash, only some apps that might crash (Same thing that also happens in Mac OS X), but the system itself was stable.

Originally posted by Annihilatus
Mac OS X -> few games, slow but very fluid and seamless functionality between hardware in a machine that hasn't been upgraded. Secure, less prone to viruses, stable.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say OS X is slow.
Just like you said Windows XP with Windows FX is slow, OS X would be much faster on slower machines if some of the iCandy would be optional for them.

Steve Jobs said: "...and we like to have options". Maybe he should think about that his customers also would like to have options!
 
I thnk the persistant problem is people don't have experience with our platform.
They assume we should switch because of browsing, processor, user base, and protocol. Windows is good for gaming until your video card is no longer supported.
Yeah, i admit mac os x crashes. ISP's have poor support for mac's. I can't even file transfer on an im. But ya know what,
I just reinstalled 10.1.5 on two hard drives, didn't even erase my data.
While a majority of people using mac os x have glanced at the terminal my relatives who own pcs won't even go near the command line.
If you use a computer for 3-5 years you can justify the price of a mac.
It's not like mac os x is Virtual PC 5 with windows loaded on it.
Well i don't know if that explained my view but i just wanted to point out
the hulk in marvel vs. capcom wasn't the best character to fight with.
 
Originally posted by Tigger
I thought the current Macs are just too expensive for what they deliver, so I am buying a PC right now, and I will see what Apple will deliver the next year or so.....................People often buy cheap PCs and wonder why they crash. That is why they got a fast CPU in there as the only selling point, and all other things are really crap to get the cost down. Often it is some minor part like a crap powersupply that brings the computer down, and nobody thinks about these things.......................When comparing PCs and Macs crashwise, than you should compare with a PC made out of high quality components.
But don't think this PC will be *that* much cheaper like some PC guys thell you the price difference between Macs and PCs is... ;)

You get what you pay for...
Click to expand...

The stability is well worth the cost. In the end of your message you hit the point of the higher end PCs being costing as much as Macs, as they are.

The WinTel computers we use at work are high end Dell systems. They crash. My brothers AMD Gateway, top of the line 1 year ago, crashes. I agree with some problems arising from the use of low quality "junk", err..I mean parts, in computers, but the OS plays a major role too.
 
Originally posted by Annihilatus
To summarize:
Windows 2000+XP -> fast (do not try to deny this because it DOES run fast even on a 350 mhz machine) good hardware support, games aplenty, security risk and open to random crashes.

Mac OS X -> few games, slow but very fluid and seamless functionality between hardware in a machine that hasn't been upgraded. Secure, less prone to viruses, stable.

I should mention that I ONLY condone the use of 2000+XP on PC's. I despise Linux because of the fragmented development society it has become and I think that all support for ME, 98 and 95 should be disintegrated by support centers.
Click to expand...

Xp runs fast on a 350mhz computer? You've got to be kidding, it runs like sh|t on our 1.4ghz P4...runs slow on an AMD 1.2ghz Gateway. It has since the second the computers came out of the box. It runs ok on our 2.66ghz P4, but the darn thing is brand new (72 hours). I give it 3 months max before it starts to slow down.
 
Originally posted by WinAddict
i'm not going to argue with you about win2k. plenty of people will go back even further and insist on using NT for stability. their choice. however, plenty of people use and trust XP, millions in fact, and it's not fair for you to compare win2k to macosx because you chose to limit yourself that way. if you want to compare go ahead.

i agree with you on the closed boxes. i had a newer subsystem and faster memory, etc. my machine is three years old, and i hope i can make it last a while longer before i get a new one. as for firewire, the pc audience is more diverse and less artistically concentrated. pc makers will leave it out to save a few bucks in a very competitive market. as devices using firewire saturate the market, we'll see firewire BUILT into PCs. anyway, are you a sissy? what's wrong going down to Best Buy finding a firewire card and installing it? i installed a USB 2.0 card recently. piece of cake. did i wish it had USB 2.0 BUILT IN? you bet. i'm not buying a whole new machine or moving to the mac just to get firewire.

Rhino, yeah, your points are well taken. i've bombed my share of pre-MacOSXs and i'm not pointing out those cases. i wouldn't kick OSX out of bed. that said, XP with SP1 rocks.
Click to expand...

Well, if you want to compare XP to OS X, here's one for you.

My PC
Pentium II 333mhz Hewlett Packard
288mb RAM
Windows XP Professional SP1
52x CD Rom
GeForce2 32mb

my iMac
G3 333mhz
96mb RAM
mac OS X.2 (not even X.2.1)
24x CD Rom
6mb video RAM.

It takes my PC 5 minutes to get to a useable desktop when i boot it.
It takes my iMac 2 minutes to get to a useable desktop.
On my PC, half the time, Word XP won't open right. I have to Ctrl+Alt+Del it and try again.
On my iMac, Word v.X opens every time. And works.
Windows Media Player on XP is unuseably slow on the PC.
I can have iTunes and Quicktime running at the same time on my iMac.
The PC has to be restarted every hour or so, either due to crash or total slooooow doooooown.
The iMac has been running for 2 weeks so far, still running as fast, and still without a crash.

As you can see here, the lower spec iMac has beaten the higer spec PC. I think that was a fair operating system comparison don't you? Especially condisdering XP had more then double it's required RAM, whereas Mac OS X was running with LESS than required.
 
Did ANYONE (including me :D ) mentioned that Windows ANY version needs a nice format now and then because after some time they lose ALL their so-called performance and start crashing every day (YES, even XP)?

When was the last time that one formatted his Mac? We use at work (and so are our customers) Macs who NEVER got formatted or even defragmented and you know what? They still work with 90% of their speed if not 100%... While our Windows machines:
DO
-Defrag
-Check&Fix disk errors
-Download the 100th patch for that hole of IE, OE, Windows, Office, etc.
-Format
-Re-install
LOOP

Well, if time is money then how much money people lose with Windows, I don't know! But I know for sure that it's got to be LOADS of it... :D

Yeah, I see it again: I MUST switch to Windows!

Now, if M$ had a www.microsoft.com/switch/ to help me switch, hmmm... :) :p :D :p ;) :)
 
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