There is only ONE Reason to buy a Macintosh

Apple's been as clear as they need to be. The move to intel will start in June 2006 for users and now for developers. The PowerPC processors will be introduced in new machines until sometime in 2007, when the last line of Macs will go intel. More exact information? Not by Steve, he's been burnt by IBM and won't promise a chip he _thinks_ will be used in June 2006 but might have to be changed because of a possible (always possible) delay or something. No talk about 64bit or 32bit? That's because intel offers a choice of processors by June 2006, some of which do, others _don't_ offer 64bit extensions. What more do you need clarified?

I actually expect Apple to talk PowerPC again when they next produce a product, since Steve's been clear about that there are quite a few products based on PowerPC to be unveiled before June 2006.

A switch like that isn't easily communicable. Had they just released a Mac mini with an intel processor last week for everyone, it would have been an even greate disaster, because every Carbon/Cocoa app out there would've only run in emulation until devs had the time to at least recompile.

But a year in advance seems to be much too much time to grasp for the average user, as far as I can see the reactions. People mix current products with roadmaps and vice versa. People seem to forget completely how the PowerPC repeatedly has let us down and suddenly seem to believe it was sort of the holy grail, where it had been part of a large problem for Apple. (It attracted the geeks, but not the wide public, who _really_ thought MHz was everything and probably thought a PIII was more or less the same as a G3, because of the "version number".)
 
Definition of Idiot: A foolish or stupid person.

I don't know about you - but having been seduced thru years and years of Apple marketing about the virtues of the PowerPC over anything else... to suddenly be told that it was all bullshit...

Well... I'm feeling a little foolish!
 
Well, after switching back to Mac, reading and believing (to a point) some of the propaganda, evangelising about it and shelling out SO MUCH MONEY on software that I could have bought another two Mac minis for friends or family, I am feeling like I've been played for a fool to a degree.

..and to take advantage of the Intel chips I'll have to re-purchase everything again! I guess Rosetta won't be exactly a speed demon on an Intel Mac mini?
 
tumbleguts said:
Definition of Idiot: A foolish or stupid person.

I don't know about you - but having been seduced thru years and years of Apple marketing about the virtues of the PowerPC over anything else... to suddenly be told that it was all bullshit...

Well... I'm feeling a little foolish!
Click to expand...
The switch to Intel doesn't mean that anything said about the PPC was bullshit, it's simply that Apple can't continue to develop competitive products with anything the PPC roadmap has in store for the desktop in the coming years. Apple doesn't necessarily see Intel as a better alternative in terms of performance, but that Intel has a roadmap with a release schedule that has a steady progression forward. That Intel has performance that's close enough, equal to and in some cases better than what PPC has to offer for now and the foreseeable future and that they're able to deliver those products to market.
 
Thanks "Oscar Castillo" for giving me the - "NEW" - Apple marketing blurb...

Gee wizz - the way Apple keeps changing its tune these days you have to think twice to find out which side of the fence your sitting on.

Now look... - don't get me wrong... I completely understand that this switch to Intel is a business decision. And I might add, I think it's a very smart business decision.
(thank-u "Oscar" for the rational reality).

However, my original point remains (see post #42 above). That being, that Apple has always been very good and successful at marketing their products. And most of us have been both seduced and comforted by powerful "PowerPC" propaganda. So, it's no wonder that this "business decision" has caused such angst within the mac community. (Even this thread was founded on the idea that the ONLY reason to buy a Mac was because of it's amazing PowerPC processor!) The irrational way people are responding has a direct corelation to the "bullshit" they have been sold. Apple's gift for marketing has backfired.

I didn't mean that what was said about the PPC was bullshit. But (in general) most marketing is. Apple continually highlighted and hyped-up the virtues of the PPC and used it as one of their main marketing reasons to invest in a Mac. Consequently, (good business or not) it comes as no surprise that people are reacting to this decision the way they are, now the tables have turned.

In fact, Steve Jobs is attempting to directly challenge his own "reality distortion field". Whether the PPC is bullshit or not is irrelivant. We were "sold" the idea that the PPC was better than Intel (and briefly it was) - but now, we are being forced to accept the complete opposite... yep, it's a "flux" moment.
 
Hm. I guess it's just not that black and white. If you ever had an interest in CPU technology, it was always clear that each kind of processor had a different main goal. Back when the Athlon was new, it was clearly a beast at integer number crunching, but the PowerPC shined in floating point processing. But the months passed, the Athlon scaled well, the PPC didn't scale at all. And while the generic truth of integer vs. floating point was still true, real world applications showed that although maybe PPC was the generally better idea, the Athlon was the better performer (although not a power saving one).

I believe Apple _really_ believed in the PowerPC. It was elegant. It was "more Mac" than any processor out there. But sometimes in business you simply have to do a reality-check. According to my information, IBM wanted more money from Apple to further develop the PowerPC. Being the one main customer, this was probably simply becoming too expensive for Apple. Seeing how IBM at the same time was dancing with Sony and Microsoft (Cell being not a good option for desktop/notebook PCs, Xenon being exclusive to Microsoft), it probably just stopped making sense to push the PowerPC again and again. It's not _just_ business. I remember all too well how Apple again and again "failed beautifully", creating wonderful systems that simply were much too expensive to reach more than a niche market. If I look at what I've paid for my PowerBook 5300ce back then and look at what I've paid for my current PowerBook, I'd say I'm glad that this new PB is using standard type monitor connectors, RAM etc. instead of highly sophisticated Apple technologies that in the end only mean I have to buy special versions of accessories that _again_ cost more.

What Apple said about the PowerPC wasn't wrong, wasn't bullshit. It wasn't the whole truth and only the truth, either. That's how marketing goes. You wouldn't have wanted Apple to say anything like "Yeah, we know, our processors suck in MHz, but they make up for it in elegance"... We _wanted_ to hear that the PPC was the greatest thing out there.
 
I think we can all learn a lesson about hype. I have long been an uber Mac fan, like most of you. But 2-3 years ago (pre-G5) when the MHZ gap was at its worst, I started becoming very pragmatic about analyzing speeds between the platforms.

I ran numerous tests performing identical operations on multiple computers, PC and Mac. It was after doing this that I realized that with few exceptions, the faster Intel (and AMD) chips were just that...faster. For me, it was apparent that the MHZ myth was no myth at all.

Now don't get me wrong, there ARE exceptions. Look at Motion, for example. That is one amazing app with nothing can touch it in the Windows world. (In the price range anyway, and even then, not as complete as Motion in many areas).

Since media production is my business, speed is critical. PCs wipe the floor with Macs for 3D work (though Luxology is changing that tune). On the other hand, video work is quite fast on the Macs and definitely more efficient overall due to workflow and better software. MP3 ripping on G4/G5 Macs is REALLY fast. Games are not.

I could go on and on with examples. So could you guys. My point is just that I have learned to ignore marketing information from ALL sources and rely on places like barefeats.com (which seems fair even given the obvious Mac bias).

Saying the G5 is "pound for pound" better than a given Intel is a misleading argument, given that the Pentiums are so much "heavier". They easily make up the difference in theoretical technology limitations.

Apple has clearly recognized and accepted this harsh reality and decided to take it on, as painful as it may be. I have a consultant who used to work for Apple as a top exec. He told me something enlightening based on meetings with Steve, which was that Steve fully recognizes that the creative industry IS Apple. Steve/Apple see the creative industry as the NUMBER ONE PRIORITY (in spite of what this iPod phenom might lead you to believe). The only way you can appease the creative industry is with the fastest, highest end machines and top notch software to run on those machines. Apple's got the software part down (just look at how Final Cut revolutionized an entire industry). I believe Intel will help us get there on the hardware side.
 
tumbleguts said:
Thanks "Oscar Castillo" for giving me the - "NEW" - Apple marketing blurb...

Gee wizz - the way Apple keeps changing its tune these days you have to think twice to find out which side of the fence your sitting on.

Now look... - don't get me wrong... I completely understand that this switch to Intel is a business decision. And I might add, I think it's a very smart business decision.
(thank-u "Oscar" for the rational reality).

However, my original point remains (see post #42 above). That being, that Apple has always been very good and successful at marketing their products. And most of us have been both seduced and comforted by powerful "PowerPC" propaganda. So, it's no wonder that this "business decision" has caused such angst within the mac community. (Even this thread was founded on the idea that the ONLY reason to buy a Mac was because of it's amazing PowerPC processor!) The irrational way people are responding has a direct corelation to the "bullshit" they have been sold. Apple's gift for marketing has backfired.

I didn't mean that what was said about the PPC was bullshit. But (in general) most marketing is. Apple continually highlighted and hyped-up the virtues of the PPC and used it as one of their main marketing reasons to invest in a Mac. Consequently, (good business or not) it comes as no surprise that people are reacting to this decision the way they are, now the tables have turned.

In fact, Steve Jobs is attempting to directly challenge his own "reality distortion field". Whether the PPC is bullshit or not is irrelivant. We were "sold" the idea that the PPC was better than Intel (and briefly it was) - but now, we are being forced to accept the complete opposite... yep, it's a "flux" moment.
Click to expand...
I think it was H.G. Wells who said marketing is legalised lying.

You do have a point. Steve Jobs, or lets make him our friend and just call him Steve, could squeeze a turd into a bowl with comments like "we're really excited about this.." and the fanatics will lap it up AND buy the sprinkles to go with it. Apple are great at marketing and people buy into it as gospel truth, even when it's contradictory.

As I wrote on my weblog, there are two ways of seeing this Intel move, depending on whether you buy the spin...

Starting mid 2006 Apple will introduce Macs with Intel chips, the OS X is already ported with the Rosetta technology to run current PowerPC-based Mac applications, developers will be creating Universal Binaries to run on both systems during the two year transition.

Sounds great when put like that, especially with the Steve Jobs Reality Distortion Field effect.

Alternatively...
Apple are phasing out their PowerPC-based Macs as they've hit a wall, leaving current customers pi$$ing in the wind for upto 2 years. Apple have ported their OS to the PC architecture and are probably going to become an expensive PC compatible maker which will be branded Macintosh, not that the fans will know or care. Some limited support of PowerPC apps will be provided albeit slowly and provided the apps don't make use of anything that came after the G3 processor. If you want your apps to run at speeds better than a crusty G3, you're going to have to buy EVERYTHING again! Universal Binaries, the application vendors are rubbing their hands with joy.

The truth, as per usual, is probably in the unexplored grey area in-between.

The sick thing is IF Apple said in 9 months that the transition was to be cancelled, you'd see another flip, "Yeah well, who wants the Mac to be a manky PC?". "PowerPC is great, it's just taken time for IBM to get it's act together, but we knew they'd come through for us".

I believe! I believe! Whatever you say Steve, I WILL BELIEVE!!
 
My final thoughts on this, as I'm getting bored of the subject now, it's been done to death on several threads and I've vented most of my rage now, are...

1. The decision, right or wrong is done and I have no power to change it.
2. Steve, aka Muaddib, the Mac-ite Mahdi, has seen the future of what Intel are offering and know things we dont.

As long as the new machines are NOT just PCs sold with hype and propaganda to fool people into thinking they are something MORE than just a PC, I don't give a stuff and will upgrade my beautiful Mac mini next year.

I'm done. ;-) I'll revisit this in a year, if someone reminds me.
 
The 5 Stages of Grief:

Denial (what the #$@#! Apple can't do that! This isn't happening!)
Anger (why? Is Apple #$%#ing with me!!!)
Bargaining (They have to be dual boot AND with better graphics cards...)
Depression (My new G5 suddenly de-valued by $2000)
Acceptance (I'm ready for whatever Apple knows is best...)

Gee - from comments like above it looks like we might be coming around to "Acceptance". Reading back over this thread I've noticed that some really constructive and valid points have been made - some that haven't appeared in other threads. Worthwhile.

In returning to previous comments about bullshit / marketing / & deception.
I want to clarify that in no way was I 'bashing' the PPC. Hell, I'm still stuck on a suped-up G4 Quicksilver which I still think is the bees-knees! My intention was to offer a relative but different perspective of explaining the stirred-up emotions that this issue has created. And pointing a disapproving finger at Apple's marketing department.

From the little that I understand about processor design (cleaner/elegant/efficient/etc), I guess I'm disappointed that the PPC is unlikely to be developed further. And although that may not necessarily be the case - I'm thinking that without a relatively major company like Apple pushing for its development, its future is looking a little bleak - even despite the apparent development limitations.

As I've stated earlier, I think this is a smart move by Apple. I like the idea that Apple will now show it's worth thru software design. I really believe that what makes a Macintosh a Macintosh is (and always has been) the operating system - and not the processor inside. So, bring it on...
 
Mac OS X will only run on Macs - Apple has no plans to sell Mac OS X software to run on PCs.

Apple has no plans to sell or support Windows.
 
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