Tiger Preview - no new bar?

Cat said:
As we now know, the widgets appear to be nothing but web-pages (with some extra's). I don't think it would be difficult to hack them to run outside of the Dashboard. First of all, what happens if you load them in Safari? Does it simply display them inside the browser window? What happens if you try to run the JavaScript with the Java AppletRunner? Can we build a simple app to run them on the Desktop? If they just need WebKit to run them, I think it will be relatively easy ... morover, what can Widgets do that we can't already do in AppleScript (I mean functionally, not aesthetically)?
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Widgets are NOT web pages. They are widgets that use the same languages and structures that web pages use, with a little Cocoa thrown in, but they are most definitely not HTML pages -- they're actually XML, but they will not open in a browser.

They are extremely easy to write, though, if you've ever written a little JavaScript... for example, here's a little code from Arlo & Perry from their Calendar widget:

Code: 
// Write the Days of the week
for (var i = 0; i < 7; i++) {
	weeksShadow[i] = new Text();
	weeksShadow[i].hOffset = (i * 30) + 37;
	weeksShadow[i].vOffset = 34;
	weeksShadow[i].size = 10;
	weeksShadow[i].font = "Arial";
	weeksShadow[i].alignment = "right";
	weeksShadow[i].color = "#000000";
			
	weeks[i] = new Text();
	weeks[i].hOffset = (i * 30) + 36;
	weeks[i].vOffset = 33;
	weeks[i].size = 10;
	weeks[i].font = "Arial";
	weeks[i].alignment = "right";
	weeks[i].color = "#ffffff";

See? Reguar JavaScript style programming... I think I might take a stab at one of my own soon!

Also, I highly doubt that Apple's Java AppletRunner will run a JavaScript. Just because they share four letters doesn't make them the same thing. In actuality, only the syntax between Java and JavaScript is similar (and still different)... in every other regard, though, they are completely different, incompatible beasts. Java is not JavaScript, and JavaScript is not Java.
 
I thought they were talking about Dashboard widgets, not Konfabulator widgets...

Dashboard widgets will load in a browser.
 
"Dashboard widgets will load in a browser."
vs.
"dashboard gadgets will not load in safari"

:) anyone with tiger who care to prove either of these statements wrong or right?
 
Decado said:
"Dashboard widgets will load in a browser."
vs.
"dashboard gadgets will not load in safari"

:) anyone with tiger who care to prove either of these statements wrong or right?
Click to expand...

i just did :)
 
ah, such a strikingly sublimal amount of evidence you presented in your argument :)
is the widgets loose little things you can throw around or are they embedded in some kind of application (dashboard)? i know they are presented through dashboard, but are the physical files free to drag to Safari?
 
Konfabulator has Widgets.
Dashboard will have Gadgets.

From reports on other sites, the Gadgets appear pretty safe and can not be tampered with via external manipulation even though they will be web-based.

to quelch security concerns: even when run locally in Safari, all the gadgets that interfere with the system info, most importantly Adress Book are non-functional. You can't even change the iTunes track So there's clearly more to gadgets than just HTML+JavaScript.
Click to expand...
 
ElDiablo: They may not be literally webpages, but consider this:
A Dashboard widget is a bundle that contains a principal HTML file and any supporting code that the widget requires (be it CSS, JS, images, or native code). A widget can add an optional interface to native code, written in Objective-C, that can be bound into JavaScript and made accessible from the HTML document's JS window object.

...

As for many of the animations, fades, slides, etc in the widgets themselves., they simply look so damn cool because of Safari's rich support for CSS3 used in conjunction with DHTML. Do you know what I talked about at WWDC? Image replacement. Sliding doors. Using opacity to create fade effects. CSS3 text truncation. Web standards. All of which are being used to full effect in Dashboard widgets. Our standards support has grown so rich and our engine has become so smooth at effects that people are constantly mistaking pure JS/DHTML/CSS stuff that people are doing for something fancier. I've heard "That's HTML?!" several times in the past week.
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As WebKit is the engine for displaying widgets, I think it would not be very difficult to "hack" the system to make them appear outside of the Dashboard. I don't have Tiger so I cannot try it out. Maybe widgets will not load just like that by dragging them onto SAfari, but can you llok at the code? Can it be freely modified? Can you write your own using some kind of template? Can you see what would prevent it from loading in a browser? Some time ago there was a hint on MacosXhints about writing a browser in XCode simply with one line of code and calling WebKit. It would not be difficult to make a "widget runner" IMO.
 
Decado said:
ah, such a strikingly sublimal amount of evidence you presented in your argument :)
is the widgets loose little things you can throw around or are they embedded in some kind of application (dashboard)? i know they are presented through dashboard, but are the physical files free to drag to Safari?
Click to expand...

if you take a gadget and try to open it with safari, nothing happens. is this enough evidence for you?

the gadgets are just like konfabulator widgets on the outside. the exist seperately from OS X though. you can drag them around when you press the hotkey to bring them on screen. you cant drag them into safari because they exist seperately.

if you've used konspose, they gadgets exist in that type of state all the time.

some are customizable, some are not.
 
Well, seeing as they're called widgets all over the page on Apple's site, my guess would be that they're going to go with the name Widgets in the final version.

They were probably going to go with gadgets, but changed their mind. I seriously doubt the change of mind was the other way round as they could VERY easily update their website.

I also see no reason they'd call them widgets all over their website if they had no intention of calling them that. A lot more people will see the website that the wwdc preview.
 
Widgets, as a name for those items, has a much longer history than Konfabulator.


And talk from people who have the Tiger demo says the library info and other system stuff calls them Gadgets. So I suppose it wouldn't be incorrect to call the Dashboard items widgets or Gadgets, and Konfabulator's as widgets or Widgets.

But I guess we'll all have to wait until early next year for the final choice, whatever it is.
 
Could everyone please try and stick a *little* bit on topic? Or is it just the time for turning every thread into a Konfab/Dashboard discussion? Widgets, gadgets: Whatever.

Like last year with Panther, the first preview of Tiger is not feature complete. Those who have access to the builds will see a few ups and downs between builds before Apple starts to finalise the feature set. It's going to take a bit longer with Tiger, too, since they gave themselves a few months more time.

That menubar will probably arrive in one of the next few builds. The Spotlight-icon at least already has got that new look (and you can see it across the OS in several places even today with Safari's buttons for example). I guess we'll see more of these changes soon.
 
a few months more time is an understatement. 1 half of 2005 gives them potentially 12 months. jaguar and panther were released 4 months after wwdc.
 
theNonsuch - it seems *fairly* stable, I haven't run into anything major yet. The whole system went down when trying to install shapeshifter and applying a theme, but thats expected since the menu bar is slightly changed (thanks to spotlight) and all, but most everything works fine. MSN Messenger behaved fine, although there were some were shadows around the messenger icon when it went to any of the away status'. One time when I logged out, it never went to the login screen (waited ten minutes) so it forced me to restart. Also, whenever the display goes to sleep (not the whole computer) whenever you go to use it it will take 10 seconds to show up like it would if the whole computer was asleep and you woke it, but its not really a big deal. Safari 2.0 unexpectedly quit once but I've used it a lot and that was the only instance. I have some grips about safari 2.0, a lot of web pages do not display correctly and will have white lines in between stuff, etc. Dashboard has worked fine, one time I was unable to close out of a clock widget but it functiosn fine. everything else has worked fine, I just wish steve and apple would have been smart enough to have given out the latest build, especially since it looked to host a lot more improvements and looked overall more stable. One thing, I do not think the build includes H.264, quicktime doesn't seem any better or have the ability to have things at better resolutions, and I don't think iChat incorporates the new conferencing cabilities (again, because I don't think H.264 is in the build). Could this be why the late delay for Tiger, could they have to wait until H.264 starts shipping in DVD players before using it first or something like that? Also, automater in the newer build is a bit different then pipeline in the preview, the interface seems sllightly improved and I also love that robot icon. I still haven't installed xcode 2.0 so I'm not sure if core image and core video is even present. overall, the preview isn't too impresive, but I have found myself accidently hitting F12 in panther expecting the widgets or Gadgets to pop up.............I think I would have been a lot more impressed if it had been the build steve was using, oh well.
 
well u need to run a mp4 file that has been encoded with the h.264 codec in the first place i think. but ichat and stuff use it for streaming video.. any difference there?
 
jonmichael23 said:
...hes real name is l#0n km1#c (middle name g#r0ld)...
Click to expand...
Isn't publishing this info on the Internet a good way to get him fired?

23 year career... Easy come... Easy go!
jonmichael23 said:
...hopefully he'll get me a good job someday.
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Not looking too likely...
 
Cat said:
What happens if you try to run the JavaScript with the Java AppletRunner?
Click to expand...
A Java Applet is a specific form of Java application. Since Java and JavaScript are completely different technologies, I'd expect this to do nothing.
 
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