tiger running SO SLOW on G4 powebook

J

jennie333

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I am going crazy! Ok, so I am not exactly an early adopter, but I just updated my g4 powerbook from panther (10.3.9) to Tiger. And, it so much slower, i can't stand it. everything is slower, all my applications are incredibly slow to load (sometime over 60 sec), switching between apps is slow (30 sec +) and often when switching one or the other app will hang and never recover. it is really bad. I am going to have to switch back for now, but i would like to be able to run tiger if I can figure this out!

my computer: 1.33 GHz PowerPC G4 17" with 1.5 GB memory,80 GB drive with 16 GB free. 1 user, i am (obviously) the admin. I updated it using Tiger 10.4.6 using clean install, then used migration assistant to migrate my user files from a backup. Then updated to 10.4.8.

I repaired permissions, I ran macjanitor. i checked to see that all my memory is showing up (it is) i even tried setting up a second user, and working on some of my graphics files from that user account--no better.

Any suggestions? I don't know what the problem is!
 
open Activity Monitor. sort by CPU, or memory, is MDimport taking up a lot?

mdimport is the Spotlight index. it runs in the background updating metadata to spotlight. on first run (like upgrading to Tiger), MDimport needs to index the whole hard drive. you can confirm this by clicking on the spotlight icon in the menu bar. it'll be 'in progress, with an estimated time.

once it's complete, Tiger is fast. faster than panther for many things.
 
No, it is currently taking 00.00% with 4 threads. I am 100% sure that spotlight is done. I have been running Tiger for days now, because I am too busy to restore Panther!

That is part of what is weird--nothing is hitting the cpu hard all the time. it seems that switching, from photoshop to freehand, for example, causes the app I am switching to to take up the rest of the available cpu; 30%, 60%....and then it stays like that for a long time. 30 seconds. a minute. more...or it hangs and never recovers.

My internet (with no change to settings, or setup) is also slower. Even a simple act like "new email" or "paste" or "new browser window" is slower.

I should also mention the main software I am using: macromedia freehand mx, photoshop 7, acrobat pro, microsoft word and excel 2004, firefox, eudora (for email), and palm desktop. I use quicksilver, which kind of runs in the background, and also a program called earthdesk, a screen saver. Turning off any/all programs and then running just the main ones (photoshop, freehand, eudora) did not help. I don't see anything strange in the activity monitor...i don't know what all the processes are, but i don't see anything hogging a lot of cpu space continuously. The Window Server seems to be taking up more than it used to, but only 6-12%

i should also mention that i first installed tiger as an update, but when that was so slow, I tried the clean install, which, as i mentioned, did not help. And I ran the 10.4.8 combo update.

also, in the console log, I am getting some "The function CGSReadObjectFromCString is obsolete. Use of this function may cause an overall degradation in the performance of this application, or of the system as a whole." There are a bunch of these with different functions. And I also was getting "Attempt to release a printing object without first doing a retain!!!"

I just had photoshop freeze on me, while attempting to stroke a path in a ery simple file...this never used to happen to me in panther!

thanks, jennie
 
5.0.4. I don't use it, though. I assume it got updated with the clean install and the 10.4.8 combo update?

I checked out your website, by the way. cool t-shirts.

jennie
 
he he, thanks.

damn, i really thought i'd be that. can you try reinstalling iLife?

also, try restarting the computer while holding shift as it boots. it'll take forever to start up, but it'd be in Safe Mode. if it runs fine in safe mode then we could see what else we can do
 
Launch /Applications/Utilities/Console.app and look through the logs to see if there isn't something constantly throwing error messages.

How is the available drive space? When space get tight nearly all processes suffer.
 
I have almost 12GB free on a "80" (really 74) GB hardrive (the original). enough?

yeah i have been leaving the console log up and looking at it while i work.

in the console log, I am getting some "The function CGSReadObjectFromCString is obsolete. Use of this function may cause an overall degradation in the performance of this application, or of the system as a whole." There are a bunch of these with different functions. And I also was getting "Attempt to release a printing object without first doing a retain!!!"
Click to expand...
 
12GB is borderline. apple reccommend 10-15% free space. open activity monitor to see the size of the VM file (it's under the memory tab at the bottom), although 1.5gb is more than enough.

is spotlight working ok? did you start up in safe mode?
 
spotlight is working fine, and i have 14.48 gb vm. I haven't had a chance to restart in safe mode, i have been working...and i am scared. i can't afford to have things get any worse!

ok i'll do it now. thanks for all your help...i'll update tomorrow.
jennie
 
Okay, i am in safe mode (i figured i worked 12 hours today, what's one more, right?)

It is pretty strange...looks a little like system 9. i haven't seen the spinning stopwatch in a long time.

So, it is fast. Normally so...back to normal speed. whew. I don't think i realized how annoying it was until it stopped.

I don't have a lot of startup items and i started them all up plus my normal apps so that i could see how it handled the strain. freehand photoshop illustrator quicksilver eudora palm desktop firefox activity monitor acrobat pro itunes earthdesk, menu calander clock overflow radioshark monitor are all running, about normal for me. Seems fine. the only thing that isn't running is APE. I know, i know. but turning it off didn't help either.

And now i am using 10.41 GB VM.

I guess it could be fonts....? I do have a lot of fonts installed, occupational hazard. i really should get a good font manager app.

What i don't get is, I set up a second user account, with nothing loaded at all, to test and see if it was any better, and it wasn't. And none of the user fonts or login items or anything was running then either. and it wasn't better at all. So what is the clean boot magic?

thanks again,
jennie
 
Safe Boot just boots what's needed, and you may be right on the fonts.

in Font Book, choose File > Validate File, then point it toward the folder that contains all your user fonts (i couldn't tell you where this would be, as mine are in a custom folder). this will assess all the fonts in that folder, and throw up results for all of them. those with a red cross you can get rid of. they'll only cause problems.

other things it doesn't load are Quartz Extreme, which uses the graphics card to render the desktop, all audio devices, other graphics stuff like Core Image, any fonts not used by the system, spotlight, dashboard etc. it could be any one of these.
 
In general, i advise to re-install a clean mac os x 10.4 and test your system performance at that moment. If performance is oke, start installing stuff, but check performance after each installation. When performance fails to be oke, most likely the stuff just installed is causing the problem, although ofcourse it could be an conflict between multiple programs. If performance is bad after clean installation with nothing else installed yet, well you most likely are in a lot of trouble ...

Although it might look like a lot of work, in general it helps in identifying the problem more quickly, thus saving time.


Good luck, Kees
 
When I was running on a G3 Imac DV (1st Generation) Previously, I installed thousands of fonts in 1 go. Causing a slowdown in Performance and Photoshop7 being unable to open. Usually it closes at the loading screen. Everything works well after I deleted all the fonts, and only install those that I really need. Till today, I still practise this on my G4Powerbook 1.67ghz.
 
Okay, I have 3,739 fonts in my user fonts folder ...is that just clearly too many? It wasn't causing me a problem in Panther...I didn't install them all at once or even recently.

It also seemed like tiger added some fonts, there was a bunch of new stuff in my font list. Maybe it handles fonts differently?

I really, truly can't do a clean install and not migrate my data. i am not that organized, and i just don't have all the stuff i would need, at hand. It would take...forever. and i only have the one computer, and i am working every day all day right now. I backup, and I took a day over the weekend to upgrade, I really didn't think it was going to be this big of a deal, given that it is a mac...

So i have disabled all the APE stuff and pared down my startup items. It looks like I can't validate user fonts until i restart, but I will do that, and disable a bunch of fonts. What else should I do before i restart in normal mode, which i have to do because i need my fonts?

what can i do about Quartz Extreme? I don't have any audio devices except a radioshark, which i can just unplug. Not sure what Core Image is...anything else i should do?
 
I know you are working very hard and don't seem to have time to fix your Mac, but unfortunately most folk don't seem to pay much attention to their machines in their "down" time either.
This generally results in deadline disaster.

I'm not chastising, just pointing out a common scenario.

Anywhoo, that is a boatload of VM you got there. My machine has 128MB of VM space allocated (58MB used) with 1 Gig of RAM.

Why is your VM so huge? And, yes. You also have a boatload of fonts.
You should move your fonts out of your home folder's /Library folder and see if the machine's VM goes back to a normal size, and performance is returned to expected state after shutdown (pause 10 seconds here) startup.

Then load the fonts you want for your current project only. If it turns out to be a fonts issue, you will need to evaluate font management solutions. Linotype provides a competent free product for Macs. :)
http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/19514

If it's not fonts, then, erm...
 
I actually have the linotype product, it is pretty good. but, it kept crashing on me. I was hoping it might work better in tiger.

i have no idea why i am using so much VM...i have 1.5 gb ram. is it something i can access to control or is it system-controlled?

I am not on a deadline any more than normal; i try to pay attention to my system, i make sure the system processes run, or i run mac janitor. i try to keep at least 10% of the disk free. I try to keep all my files organized in the user folder...although I am kinda old-school and keep a lot of stuff in folders on desktop. I guess with system 10, i am not really sure what else to do to maintain it?
 
should i physically drag fonts from my font folder to the disabled folder...or should i do it via font book (which is the slowest of the slow).
 
1 way I know of to counter the font issue if it is indeed the fonts....

After you remove them, try putting in like 50 at a time. Then open up your Photoshop. Close it and drag another 50 into the fonts folder, or Fonts manager if you use one.

I hope it helps.
 
Flying Meat, 10 GB is an average virtual memory size for OS X. Yours would be about right for OS 9, but I've never seen anything that small on any system running X.
As to the number of fonts fonts Jennie has, that's about forty times more than I personally have on my system, and fonts are known to cause issues on OS X, especially if something becomes corrupted. Along with the suggestions from others to disable fonts and test the result, I'd also suggest clearing the font caches. This free application ought to assist with that: http://homepage.mac.com/jpietry/apps/fontnuke/
 
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