usability

theed

Registered
thinking about it a bit, I can't really come up with a reason for those menus to be away from the corners by that little margin, unless it's actually to keep you off of them by accident. I think that used to make sense, but I'm not sure it does any more.

The twitchy dock, is twitchy. yeah. And Windows still seems to win in the alt-tab implementation. My dock is on the right to preserve my precious vertical screen space. Something that Windows, MS Office, Photoshop 7 and Dreamweaver MX seem to think there's plenty of. I still think it's a precious commodity. And my dock is anchored to the bottom so at least my trash is to be found by motor memory.

On Windows I put the start bar on the side for the same reason, but by the selections being words, this tends to make my start bar rather thick, and wastes horizontal screen space. I'd still rather do that than waste my vertical space though.
 
i too, have the taskbar on vertically! I have it left hand side about 100px wide. that seems fine, and whenever i actually want to work, i just hit Auto-Hide, and it works fine! Coincedently, having it on the left situates the start button on the top left of the screen, and falls in line with Fryke's own comments :D

NeYo
 

MDA

Registered
Originally posted by ~~NeYo~~
MDA, "rubbing your face in it"? Like i said, i am no Apple Hater here, just a guy who is far more familar with the "dark side", and to some people what i was demonstrating to them brought some good points to air, so no, i wasn't "showing off" or anything like that, just bring valid points to the topic. If you too have things to bring up, thats cool, but like many already said, we don't need "why is windows so dumb", we are all mature, and can use Diplomacy, amidst conversation! :D

NeYo
Oh my god. Okay drop my reference to Windows being dumb since it seems people are way to sensitive to an operating system, not a person mind you, being called dumb. I do find it incredibly irritating that Windows doesn't resize it's windows the same way that the Mac OS does.

MDA
 

cellfish

Depressed as hell
In response to window resizing. As much as I like the Mac, I do enjoy the way Windows' maximize feature actually maximizes the window to take the full screen, not 3/4 of the screen like Mac. That's my opinion.
 

theed

Registered
it's funny, because it's just a completely different desired workflow. The original Mac OS X demo had the Windows style maximize button, Jobs was trying to hype it up and all. Mac users generally hated it and it was removed. It's technologically possible, it was actively fought by the community.

I have heard people make statements of hatred both ways about Macs free floating window lifestyle, and Windows(tm) windows inside of other windows approach. But the full screen thing is apparently just totally anti macintosh. Way too many mac users hate full screen mode.

In reference to the dock and UI ... the dock does some neat things, but it's UI is not terribly smooth, and it doesn't really comply to the UI that drove the original MacOS. The same UI guidelines that are largely adhered to by the OS today, but not completely or really consistently. A lot of the inconsistency with Mac apps now can be directly attributed to adopting the DeFacto Windoid standards. Some are good, some are bad. The end result is that the Mac OS becomes a little more familiar to Windows users, and a little less intuitive to those who have never used a computer before. Considering the numbers of new users vs. switchers, this focus makes market sense for Apple. It is also implicitly straying away from the idealistic UI design concepts that drove the original macintosh both into greatness, and into near extinction.

Anyway, the Dock adopts auto hiding, single click launching, right click control of applications, a listing of open applications that you can drag things to, always in plain view, and is movable. Pretty much everything that runs away from MacOS UI guidelines are adopted Windows standards. Like the filename.ext naming convention. Yuck. That's a windows evil adopted by the masses. Not all of these things are bad, and making users learn one thing rather than two things is a good thing in its own right, even if we're making them learn something that's arbitrary and ill-suited to the task. I'm happy to see the OSes converging. What OS X needs is a Finder that as threaded and snappy as Windows explorer, while retaining the smarts to not require manual refresh. :)

And once again, anyone who can't admit that their OS sucks in some manner is deluded, and serves no purpose in an intellectual debate.
 

fryke

Moderator
Staff member
Mod
Robotguy said: " Although Fryke advocates Apple's design guidelines as a more logical alternative to Windows, Apple has obviously broken it's own GUI regiment. This indicates that there really are no set rules for GUI design. As Windows has become the standard, users' motor behavior is adapting to Windows GUI. It is in our best interests to adopt any features that make our computing experience more enjoyable. If these features happen to be on the Windows platform, does it really matter?"

You're right there. But we don't have to copy the BAD things, surely, so I don't want menus inside windows, for example.

I, too, think that the Dock isn't a very good example for UID, so I guess it would be good of Apple to improve it or replace it at some time.
 

MDA

Registered
Originally posted by cellfish
In response to window resizing. As much as I like the Mac, I do enjoy the way Windows' maximize feature actually maximizes the window to take the full screen, not 3/4 of the screen like Mac. That's my opinion.
I can't think of a situation when I'd want a window to open full screen. I see Windows users constantly resizing a window after they've opened it because it is full screen and in the way of other windows. If you watch a PC user open a window on a Mac you'll notice that out of habit they resize the window for no reason. With the Mac OS adjusting the window size isn't nearly as necessary or time consuming.

MDA
 

Langley

Registered
Is this the Essay thread?;)

Short and sweet. I network XP and 10.2.2 together and to me it seems seemless. I get the best of both worlds! Yaaaaaaaaa!:) Finally
 
Originally posted by MDA
I can't think of a situation when I'd want a window to open full screen. I see Windows users constantly resizing a window after they've opened it because it is full screen and in the way of other windows. If you watch a PC user open a window on a Mac you'll notice that out of habit they resize the window for no reason. With the Mac OS adjusting the window size isn't nearly as necessary or time consuming.

MDA
i only really use Maxmized Windows on Internet Explorer Windows, i am reading a page, so i have it maximized, if i wish to switch another window, i minimize it, or Alt Tab it, or something like that.

Langley, Yea i network XP Pro and X.2.2 and it is sweet, RDC is Helpful too, although it crashes a lot!

NeYo
 

cellfish

Depressed as hell
I see a few faults in the Mac operating system. But the fact remains that I would love to sell my PC, Office XP and Windows XP with it and get myself a flatscreen iMac. I'll sacrifice my NHL 2003, but at least I'll have something nice to look at (crisp image).

Andre
 

theed

Registered
Originally posted by fryke
I, too, think that the Dock isn't a very good example for UID, so I guess it would be good of Apple to improve it or replace it at some time.
Please stop using UID ... it looks too much like IUD. I'll let you figure out what that is. ;-)

glad to hear XP and X.2 work well together. My dad should be moving from ME to XP soon, and it should make networking between his PC and my mom's iMac easy enough for them to actually use.
 

MDA

Registered
Originally posted by ~~NeYo~~
i only really use Maxmized Windows on Internet Explorer Windows, i am reading a page, so i have it maximized, if i wish to switch another window, i minimize it, or Alt Tab it, or something like that.
NeYo
In Internet Explorer on the Mac you just hold down the option key while clicking on the resize button to open it full screen. That does come in handy. I was talking about Finder windows.

MDA
 
Originally posted by MDA
In Internet Explorer on the Mac you just hold down the option key while clicking on the resize button to open it full screen. That does come in handy. I was talking about Finder windows.

MDA
Oh OK! << takes note >> ...Yea, i can't see the point in maxmized Finder / Explorer Windows neither!

Neyo
 

MDA

Registered
Originally posted by ~~NeYo~~
Oh OK! << takes note >> ...Yea, i can't see the point in maxmized Finder / Explorer Windows neither!

Neyo
Good, then we finally agree on something.

MDA
 
Originally posted by MDA
Good, then we finally agree on something.

MDA
Yes, i guess so! ... now i have to convince you XP isn't as bad as you think! ... i still don't understand why no-one see's my point about being able to do actiosn without even looking at the screen, we talk of motor memory, this is like a progression, Because you know where it is, and also you can get there that little bit Quicker! ... i have to say i quite like how you can click and hold menu's on X, rather than hit menu's with a click, seems a little weird, but i am learning!

any little tips then MDA?! ...after all, i am pretty much a "n00b" :p

NeYo
 

fryke

Moderator
Staff member
Mod
neyo: i DID understand that. that's how i always find the menu bar on top. or apple-w for closing windows etc... it's the same for the Mac really, only other things are in focus...
 
Top