usability

theed

Registered
is that a red line through the Print This Picture option in your screen shot above? If so, what does that mean? Aren't those contextual menus? If something isn't available, isn't it just not there? Or rather, on the previous page?
 

edX

mac shaman
As far as that touch of a woman thing... um... as much as I'm trying to be a kinder, gentler MacLuv, I don't think I can help you in that department...
oh, so you'll blow me kisses, but not theed, huh?
:p
 
Originally posted by theed
is that a red line through the Print This Picture option in your screen shot above? If so, what does that mean? Aren't those contextual menus? If something isn't available, isn't it just not there? Or rather, on the previous page?
Hey, yes it is a Red Line, but it doesn't represent what you thought it does. I admit, it looks like who you, yourself interpreted it, but infact, its just apart of the styling in the "Common Tasks" section of the Window ... See how the red line moves RIGHT accross the Window, past the JPEG Preview?!

Here it is again, in the "My Music Folder"



NeYo

Oh, and they aren't Contextual Menu's. Think of the Window as like a HTML page divided by Frames, there's a left frame, then a top frame, and the bottom with Files in, they are very dynamic, and alter upon almost every click (the top frame is not always there, dependant on the folder you are in, or whether a file is selected).

Edit:

You can turn off the Preview Pane (the part above the Files) Via the View Menu (in the same way you'd select Icons/Tiles/Thumbnails)

And common tasks (the left pane) can be ditched via Folder Options (Control Panel)

 

theed

Registered
So the red line is just there, far more obvious in this screen shot. Thanks.

The major menu sections change upon selection as appropriate, but the individual items in them are just there, not really contextual based on availability. Just menus that give options supposedly reasonable for the item you've selected?

Hmmm, quasi-contextual. Useful if it has what you want, I'm sure. But does it help you find what you want if it isn't there? I've seen windows play this game a bit, and I never really understood what qualified the list of choices that showed up.

Oh, and holy lack of screen space. 3/4 of your folder view is showing something other than the contents of the folder. How long till they start selling the screen space in your folder to advertisers? :-/
 
Originally posted by theed
So the rod line is just there, far more obvious in this screen shot. Thanks.

The major menu sections change upon selection as appropriate, but the individual items in them are just there, not really contextual based on availability. Just menus that give options supposedly reasonable for the item you've selected?

Hmmm, quasi-contextual. Useful if it has what you want, I'm sure. But does it help you find what you want if it isn't there? I've seen windows play this game a bit, and I never really understood what qualified the list of choices that showed up.
Umm, as you can see, windows does decide what is appropiate, as per file. Those options, as far as i am aware cannot be changed by the user, so yea, it could be a bit of pain! It isn't too bad, you can see in the My Music Folder, it does have a lot of relative links for commands, and applications (which is new in LH) which relate.

But Honestly, i DON'T use Common tasks. They, for me offer commands and navigational purposes i can get to by other means as quickly. Via keyboard and other toolbar buttons etc. In my opinion, i think the common tasks are more relative to newer or less "experienced" users. People who may not think to look in for "Copy" or "Paste" in the "Edit" menu. Instead, such commands reside plain to see. Do you agree?!

Neyo
 

edX

mac shaman
personally, and i'm just going on neyo's photos here, i think it looks cheesy, commercial and takes up way too much real estate. important things are too small and stock photo art is huge. it looks more like an ad than a product. which in a way is what you're saying it should look like Macluv. but i don't buy it. i think we still are amused by an ad the first time or two we see it while becoming sick of it quickly after that. You know my 13 year old doesn't watch the same movie 50 times anymore like he did when he was 6. with maturity we learn to discriminate and hopefully your nephews will too. os x is art. art that will look dated with time no doubt, but at least i'm not looking at some stranger with headphones when i want to get into my files. (and i'm assuming neyo hasn't had this long enough to have bastardized it like he does everything else :D )
 

ex2bot

Registered Bot
I think I'm contributing some new ideas here (although I could be wrong - this is a looong thread):

XP issues:

Ugly = Luna

I put a shortcut of the C drive on the desktop, so that I could access it without going through My Computer (or whatever). Often, when I tried to select it from a save file window, my filename would be replaced by "C drive.lnk". Awful (also true for other flavors of Windows)

Start menu - annoying, silly, accessing programs is a pain, must be skillful with the mouse.

Close window button on the RIGHT side of window - Who was the idiot who thought that one up? The original close window button (on the left) requires a double-click

Crappy window refresh - I click on "Get mail" from I Explorer and the contents of the explorer window are left on the screen until Outlook refreshes. UGLY UGLY UGLY UGLY - OS X refresh is soooo much more professional.

Crappy window refresh part 2 - I minimize a window and the desktop is drawn on the screen starting from the top and going down erasing the minimized window as it goes. UGLY UGLY UGLY (true for other versions of Windoze)

Messenger will not go away - Messenger will not go away. I had to rename the program's folder. What the HELL? Oops, not an interface issue

Control panels - I can't ever FIND anything and I've been using Windoze since 2.0! One example: the advanced tab for Internet properties has a gazillion stupid check boxes for stuff they couldn't find places for. Oh, I love options. But how about organizing them? No, they are not all well organized. No, they aren't. No, really. They could be simplified. It would save time trying to find controls.

I could go on and on and on . . . and those are just the interface issues.
 

MDA

Registered
What I see in the screen captures of Longhorn are the same things that have always bothered me about Windows. Microsoft confuses giving someone 5000 ways of doing something with making things easier for the end user, and Microsoft gives you the list of ways rather than let you decide how you want to do something. Apple has always tried to give the user the ability of doing things the way they want to do them and I've always really appreciated the lack of interference on the part of the operating system. As for the OS being more visually stimulating, I have to agree with Ed Spruiell on this, it's just more commercial not more appealing. I suppose this is all pretty subjective though.

MDA
 
Guys, the same Point had been brought up twice now. Summing that up, it'd be "CHOICE"

See, now, here's TWO Shots For the same folder "My Pictures".





OK, now whats WRONG with CHOICE? Why should a user not have many ways to represent the data?! Why should they be stuck with plain RAW Data (ie Merely filenames) in the age of Kickass GPU's and Comparably (x86) KICKASS CPU's

(Sorry guys that was LOW, i didn't mean it, don't kick my butt, i HAD TO! :p)

Personally, despite what some of you guys say yourselves, CHOICE will ALWAYS be a good thing, whether we talk OS System wide, or buying a Ford over a Honda!? At the same time, like i said previously, in my opinion the choice is reflective upon the potential end user. By that i expect this more graphical presentation to be used by family's, newer user's to "XP / Longhorn". In my opinion, that view there is FAR more "welcoming" to me, that /user/neyo/pictures ever is (****! i almost sound like i know what i am talking ABOUT!!! :D )

Yea, So the problem with choice kinda confuses me, how can it be bad?!

Addresing some points here, ummmm...

Ugly = Luna
Agreed, most definately. And Plex is not much better, personally, i like plex in certain ways, i don't mind the taskbar, but its the windows that aren't right, and at this stage, the system cannot really have that much blue in it (although i am sure a LOT more in Longhorn will develop to allow more diversity.

Here's more shots, to give a reflection of what i am saying, tell me whatcha think of "Plex" :rolleyes:

Desktop Pic Here


Look at the "File / Edit" Menu's, black and darkish blue?!
Start menu - annoying, silly, accessing programs is a pain, must be skillful with the mouse.
In what way do you find it "silly or Annoying"? I agree, skill is kinda required to get that "all Programs" to popup, i think that needs moving somewhere else. Besides that, i don't think all too much is wrong with it, it really is NOW, the "start" for your computer, your one way into everywhere now. Whether thats a good thing is down to the user i guess, but once more, you can always set it into Classic mode, for which the typical Win 2k start menu will be used, as does the desktop icons. (Here's that "choice" thing once more :D)

Crappy window refresh part 2 - I minimize a window and the desktop is drawn on the screen starting from the top and going down erasing the minimized window as it goes. UGLY UGLY UGLY (true for other versions of Windoze)
I know what your reffering to, the instance for which it refreshes / redraws on like a horizontal line?! Yea, that "DID" Suck, but i've NEVER seen that in XP. In earlier versions, most definately, but not since XP. Maybe that was a Video Card issue?!?
(oh, and yes, it is NASTY!! ...And slow!)

Messenger will not go away - Messenger will not go away. I had to rename the program's folder. What the HELL? Oops, not an interface issue
Yea, i agree totally, a LOT of people have said the same thing, it can be a little "in your face", and it DID take some disabling. I think now (Don't hold me to this) you can remove it from the system if you so wish. The SP1 update definately allows you to get rid of IE6 and WMP8, so i assume you can get rid of that too. Within the options menu in Messenger, you can disable it starting up automatically, which does stop it being so "in your face!", is that what you was after?!

Control Panels, Yea, i agree, there's ALOT to digest, and it can take some time to work where stuff is, but in time you pick it up. Maybe they will address this, with that Avalon technology, they've already changed the Display Properties Control Applet, you guys have seen the modified one, right?

** the Task Shelf **

I think this is pretty cool, and like macLuv mentioned, microsoft are using XML and .Net tech alot, to bring some cool things together, and here's an example, i think at this stage, its just like a "demo" of the kind of things possible, i imagine M$ will try shoving all those Crappy MSN Features into the TaskShelf (like MSN Explorer), but as long as you can still add and remove tiles from it, it'll be ok i guess. Merging the Taskbar and Taskshelf is quite cool, although at this time, it DOESN'T have a place for Minimized windows, (the joys of an M3 Alpha build), but i am sure that will come along in time!

TaskShelf


opinions guys?! :D

NeYo:confused:
 

fryke

Moderator
Staff member
Mod
There's nothing wrong with choice in viewing a directory. But I think the preview in Mac OS X is perfect for stuff like that. Because if I want to *work* with the file, I'll open it after seeing the preview... And for a bunch of pictures, Preview.app is perfect, too, I guess...

So, no, I don't want the Finder to add things like that...
 
Originally posted by fryke
There's nothing wrong with choice in viewing a directory. But I think the preview in Mac OS X is perfect for stuff like that. Because if I want to *work* with the file, I'll open it after seeing the preview... And for a bunch of pictures, Preview.app is perfect, too, I guess...

So, no, I don't want the Finder to add things like that...
Yea, i see what your saying Fryke, but like Preview.app, XP has Windows Picture viewer (or whatever) and does the same thing as preview, but i always thought it was good to cut down the amount of stuff the user had to do. Let the computer do this, show me that etc. Having options doesn't inhibit you. I guess where i am headed with this is, what would kids prefer?! Your mum? (dependant i guess, upon her computer skills) i aplogise for stereotyping there, but you get my meaning!

and i'm assuming neyo hasn't had this long enough to have bastardized it like he does everything else
LOL Ed, i didn't really notice the guy, well i did, but in reality terms, i don't like all this common task crap in MY Face, its my PC, and i know how i organize my files / folders, and so i don't need such prompts all the time. Fair enough from time to time i might turn them on, if i feel it may help me scour the directory for files or whatever, but "usually" i am in Classic Explorer views, so i am free of that dude with the Earphones!! :D :D Phew!!

Neyo

 
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