War and Religion

Originally posted by chevy
If it's already written where is my freedom ?

If it's already written why should I fight (even for freedom) ?
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Ahh, yes, pre-destiny and freedom. If your every move has been pre-determined, then what difference does whether or not you have "true" freedom make? The key here is not whether or not "true" freedom exists, it's our ability (or lack thereof) to find this information out. If this information is NOT determinable, then individual freedom and predestiny are irrelevant.

Ask yourself this, if you "knew" that everything has been predetermined, how would you change the way you act if there were no way to determine what that future was? Without this knowledge how would you be able to differentiate between the two?

The "I'm not gonna do anything if everything is predetermined" way of thinking makes absolutely no logical sense at all.
 
Originally posted by ScottW
The big struggle in the middle-east is about Jesus. The jews missed the boat. Jesus came already, but they just didn't get it. They are still waiting on Him to return in glory, descending from Heaven. Christian's likewise, look forward to His "return" not His "first coming" as the Jews will see it.
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It's too bad that this forum is being used to criticize the religion of others, especially by its founder. I'm always eager to understand the beliefs of others, but that post amounts to proselytization.
 
i'm sorry Larry. i don't see how Scott is being critical of jews or Judaism. it is a pretty common tenet or assumption of christianity that the jews had their chance and didn't take it. in fact, christianity can only be realistically examined in the context of it's relationship to judaism. the same could be said for islam as well btw.

again, i am neither and would like to think i see this objectively. still it is sometimes hard to fully state one's own beliefs without sounding self righteous or proselytizing. let's try to show everyone a little leeway here and not get too critical of anyone's views unless they condemn someone else's directly. i assure, anyone who crosses that line will have their comments removed.
 
Oh, Im not attacking Jews by any means... I am just stating, from a Christian perspective, factual information.
 
Originally posted by ScottW
The big struggle in the middle-east is about Jesus. The jews missed the boat. Jesus came already, but they just didn't get it. They are still waiting on Him to return in glory, descending from Heaven. Christian's likewise, look forward to His "return" not His "first coming" as the Jews will see it.

Ed and Scott, I do agree there is strictly no attack towards Jews here. But may I point out those two red bits which I found not very well formulated.

Of course you must not throw stones when living in a glass house: I am myself sometimes (some will say most of the time) very awkward in my posts. But still, I think that those bits may have been misinterpreted by Larry, this is why I allow myself to point your attention at them.
 
Originally posted by edX
let's try to show everyone a little leeway here and not get too critical of anyone's views unless they condemn someone else's directly. i assure, anyone who crosses that line will have their comments removed.
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I'll show all the leeway in the world. I wasn't suggesting that anyone's comments be removed.

But to say "The Jews missed the boat" IS a condemnation of someone else's views, and it was troubling to see it here.

Not forbidden, just troubling.
 
Stick out your toes and I will step on them. That is why it is good to wear shoes around here. The truth hurts sometimes. Im not about to whisper sweet nothings in someones ear so that I don't "condemn" their view point.

But, honestly, I am just stating the obvious, they did miss the boat. A bad paraphrase of the Bible. :)
 
Scott: From your point of view, maybe. Maybe they did 'miss the boat' as you say, but obviously the Jews don't think they did, otherwise they would probably be Christians, wouldn't they?
Therefore, it is probably best that you don't say such things lest they be misinterpreted.
 
Originally posted by dlloyd
Scott: From your point of view, maybe. Maybe they did 'miss the boat' as you say, but obviously the Jews don't think they did, otherwise they would probably be Christians, wouldn't they?
Therefore, it is probably best that you don't say such things lest they be misinterpreted.
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Uhmmmm... okay? And who is making this a personal issue? I am sorry but it is not my job to tip-toe around everyone's view point. I am sorry ddlloyd... but your comments about my comments offended me, therefore I think you should not make them at all.

In fact, I am offended by your ANTI-WAR statements on our title, because I am anti anti-war. Therefore based upon your statement and others in this thread, it should be removed?

Okay, lets shut down the board, how dare anything anyone says offend anyone else.... oh, Im hurt.

No one is stopping anyone from expressing thier personal views, and as Ed agreed, my comments where not personal attacks, but my view point. If I think the sky is red, I should be allowed to think that, even if I am wrong. You are free to express your view points and to give "proof" that it's blue.

Scott
 
Scott. Respectfully, I will say again: I don't think your comments should be removed. (Even if it wasn't your board!)

I guess the issue of censorship comes up a lot on message boards, which perhaps is why some have leapt to the conclusion that I was implying that the statement should be removed.

My original point was to let you know that some of your statements, to me, are offensive, because it discounts others' religious beliefs.

Your subsequent statements let me know quite clearly that you don't care. That's fine. It's not your agenda.

So I can only say that I spoke MY mind, and leave it at that.

I do know that we all have one very deeply held belief in common -- we all worship the same insanely great computer.
 
larry98765,

Oh, I think what really annoys me more than anything... is the "anti-war" protestors. :) I call it the bandwagon approach. You made the comment you did, then wham... here comes two more people who have no real clue... but think... ah-ha... I stand for that, I don't know why, but I do.

I listened to a 17 year old girl on the radio, trying to give her reasoning for protesting the war, trying to debate an Iraqi who was for it. She had no clue or real reason for jumping on the bandwagon she was... and the Iraqi dude, man, he knew exactly, he we was speaking from experience.

I would bet $$$ that 95% of those who show up at a anti-war debate, don't really know all the details... they are only followers, with nothing better to do.

This thread was functioning fine... until... some un-named people decided to step in and defend something they don't know about. Heck, they don't even know if your a Jew or not, I don't either. Unless you say you are, Im not going to assume you are.

This is what frustrates me more about discussions on this board and others, is not the people w/ different views, the people who have no views and adopt them as they show up.

Scott
 
Originally posted by ScottW
A bad paraphrase of the Bible. :)
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Maybe reformulation would solve it all ? :)

I sincerely do not think Scott was delibately trying to offend anyone. And if his opinion offends some people, it may be his right, as far as the basic board rules are not trespassed. After all, many opinions are offense to some people.

I also think ScottW already apologized in some way by calling his own paraphrase a 'bad' one. In my humble opinion, gentlemen :)

Don't you share this last point of view ?
 
Yes larry, good point! :)
Scott: May I respectfully point out that there is a difference between my comments and yours: Mine mearly state my views, nowhere do they condemn yours.
Your statements, on the other hand, appear to 'put down' the Jews because they, in your opinion, 'missed the boat'. I don't know for sure, but I think they probably have valid reason why they do not accept Jesus as their 'Messiah'. Keep in mind that Jesus was, in fact, a Jew himself.
 
Round & Round We Go...

:rolleyes:

Where we will stop... no one knows.

Once again... my previous post stands proven.
 
The religions are like underwear ... they both seem as sophisticated when you show the others what you have too publicly. I don't mind anyone believing in any religion, as long as what I believe or don't believe in, isn't being told "wrong". Live and let live. And the same for about all in politics (not just war) :p
 
Unless you believe in the true messiah, you are all wrong. :)

There... did I offend anyone?
 
Larry et al- what i'd really like to hear are your beliefs and how they pertain to the war. offered not as rebuttal but as insight. While i would agree with Scott that everyone has the right to present any proofs of disagreement, i have asked that we not take that approach with this thread. 'proof' in a religious/spiritual context is a hard thing to offer. as of yet, science hasn't found much of it in this arena.

i don't want anyone to be afraid to post here because it will open them to attacks and being forced to defend their position. we have plenty of threads already going for that approach. keep in mind that most religions (not all) start with the assumption that theirs is the one true way. we aren't here to debate whether that is true of any of them. but no one should be kept from expressing that as part of their belief either. better to have faith and confidence in one's beliefs than to worry about what others believe in contrast to them.
 
Originally posted by edX
let's just remember to keep this a discussion. it is not a debate. this thread is not about being right or wrong. it's about understanding how each of us applies our core belief system, i.e. their religious/spiritual beliefs, to the war and is able to reconcile those beliefs with the results of war. please refrain from stating one's views in terms of another's views being wrong. challenging or asking for clarrification of someone's beliefs is ok as long one does it without attacking the other person for having a different perspective.
one of the first steps in human relationship is gaining understanding of our individual differences. my own feeling is that none of us have a monopoly on 'truth', but that each of us would be lost without some set of truths to guide us. Better to understand another's truths than to judge them without knowing how they arrived at them.
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What followed your remark is what I tried to avoid... It's not you, it's just that speaking about things as sensible as religion on an open forum is quite difficult. But if we once have the opportunity to have a beer together, then I've no objection to go into further details about what I think and how I came to this type of thinking, and I would listen to your path...
 
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