What religion are you?

To what faith do you consider yourself a member?

  • Christianity

  • Islam

  • Buddhism

  • Gnostic/Agnostic

  • Pagan

  • Santeria

  • Hinduism

  • Judaism

  • Other

  • Atheist/none

  • Results of the 'test' in http://selectsmart.com/RELIGION/ (specify)

Results are only viewable after voting.
Thanks Jadey for the reference. I'd look into that if it became a nagging unanswered question. At the moment I feel content but am still open to new perspectives which can take effect on my belief.

Ed, I think it was one of my twirling moments. ;)
It was an edit after I had written the body of the post. Notice how I mangled the sentence tense. I was sloppy and a little tired as well.
The word 'Me' seemed to sum nicely what I was about to explain and was rhetorical for the negative definition of selfish. But you've hit a particularly astute observation of how I tend to not associate myself wholly with any particular group. A recurring theme in my life from childhood to present.
 
Originally posted by themacko
Hey Izzy, in your sig you have a quote by Third Day, is that the Christian music group? One of my friends' father is a pastor and we ended up going to a concer by them last week, then I saw them on ABC last night. They actually weren't too bad... (pointless post, I know, but I'm a bit bored)
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Yep...that's the group Scott...they are my fav. I'm a member of their message boards and am pretty much what you'd call a "superfan"...LOL.

I'm going to a concert of theirs on the 11th of April and I can't wait because I managed to snag a backstage pass and pre-show backstage tour! :D

ED - This view holds that when you die you go to sleep...similar to what Jesus said about lazarus: "Our fiend lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up." We don't believe there is any sort of purgatory...once dead you simply rest in the ground until the second coming. I can get more into detail if you are interested in knowing the whole belief and it's basis. PM me if you are interested and I can give you a longer answer.
 
so Izzy, would one 'dream' in this state? of is one simply not conscious of anything?

i would prefer not to pm you, but i would like to know more. another question that seems to arise is what happens when a body has long since deteriorated? i mean, it isn't just lying in the ground anymore. or cremated? or blown up in an accident?

i know, i'm asking a lot of questions about a very complex thing. but give as much detail as you feel comfortable with. this is not a challenge to your beliefs or anything like that. just my personal fasciantion with religions and the core beliefs they are made of.
 
That's cool Ed, I'm the same way...i've always been interested in finding out what others believe and why they believe it. Gimmie some time to give you a well thought out answer...I have finals coming up so I'm gonna be studying, so don't hold your breath. I'll get an explanation up here as soon as I can :)
 
I consider myself a "free thinking humanist." but only when I have to. I don't like labelling my beliefs cuz all that does is limit them. ;-)
 
Izzy - good luck on the finals. i haven't held my breath for a dangerously long time since second grade when i managed to pass out and hit my head on the bench while showing off in the lunch line:p
i'll be here when you get back.

UTT - I understand your reluctance to put labels on your beliefs. Labels are only helpful as a common language to help others understand more complex beliefs with less words. only you can ever actually limit your beliefs. Labels just limit other people's initial understanding of them. They also tend to include or exclude a person from certain other groups. but I think that is more of a manmade defense than anything else. here in this poll, they are just used to identify what belief system, if any, that a person considers part of their own identity. Humanist sounds ok as an identity but i would have think it fails to id what you see as your relationship with the unknown. unless you are like klink and this is just another form of atheism.;)
 
sometimes labels mean nothing ;)
Take a look at me -- greek orthodox, probably one of the more traditional branches of christianity out there yet I dont practice. I am orthodox though.

even language, or people/nationalities as a label dont mean a thing at times. Some of my best friendships out there aren't with greeks, they are with my vietnamese co-workers.

One thing I do believe though is that a label, if you choose to attach one to yourself, it does not limit your thinking or options. A label is just a label, nothing more. Think about it this way. You go to the supermarket and you swap the labels of 2 cans, a Green Giant pea can and a Green Giant pineapple can. When you swap the labels does tha mean that the content changes ? nope ;) -- same thing with thought :)


Admiral
 
Wow another deeply personal thread. I just finished replying to the abortion one. I call myself christian, but I do beleive everything in the religion. I think that religion is more figurative rather then literal. Everyone is of one religion when it comes down to it.
 
Our understanding of the universe is one of the more important concepts that we as intelligent beings need to come to grips with. This is important because not knowing (or having a belief) about why we are here and what our place is can lead to some extreme anxiety. Given that, the fact that we accept each other given our different beliefs is both encouraging and remarkable. Religious belief spark wars because people naturally don't like when others challenge their beliefs (even if it is just practicing their own). Human nature would have us want everyone to believe as we do to add validity to our beliefs.

My personal beliefs are most likely different from most of yours (mainly because I reached my independently of outside influences), and in turn are a little more difficult to explain. My belief takes into account that we are 4-dimensional creatures that exist within a Minkowski 4-space. Who and what we are is the collection of events that make us up from our earliest beginnings to the moment of our deaths. The collection of events is the time line of our lives from moment to moment. Each moment of us has some realization of the moments that came before, but none of the moments that follow. It can go even further when you consider that everything that you experience is actually past events by the time your mind has actually realized them.

Consequently, each of us can be represented as a string of events in Minkowski 4-space, and the length of each string is the length of our lives. This length is not really all that different from someone's height or weight, and people living in different periods are separated by a distance that can be thought of as not all that different from that of a geographical separation. For example Oppenheimer lived before my time, but he also lived in places I have not been. The fact that he and I had never connected may not have changed if we had lived at the same time. Another example would be my Grandfather, who died a few years ago. He and I were quite close, but now he is gone, but that doesn't mean that we are any less close. Our lives are still (and are always going to be) touching at the events that we shared. Other than the fact that I can not contact him, the separation is really not that different from the separation geographically that I currently have with my Grandmother.

An important factor of this is that we can only effect future and only realize past. On the small scale this causal existence makes us feel more aware of ourselves and our place in our environment than we really are. Taken to a larger scale, we lose the ability to communicate to a significant group of people who existence has effected us so much, that group being those of the past. Given this, I have taken to morning the communications gulf rather than the passing of people.

One of the interesting aspects of this is the ethical consequences of being aware of how we exist. Once you realize that you are the collection of events that make up your life (more to the point, you are the choices you make while dealing with those events), everything you do becomes very important in defining who you are. If you hurt someone, you can't remove that action from yourself. If you steal, that again becomes part of who you are. With no deity to ask forgiveness, and no way to remove the unwanted choices (though you must have wanted them if you did them) from your life, ethics plays a central role. Given that, I have adopted Kant's philosophy of duty and reason (but that is yet a longer subject).
 
Originally Posted by One Mr. Ed Spruiell
UTT - I understand your reluctance to put labels on your beliefs. Labels are only helpful as a common language to help others understand more complex beliefs with less words. only you can ever actually limit your beliefs. Labels just limit other people's initial understanding of them. They also tend to include or exclude a person from certain other groups. but I think that is more of a manmade defense than anything else. here in this poll, they are just used to identify what belief system, if any, that a person considers part of their own identity. Humanist sounds ok as an identity but i would have think it fails to id what you see as your relationship with the unknown. unless you are like klink and this is just another form of atheism.
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You're absolutely right, that's how I meant it when I said labels limit. Probably could have been more clear ;)
As far as the unknown goes, I don't believe in the idea of a God who lives in the sky and watches our actions and judges what we do. I do believe in some sort of "higher power," because, as scientific as I may be, some stuff still goes unexplained. However I believe this higher power to be a nature kind of thing, as opposed to a spiritual one. :cool:
 
Cloudnine - no wonder i find so much of value in many of your posts. i too would classify myself as an existentialist. however existentialists come in all flavors and religions. This seems at time to be a basic rift among existentialists - is diety allowed? As a pagan and an existentialist, i tend to say yes. my own feelings that existentialism neither supports nor defends the existence of something 'higher' than ourselves, but simply seeks to provide means that we might seek answers that give meaning to our lives. Which also fits nicely with the Buddha's take on diety as well.

Greg - let me se if we can't clarrify part of what you said even more because i find the seperation of nature and spirituality to be confusing. this is because nature plays such a big part in my spirituality.But if i understand what you mean, you are saying that there are laws to the natural order of things. and that these laws operate regardless of whether we are aware of them and their source. but because they work in some orderly fashion, like the binding and structure of molecules, we could know and measure them if we only had the correct instruments for doing so.Does that sound about right? and hence they are not part of some 'being' but of a metaphysical formula that holds the universe together.
 
RacerX - i think Cloudnine and I both would agree with your precept about needing to find meaning in our existence and the potential anxiety involved in not knowing. or at least in not coming to terms with not knowing.;)

I would argue that while we do tend to want others to agree with us, that is not the major cause of religous wars. Wars are almost always over limited resources. Ideas are just ways of seperating who deserves those resources. Once a war is started, the religious unity can be used to bolster moral and bring a sense of 'being right' to ending the lives of others.

I know nothing of Minkowski 4 space, but this idea that we are nothing but a string of events is a very old Buddhist one. It has been discussed at great length under the larger heading of causality and the idea that at some point there was an event that had no cause. One of the great evidences of modern science is that we know that our cells die and replace themselves on a regular basis. We are literally not the same person we were 10 years ago. Tied into this is the idea that the collection of past actions will determine the future, so that the past, present and future are inevitably intertwined. In some sense making up one dimension. It is said that we can know the past and future when we are in the right place in the present. Which brings me to a question since you suppose there is no way to know the future. Yet we have considerable evidnce that psychic abilities do exist and that some elements of the future become known to some individuals. So if it were proved that psychic phenomenon exists, would this change your point of view any?

As for the last part about having no deity to ask forgiveness of, this is also a very pagan belief. When your Gods and Goddesses demand personal responsibility, then one must take that responsability. There is no one who will fix your karma for you. Along with this one must learn to live with one's failures and not be crushed by them. all people fail. One must be able to forgive oneself in order to move forward from those failures. for me this means learning the lesson from them, rather than simply going back and starting the same mistake again as if one had a clean slate.
 
by my friend Ed
Which brings me to a question since you suppose there is no way to know the future. Yet we have considerable evidnce that psychic abilities do exist and that some elements of the future become known to some individuals. So if it were proved that psychic phenomenon exists, would this change your point of view any?
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With evidence, that would make for an interesting study. It would be interesting if this is a true and natural phenomenon, if it were like the water flowing towards a water fall. If you watch a small stream of water moving smoothly along, it seem to have no sense of what is coming further down stream. But if you watch the water 1 to 2 meters from the water fall you start to see it get agitated (like it knows what is coming). The effect is explained by dynamics systems using chaos theory. If such a thing happened in space-time and people could read it, that would be something.

But then again there is the problem of time travel (even for information). The universe is a very different place than it was a when you started reading this post. The over all volume has change, your position relative to the rotation of the Earth has changed, the Earth's position orbiting the Sun has changed, and the Sun's position orbiting within the Milky Way has changed and so on. Given though factors, information moving backwards in time would have a hard time finding us at all.
 
racerX - my own understanding of how psychic phenomenon works is that it makes one aware of the potential results of a string of events that have been set in motion in the past and are uninfluenced in the present so that they lead to a certain future if conscious choices to change them are not taken. much like your water coming to a water fall, only by knowing which is the steep drop off and which the gentle cascade, the water which chooses one path will create a different series of events than the other water. There still is not one future, but many possible futures. knowledge of the possiblities helps one prepare for the choices.

and to kind of tie in with what i said to UTT, this may be a natural ability that we all have hardwired, some with more ability to use it than others. and we may simply not know how to locate and measure the internal devices used to control it. not something that is caused by some communication with a deity, but rather something along the lines of what you described - information or energy travelling both directions at once.

i guess i believe in psychic phenomenon having experienced it myself. that doesn't mean i know everything that is going to happen. the incredible amount of choices that we make everyday would be imposible to have advance awareness of. one could never be in the present with that much future to deal with. so this 'device' must have some sort of filter to only encode certain kinds of info.

I am not sure that the existence of such phenomenon needs to change anyones beliefs, but it does put a wrinkle into causality and connectivity/communication theories.
 
Another sun burnt out hours ago,
though wide awake you stay.
Last call for accomplishment,
you may yet seize this day.

Or perhaps cowering from tomorrow,
it could only bring more pain.
Finally a break from school or work,
so you know it's going to rain.

Smile, child, for tomorrow brings,
chance to begin anew.
See and listen a bit differently,
indulge a different view.

Smile, child, for life goes on,
overcoming frustration and strife.
Survival meaning so much more,
than just to stay alive.

When you look at those around you,
only hate and anger show.
Boisterous pride and selfishness,
try to make you feel so small.

Those people and their troubles,
seeking such far greater cause.
No moments aside for compromise,
you're irritated by the loss.

Tolerate those different, child,
for their problems all the same.
Juxtaposit will not teach,
understanding is the aim.

Tolerate the scornful, child,
a good soul has fallen ill.
Do only what you hold to be right,
know your strength of will.

Missing days long since past,
innocent carefree cheer,
Wishing return once small more,
draws a guilty tear.

Dwelling on events that brought,
so much anguish then.
The hasty reckless banter,
costing you a friend.

Look not to yesterday, child,
the here and now are all.
Bear down with your own two feet,
stand humble while also tall.

Look to your winnings, child,
learn from defeat and falsity.
Mistakes that led you to regret,
are bound to help you see.

Sadness begins to find you here,
this room away from home.
Feeling and unfeeling emotions,
uncertain and alone.

Doubts and inhibitions cloud,
the world beyond your door.
Life without purpose makes you,
wonder what it's for.

Hear me, child, for often overlooked,
is that we're even here at all.
Our existence is religion,
one both true and meaningful.

Hear me, child, for rarely felt,
is the power of being free.
To live, to love, to die,
creating dreams or destinies.
 
Ah, sweet diesm! What a wonder. Who would have thought that French enlightenment values would be most successful in the new world. I'm afraid that, even though I love Voltaire, I'm going to have to side with Diderot...

Originally posted by RacerX
So what do you think of Deism? Very popular with our founding fathers (even the ones who didn't actually believe but said they did to help their political careers). I like the idea that the only true connection to a deity is by studying that which was made by one... in other words a study of the natural sciences. Scientist can be some of the most preachy people if you get them started.
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You've been reading Ayn Rand again, haven't you Klink? If not, I think you'd really like her; *The Fountainhead* and *Atlas Shrugged*. You're basically espousing Objectivism...

Originally posted by Klink
I voted none but would have liked to vote for the Me.

I'm coming to an understanding I do things in life, in the ultimate, for selfish reasons.
I could love my mate. I would do this not only for her but ultimately for me. I could grow a friendship, fulfilling his or her needs for companionship, sharing in laughter and sorrow. Ultimately for me. I could adore and care for an animal, again for me. I could fight for the rights of the forests, once again, ultimately for me. I can procreate a child, love and cherish it, give it the guidance to live and be able to procreate for his or herself, ultimately for me.

I don't think I would be able to do any of these things without some ultimate rewards for me. Is being selfish truly a negative to live ones life as such? I'm inclined to think not.
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Cloud - did you write that? or is it from someone else? it is wonderful!! Thanks for sharing it with us:)
 
well, I will share one that i wrote and would like for Matt Larson to read. others might find something in it as well.

Jesus was a rambling, drifting rebel
with a smile and words of peace.
He found some friends with whom to talk
about his strange ideas and deeds.
Well, I don't know if he was God
but I know that he was real,
and all the things he talked about
are things i also feel.


an aside - a friend of mine who was Christian when I met him and is Pagan now once said "more of my Pagan friends act like Christians than my Christian friends do". I have always taken his statement to mean that how well we live up to some of the higher ideals found in many religions and which he had been raised on thru Christianity, has nothing to do with our labeled belief and our assoiciation with a certain group. It has more to do with how we put those beliefs into practice. Do we live them, or just talk them? No one is perfect, but some people do have a higher batting average than others.;)
 
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